Icing, ice boots, cold water hosing, poultice

This subject has come up in several threads/forums recently. IMO and I have been guilty of the same, icing, ice boots, cold hosing, poultice, wrapping, use of liniments etc. is practiced not because we know the “medical science”, reasons for doing it. We do it because either that is what we were taught and or that is what we have seen done by those we feel know more than we do. The “pros” always do it so it must be right.

The majority of my life has been centered around working with, training Thoroughbred racehorses, flat and steeplechase. When you are a kid in a racing family one of your first jobs is the boring task of cold water hosing, holding a horse in ice boots or ice buckets, etc. We did this without question and later learned this was done to reduce exercise induced swelling. Which it does do.

But, that is old school “sports therapy” not based on current research but more like a holdover from years past that has been passed down for generations. To be clear there is a time and reason for, icing, cold water hosing and of course poultice.

But research suggests, strongly suggests that it should not be done as a matter of course every time a horse is exercised, worked with. Even after competition. In fact it can be counterproductive if not done correctly.

The following are a couple of quotes on the subject. “Human” based but it applies to horses also.

“Recovery is key to preparing the body for the next workout. This includes restoring the calories expended and rehydrating, as well as ensuring adequate sleep before the next workout. A hard workout will create inflammation because it is the body’s way of starting the healing process for the micro-injured area. Jumping in an ice bath will stop inflammation but also postpone the healing process”

“I normally tell my athletes to use both ice and heat — two cycles of 10 minutes of ice, alternated with two cycles of 10 minutes of heat. Ice slows blood flow and heat has the opposite effect, increasing blood flow. The increase in blood flow helps to flush out the byproducts created by the workout, and the ice helps to reduce inflammation.”

“During a hard workout, blood rushes to your muscles, carrying oxygen and the needed energy to complete the workout. After a hard workout, muscles are inflamed and you have countless micro-tears in your muscles. You want to flush out all the waste that is the byproduct of this process”

[I]The cooling part of this process doesn’t need to be an ice bath; 65 to 75 degrees is fine. The cold water reduces the blood flow to the muscles and reduces the inflammation while still allowing for waste products to be flushed. Athletes experience less post-workout soreness after a cool bath."

“In physical therapy, the use of ice has been long-standing. Post-injury, the standard has been RICE: rest, ice, compression and elevation. What caused me to change was that the relevant research really did not support RICE, especially rest and ice.[/I]”

“We know movement is good. No longer do we recommend bed rest for back pain, or staying in bed after surgery. In fact, we recommend the opposite. Whether it is post-whiplash or post-knee replacement, we know that appropriate movement is good. It brings nutrition to the joints, which maintains range of motion and health in the area.”

[I]"Ice also is discouraged mainly because it stops the body’s natural path toward healing. The body has three stages of healing: (1) inflammation (2) repair and (3) remodel. Without inflammation, we do not proceed to the other stages of healing. So the use of ice to control inflammation makes no sense. Why stop the first stage of healing?

The same thing goes for taking non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs such as ibuprofen. Because they block the inflammatory [/I]cycle, they can limit the body’s natural process of healing itself."

"There are always exceptions. People are going to have pain, and ice makes them feel better. Ice can be good for muscles in spasm, or even as a security blanket, if someone has done it all his life.

Pain is usually a sign from the body that something is amiss. You can exercise through slight pain, say zero to three on a scale of 10, as long as it is stable. Pain above those levels usually results in compensations that lead to other problems."

“If someone is taking care of himself, with regular stretching and appropriate strengthening, a hard workout is no big thing. In the clinic, I usually see people injured when their bodies are not prepared for the stress of training, Take care of the body and it will take care of itself. Humans did quite well for thousands of years without ice or heat, just the natural healing process, which included lots of movement.”

The following quote I think is important to understand. There is a big difference between exercised induced “swelling” experienced working with a FIT horse and swelling from an “acute injury”. The horse rapping itself, a jump rail, soft tissue, tendon, ligament over exertion cause by the horse not being fit enough for what is being asked. “Joint issues”, small chips, poor or deteriorating cartilage, stress fractures just to name a few. A tendon on the “come” will look fine/normal after icing, cold water hosing, wrapping. It will “feel” fine to the “average” hand.

No disrespect intended, but years of working with a few horses especially with horses that have not been in serious competition training. Not having dealt with lots of horses who have ended up with a “tendon” does not make for an “experienced hand or eye”. It takes a LOT of experience to pick up on something before it becomes “acute”. Even the best of them get it wrong from time to time.

“The body’s natural response to an acute injury is inflammation, to protect the injured area. So to reduce the pain and swelling, I would recommend ice during the first 24 hours. After that, though, it’s time to find the cause of the injury and see a sports therapist. I wouldn’t recommend trying to run through an acute sports injury by just icing after each run. You need to find the cause of the injury”

Having worked with/around some Eventer, H/J people on my farm and “around” others barn. IMO most don’t really go about getting their horses “fit” in the right way. Flat work is all well and good, jump schooling the same. A bit of cantering and trotting around the ring.

But IMO and experience there is no way of getting a horse properly fit without taking the horse out of the ring several times a week and galloping them. The same that is done with racehorses. A fit horse will have no trouble galloping 1 1/2, 2 miles plus. Regardless of the discipline they are being used for. Being able to turn the horse out after a good work out is KEY also.

I also suggest understanding “lactic acid” build up, lactate being the proper term. Proper training/conditioning with this in mind will go a long way as part of the horse’s and the rider’s ability to perform at peak levels.

That’s the long of it. Me I do not ice, hose, poultice as a “matter of course”, routine. To each their own on this. But the “science” is pretty strong as to way it is counterproductive. I have only touched on the subject.

Please excuse any typos, spelling, grammar etc. that I didn’t pick up on before posting. The edit feature isn’t working at this time. And I never seem to pick up on them no matter how many times I re-read until after posting

I agree. Although we have to also remember that the lower limb of the horse doesn’t really have any muscle tissue. This is one difference between icing a horse’s legs and a human’s. But for the same reasons, circulation in the lower leg kind of sucks. So, for all of those reasons I’m more in favor of encouraging recovery through things like compression. Same for my own legs after doing an endurance sport. I mentioned in another thread that I like the Ice Vibes more for the vibration than the icing. Of course, ice an acute injury to help control inflammation and help with pain.

IPEsq-- have to admit I’m curious about the value of compression for recovery in horses. My understanding (as a runner) is that it primarily aids in muscle recovery, which as you point out isn’t really effective on the lower legs of a horse.

I believe it helps horses’ lymphatic system in the lower limb and does a bit to stimulate circulation in an area that doesn’t have the best to begin with. I think rather than hindering circulation with ice we should increase it for better recovery for the soft tissue in the lower leg of the horse. I think products like BOT and the ice vibe also help, some liniments and poultices also gave this effect in addition to cooling. We don’t want to create too much heat while boosting circulation and lymphatic drainage. I think that’s part of what the fancy human recovery boots do.

ETA … The compression for humans helps with muscle fatigue by encouraging circulation and removal of waste that allows the body to repair. IIRC

One of the vets I have used stated the same thing…most performance horses he saw were not “fit” but fat. I agree although I have never had access to a facility where galloping was possible.

I feel like movement is the best anti-inflammatory. I know, not possible for a lot of horses. My horse can move 24/7 and I think it makes a huge difference in recovery and maintaining good circulation.

Susan

I wholly agree! If it ain’t broke…don’t fix it. The secret is to push the envelope enough to get the “direction to fitness” without going over. Knowing how to read the horse will tell you when you have worked at bit to much and a nice brace, ice or hosing is a good idea. I also believe standing bandages every night teach the horses lymph system to depend on the compression causing any number of problems.

Modern sports horses are so specialized and pampered they are like hot house flowers.

In the old days the fastest way to fitness was to “ride the hide” off the horse. Sanely, of course.

I wholly agree! If it ain’t broke…don’t fix it. The secret is to push the envelope enough to get the “direction to fitness” without going over. Knowing how to read the horse will tell you when you have worked at bit to much and a nice brace, ice or hosing is a good idea. I also believe standing bandages every night teach the horses lymph system to depend on the compression causing any number of problems.

Modern sports horses are so specialized and pampered they are like hot house flowers.

In the old days the fastest way to fitness was to “ride the hide” off the horse. Sanely, of course.

Gumtree, you quoted a lot without citing your source. When I get race horses in for r&r I just turn them out. No icing or poultice here, even if they have lumps and bumps.

Yes, I’d heard a few years ago that Rest, Ice, Compress, Elevate, was being reconsidered in relation to human athletes. Also, it seems, the use of NSAIDs. Inflammation, it turns out, is important for healing, rather than the destructive mechanism it’s sometimes thought to be. And inflammation is a sign of a functional immune system, not a sign of a poor immune system. I’ve heard of people taking NSAIDs after exercise to ward off pain and stiffness, which never seemed like a good idea to me; now I know why!

http://www.drmirkin.com/fitness/why-ice-delays-recovery.html

That said, ice is still recommended for acute injuries. I once gave myself a big whallop on the thigh tripping over a piece of furniture while vaccuming the house. I slapped an ice cube on the bumped place. When the bruise came up several hours later, there was an ice cub shaped clear spot in the middle of a big bruise, though it slowly disappeared as the bruise faded and spread. If I’d had a full size ice pack, maybe the bruise would have never come up?

This topic is one of those things where there are so many variables that you can’t really call one person’s routine right or wrong.
There’s a time and place for each sort of therapy.

I have a set of Ice Vibes that I use on my horses before I ride (without the ice). One horse never gets ice unless he took a funny step/jump. The other one has a previous tendon injury so he gets iced more often.
I also ice at shows where the footing was harder or softer then normal since these wouldn’t be your normal micro tears, these would be possible concussion or fatigue injuries.
These horses live out 24/7 so the only time they get wrapped is at a show. If I don’t they stock up since they’re used to moving around.

On the topic of fitness. There are different kinds of fitness. Just because a horse can gallop two miles does not mean that it can work from behind in a collected frame for 30 minutes and vice versa. Yes race horses undeniably have better cardio then sport horses, but are they stronger? Usually not.

I’m an avid long distance runner so I tend to carry over what works for me post workout.

Without the benefit of the quoting feature it make replies a bit time of a PITA and time consuming.

"you quoted a lot without citing your source"

Fair enough but I am not being paid to write an article. What I have quoted has been said by many that have the “credentials” behind their name. I have done the basic research and took the time to look up and post not only my take on things but also the prevailing “school of thought” on the subject.

Just about anything I post uses “IMO & IME” repeatedly. My “experience” can be found with a little bit of effort. I am not a “name” per-say but I have been around the block more than a few times. I have had a few articles written about me and or been included in the same. I have posted my “real” name numerous times along with my direct email address. My family’s history in both racing and sport horses can be found. My mother and step father were “featured” in The Chronicle back in their day. As were their obituaries. My brother in-law is a very well know and respected H/J trainer and worked with racehorses. We have had many discussions on the both over the years.

My point is people should take anything that the read on the forum with a grain of salt and put the time and effort into their own research. All things horse can not be summed up in a couple of paragraphs. As anybody that has read my comments surely knows. I am not exactly concise. But the subject of horses is not an easy one to be concise with.

That being said people take a lot of “advice” and or comments to heart given by those who offer little to no background information on the forum. 99% of people give little to nothing when clicking on “about me” on the profile. Which is fine.

“One of the vets I have used stated the same thing…most performance horses he saw were not “fit” but fat. I agree although I have never had access to a facility where galloping was possible”

My mother would say, the horse “looks fit” enough, but when “poking” around the horse is “soft”.

Unfortunately most boarding, training facilities are located where property is expensive. Because people/convenience want the convenience. Proper turn-out is hard to come by. But training a horse properly is not always convenient nor easy and or enjoyable. But there usually are places that a horse can be trailered. It takes extra effort and time.

I have found it quite interesting that a lot of H/J and Dressage riders are not very comfortable going out on a horse in “wide open spaces” let along galloping around and up and down hills, crossing water, mud etc. There was an article in the Chronicle about this not long ago. Quite few have told me the same when I suggest taking their horse out of my ring and go for a gallop around the farm.

“This topic is one of those things where there are so many variables that you can’t really call one person’s routine right or wrong.There’s a time and place for each sort of therapy”

I believe I touch on this. If I wasn’t clear enough, well, like I said above I am not being paid to write an article. Just throwing things out for people to think about and do some of their own research. As I said at the beginning of my post, there has been a number of threads on the use of ice, hosing etc. Just about every comment I read people went about it as a “matter of course”. Not with thought, and understanding of the “science” behind it.

“There are different kinds of fitness” Of course but that IMO doesn’t make it right. A fit horse is a “completely” horse.

“Just because a horse can gallop two miles does not mean that it can work from behind in a collected frame for 30 minutes and vice versa. Yes race horses undeniably have better cardio then sport horses, but are they stronger? Usually not”

I don’t entirely disagree. Especially horses that are trained exclusively at the racetrack.

I have trained both. Sport and Steeplechase, (Timber horses). The latter much more so. I promise you my Timber horses can go toe to toe with any sport horse. “30 minutes in a collected frame” is child’s play for them. 3-4 miles over pretty stout jumps over far less then perfect footing they better be able to. If they you want to be able to have a chance at winning and have a horse that will be able “fight another day”.

“I’m an avid long distance runner so I tend to carry over what works for me post workout”

I ran long distance in HS, was not on our team because I had not interest. Which frustrated our coach because I could outrun the state champion. I was into backpack, rock climbing and mountaineering. I ran for cardio only and to test/push myself to the limit. Effective distance runners have to. But that “limit” doesn’t come close to what one can and will encounter on some “intensely” demanding climbs. Life or death situations in some cases. Distance running does not close to developing the “overall” level of fitness/strength one needs to climb at the highest levels. Nor the mental nerve that is required to keep your sh*t together is some very dicey situations. Not unlike being on a horse at times. At least that as been my experience in some jump races I rode.

“I tend to carry over what works for me post workout” I do the same with my horses both in training and post “workout”. But there were very few times if ever that I needed to ice, hose or poultice myself. I am 60 and have lead a VERY athletic life. A physically demanding athletic life at times, high end skier, snow and water, climber, white water canoe, sailing and horses. Soup to nuts horses. I my over all body condition is better than most half my age. No knee, hip or back issues. My wind and cardio isn’t is good as it used to be. Nor my over all physical strength I’ve gotten a bit lazy. But my “yard stick” is a bit “longer” than most people’s.

I know I was born with over athletic gifts. I never had to work that hard at it. IME there are horses that are born the same. No amount of training, icing, hosing is going to change that. Horse or human the individual dictates what it can and can not do and what is needed to “care” for things. My point is nothing should be done as a “matter of course”. The trainer, caretaker should have a good understanding of "cause and effect. What is needed, what might be counter productive and what is just a waste of time and effort.

As always, to each their own. I don’t profess to be an expert. Just passing on what I have learned based on lots of experience.

I was however born with crappy teeth. A reasonable trade off for what I received in return.

2 Likes

You don’t profess to be an expert yet you took a whole page to list the accomplishments of yourself and your family…

No one is disagreeing with you or questioning your experience, people were simply giving their take on it.

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You don’t profess to be an expert yet you took a whole page to list the accomplishments of yourself and your family…

No one is disagreeing with you or questioning your experience, people were simply giving their take on it.

The link I cited is in fact making the point that icing after routine exercise is not that beneficial for people, which is what I meant by the RICE protocol being superseded to some extent. So while I’m sure lots of athletes have been icing after exercise, it may not actually be the best idea.

Here’s where it gets complicated. I was told by my current horsey mentor that heat and swelling, especially persistent swelling, can be damaging the tissue in addition to whatever they are a symptom of, and so try to cold hose and bring that down. On the other hand, she is not a prone to a lot of fuss, but then her horses don’t seem to have a lot of leg problems. But the new information on inflammation suggests that it might be healing, rather than harming.

The second complication is, as someone said either here or in another recent post, that we don’t always know in a horse what is an actual acute injury starting up (that might benefit from ice) and what is just soreness or swelling from fatigue. I think I can tell now in my own body, though maybe not when I was younger. But people miss all kinds of early warning signals about tendon damage, and end up crippling very nice horses.

The link I cited is in fact making the point that icing after routine exercise is not that beneficial for people, which is what I meant by the RICE protocol being superseded to some extent. So while I’m sure lots of athletes have been icing after exercise, it may not actually be the best idea.

Here’s where it gets complicated. I was told by my current horsey mentor that heat and swelling, especially persistent swelling, can be damaging the tissue in addition to whatever they are a symptom of, and so try to cold hose and bring that down. On the other hand, she is not a prone to a lot of fuss, but then her horses don’t seem to have a lot of leg problems. But the new information on inflammation suggests that it might be healing, rather than harming.

The second complication is, as someone said either here or in another recent post, that we don’t always know in a horse what is an actual acute injury starting up (that might benefit from ice) and what is just soreness or swelling from fatigue. I think I can tell now in my own body, though maybe not when I was younger. But people miss all kinds of early warning signals about tendon damage, and end up crippling very nice horses.

Agree with GoodTimes. Gumtree, it’s not all about you. When quoting, sources are linked so those who found the quote interesting can read the full article, and also review the credentials of the author to determine how much weight to give to that opinion.

What if a horse has cellulitis. Is it OK to ice that to reduce swelling?

I’ve always been told to cold hose for that.

Is a vet involved? Can you ask the vet?