Oh I feel it! My wonderful mare could be a handful. She was easily intimidated so a horseman wouldn’t have a problem, but a “stall cleaner” would most likely be afraid. I could imagine her doing her giraffe imitation followed by her kangaroo imitation. You’d have to catch it quick and shake the lead rope while making shshttshshtt noises. 
She’d settle down to her parade prance. But she never jerked the lead, stepped on your feet, etc. Still pretty scary when you’ve got 17h/1350lbs hopping along side of you.
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Fair enough. It was a blanket statement when I was actually thinking of a handful of conversations with a few specific individuals that I have had over the last few years. Those conversations fall close to what you describe hereabout the footing…
I will say, I don’t think everyone necessarily accepts it gracefully when a barn owner tells them things aren’t in the budget.
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You absolutely do not know that. That’s pure speculation on your part.
Speculation on a lot of issues seems to fly on several of these threads, provided it’s the mass approved speculation with the right narrative.
Sounds like Off Course is already getting off course.
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That’s awesome that you’ve had those kinds of conversations, but I will be frank - it’d be good if more people expressed their appreciation instead of just complaints.
Even when I was a boarder, the amount of complaints about minor issues were overwhelming. For instance, one of those little mushrooms that pop up overnight in warm climates popped up under a water bucket one time and the boarder threw an absolute sh*tfit that her stall wasn’t cleaned. To be clear - I didn’t own that barn, I was just there somewhat agog that it was an issue.
It is very difficult to run a barn in which everyone is happy. Because horses are difficult creatures to manage and they are so so destructive.
It may be that the vocal minority overwhelm anything positive, but when you’re working for peanuts it’s hard to hear the same people who question board prices complain about things that are totally adequate but just not as fancy as they’d prefer.
And yes, those are good standard responses but man does it become tiresome 
It seems that you’re objecting to the general vibe comments because you are appreciative. But not everyone is.
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Lol - sounds like one of mine who does a lovely piaffe when he wants in or out. Will he pull on you? No. Does it feel like you’re handling a giraffe on crack? Yes. Absolutely. 
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I think one other elephant in the room is that undocumented migrants work many low-pay, sometimes unpleasant, and often borderline dangerous jobs because they are undocumented.
Or, to put it another way, the government creates a class of people who will work for ultra-low wages by keeping them undocumented. Thus, there’s a way that employers in the U.S. directly benefit from the current laws that effectively make more people available to them who will demand less, in terms of wages, and who don’t have the legal standing to complain about the conditions of their employment.
What I’ve just said is not meant to disrespect barn owners, btw. Barn owners are, mostly, pretty small fish in this particular ocean. There are other employers who are far bigger fish.
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Barn owning IS hard, and makes barely any income. And most of us have pinched every penny to board a horse at some point. Most barn owners learned from those who came before them, rather than any rigorous, thoughtful training, and that included…mmm… shady labor practices of various sorts. Some of them knew/know better and can do it right, some of them probably don’t. Regardless of immigration status, too many people use 1099 or pay under the table to avoid workman’s comp and payroll taxes.
It sucks that people are expensive, when you need people, and that our health care system costs twice as much as everyone else’s and is tied to employment. If everyone simply got health care regardless of occupation or employer, imagine how much less the burden would be on each individual trying to run a small horse business, to be self-employed or to bring in exactly as much help as they needed.
As for skilled vs unskilled, the government defines these in ways that are maybe not compatible with the common use of those terms. “Skilled” usually means that there’s training from a college required. In fact most agricultural workers of any type are highly skilled, which is very much why we import them. You CAN’T actually take a random kid off the street and put them to work at most kinds of ag labor effectively. They don’t know how to pick and pack, they don’t know how to efficiently climb ladders, and they don’t know how to use tools unless they’ve been taught before and have hundreds of hours of practice.
If you taught someone to do your horse job in 3 days it’s because they came to you with skills already installed. (I work what is considered a highly skilled job and I was productive in my first day at my latest job, again because I came with the skills, not because the job is easy.) Pushing a wheelbarrow, using a long handled tool, these are probably skills that the person already had, not to mention the physical stamina and muscle. Maybe they learned them at a previous job, or from family, or from school.
In general, the reason we use immigrant labor for ag is that most of the people who come to do that work are indeed very highly skilled, and they can make more money in the US than at home, where they learned those skills.
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Just catching up so may be behind the current flow…
Dude… I have spent far more than “five minutes” at the track or sales.
Depending on the situation, letting go is not only not a fireable offense but sometimes the safest course of action. That was drilled into me even at the big TB breeding farm I was working on - by the very skilled and respected farm manager - after he also praised me for my handling and horse sense.
One example: I was working with a large, fractious yearling… getting him ready to go to the Keeneland sale. He had days where he was just amped up about everything and you had to work him through it patiently. One afternoon a gust of wind picked up as we were on our way back to his stall and he reacted strongly to it, rearing up and spinning and striking. I got him straightened out after a bit of a “discussion”… and turned around to see that BM sitting there in his truck, watching us. He laughed and said that it was fine to (his words) " let the little jerk go" and then catch him again and start over… as opposed to risking an injury . That yearling’s sire was a hot item then and he walked calmly onto the transport trailer a few weeks later and headed to Kentucky… where he sold for over $100,000. So yeah, he was valuable - but so was I.
Exactly right.
Agreed - and sometimes - depending on the incident - releasing that pressure in a particular situation de-escalates everything.
Been there , done that. I have the crooked, formerly broken fingers to prove it! After a couple of spills off greenies years ago… I realized that in an enclosed arena, they have nowhere to go. My getting wrenched as I clung to the rains served no purpose other than to reef on their mouths, raise their flight alarm level and torque my fingers/arm/shoulder.
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And you did not fire the rider? Shocking. <<<< sarcasm
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It’s also the case that part of their unstated compensation has been to create an opportunity for the worker’s family, either by sending cash home with a favorable exchange rate or by providing a better place for their kids to grow up. If that’s no longer part of the deal, employers are going to have to find more cash or find ways to do more with less or the customers will pay more or perhaps some of these operations will no longer be viable.
Again as true for fruits and vegetables and meat and eggs as it is for horses.
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This was actually a Thing.
IIRC, WI had a Workfare program back in the 80s.
Those able to work had to get jobs to get the State aid.
I don’t live there, don’t know if the program is still in existence. But it made a lot of sense to me back then.
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Since CE shut down, we’re getting a lot of that over here in Off Course/Off Topic. The only solutions I can see are to just stop reading/never start reading any thread that seems likely to become nonsensical/political or build up your “Ignore” List so you don’t see the posts of people who are routinely nonsensical/political.
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Maybe discuss the topic NOT the poster. Since we are all trying to post within the guidelines. 
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I don’t agree that we are all trying to post within the guidelines. Way too many people are choosing to ignore the “no politics” guideline in particular.
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Plus we were directed at the start of the thread to keep it to the horse industry.
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FWIW, the undocumented grooms tend to do pretty well - at least in Wellington. It’s the “working students” that get treated like 
.
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Getting to some barns to work could be difficult. If there are living accommodations on site that would relieve a person from needing a car. I know many agriculture farms have vans that pick workers up from a common living area but, if you only need a couple people it doesn’t seem feasible to send a vehicle to pick them up.
Does the race track have living quarters or are the grooms traveling with others from the horses farm?
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Working students DEFINITELY can be subjected to tough working conditions…
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Except for needing groceries and other things
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