Ideal Show photography

[Outdoorz]

Other than more affordable, what are some things that show photographers could offer you to get you to buy more photos?

I thought about a deposit to guarantee a certain number of images so the photographers could actually take photos of people who will buy then

I know that during my first A show, I was so excited to have a photographer at the show. Unfortunately she didn’t even photograph my ring and then proceeded to harass people for having their own photographers.

Would you pay MUCH cheaper prices for bulk photos that aren’t edited - you get full rights to edit/print/share as you like. I figure so many people crop and edit in platforms like instagram, it is a way to keep photographer prices lower.

I dunno, I am just really disappointed in the lack of photos at the shows I’ve been to lately.

[ridernc]

The photographers I have worked with at shows usually have a sign up form at their booth where interested riders can sign up with their contact info and classes. That way, the photographer has a “priority list” of riders to put a photographer on for each ring. Otherwise, it can be overwhelming to try to capture every riders class in every ring for every day of the show (and the majority never look or purchase those photos).

As for harassing other photographers, each show photographer and show organizer have their own way of dealing with this. Often, venues have pretty strict rules around non-official photographers since they charge their official photographer vendor fees to photograph the show. (Personally, if there are a lot of people pushing around or in front me to try to photograph a round I’m covering, I let them and move on to a different ring.)

Most recognized shows do not allow photographers to have private clients (WEF being the most notable exception), so I’m not sure if that means taking deposits would count as taking on private clients. My advice is if you definitely want a round covered and you know there is an OP at the show, go talk to them! We love to hear you’re excited about photos, and we’ll often work harder to cover your round, take ribbon photos of you, etc. if we know you’re interested.

[OnDeck]

I’ve horse shown a lot. That means I have A LOT of oxer on an angle shots. It has to be a really memorable day or a horse really jumping out of his skin to get me to buy it.

I would totally buy something more unique though. I know there’s only so much the photographers can do in that respect but I would personally pass up a good jump photo for something a little more artsy and creative. I have a few good ingate candids that I love.

[Foxglove]

When the kiddos showed, it was pre-IPhone era —we bought photos at every venue and had hard copy scrapbooks. At the major shows, one signed up and pre-paid then was given access to on-line (or at first hard copy) photos at the photographers tent. Once could then buy the hard copies or a CD or a VHS tape applying the deposit to the purchase.

However, by the time granddaughter finished showing (5 years ago), the show photographers had pretty much gone the way of the dinosaur. Too many parents and friends with phones taking pictures and sharing them for free. I was at one clinic where the organizer TRIED to keep parents and spectators from photographing their kids/friends so her photographer husband could do so. It got ugly. She spent more time trying to throw people off her property who had a phone out than she did managing the clinic. Wives watched husbands be escorted off the property, kids saw parents asked to leave --not good.

What has remained are the professional videographers who tape rides with cameras set around the CC course and video dressage rides and stadium courses --then make a nice copy of that. Still love looking at those.

[Foitin]

One thing that would help is for the show management and the photographers to let people know how to get the photos and for this “getting” and access not to be solely in a random tent on the show grounds. I don’t have time to go to a tent and sit there and look at photos. I do have time to look at a website from my work office or home. I realize it must be labor intensive, but getting the photos up on an easy to use website as soon as possible would be remarkable, I would think, for business.

[RacetrackReject]

I have done show photography and uploaded proofs to websites. The issue there is that people just steal what they want. There really isn’t a way to make a digital image impervious to theft, even with huge watermarks that say “if watermark is visible, image has been stolen”. I see those posted on FB all of the time with the stolen watermark visible. People have no shame.

I also had people that could not work the website badgering me all hours of the night and telling me that I needed to get a new system, something that I’ve paid over $500/year for for multiple years, because they couldn’t use it, even though 99.9% of the other competitors had no issue.

Show photography is a dying professional because people would rather steal photos or get free photos from someone scabbing that are blurry and grainy than to pay for good photos. Do not get me wrong, there are people who will buy from the OP regardless, but they are in the minority.

I have clients who will schedule to ride at venues if I happen to agree to shoot a show just to be able to get my photos. I also have clients who will hire me privately for shows (I generally only shoot behind the scenes and more artistic type photos so the client still has to buy ring photos from the OP, if there is an OP), and I always contact the OP beforehand to make sure it is ok.

I had one series that wanted me to shoot their shows and we tried to find a way to make it profitable by adding a required photography fee (very small because if everyone pays a small amount for everyone to get their photos, it works out better than a few paying a large amount) but there were a few small groups who threw a fit and wanted to boycott, so now that series has no photographer. It doesn’t hurt my feelings to not have to stand out in the sun for 8-10 hours a day with no food/drink/bathroom break. lol

Anyway, it’s sort of a damned if you, damned if you don’t kind of thing. You cannot make everyone happy and you cannot stop people from stealing if they really want to.

I mostly sell/sold digital photos in bulk, but fully edited, for a flat rate. Prints were available in the gallery too, but most people wanted digitals.

[clanter]

Honestly it less hassle and easier work to do photos for real estate companies. The same expertise is needed (well you do not need to encourage a lamp to put its ears up and forward) but lighting and frame composition are still the same.

Neither of my two kids who are professional photographers will do a horse show (and if son ever did you end up with artsy stuff )

[mmeqcenter]

I can understand an official show photographer getting upset if someone has another paid photographer there to take photos for them. However, if it’s just friends or family taking photos or video of the person they’re there supporting, I’d snap right back if a show photog told my mom to put her phone away; get out of here.

I think that show management and show photogs could certainly do a better job about communicating what is priority, or even being photo’d at all. I went to a horse trial one time just to get nice show photos and video of a horse I had in on consignment, and wanted to get some doing dressage and some doing show jumpers (he was not an eventer). I told my boyfriend, no need to take off work to come help me, there’s an official show photographer! Then after the show, when I contacted the show photog to buy pix, I found out they only shot cross country. I mean, wow.

I’ve always been disappointed at the photos available from shows. I’d go looking for friends photos from rated H/J shows in Ohio, to find that the photog shot every rider in their class BUT my friend. Or they got like 15 shots of two other riders, but just one of the person I was looking for. Why?

It probably would work better for show photographers to specifically only shoot people that have prepaid, so that the rest of the competitors don’t think they’re going to get photos because the show bill states there’s a photog, just to end up with nothing for whatever reason.

Personally, yes, I’d love to pay like a flat rate or something to have a photog shoot my round or test and just send me all the photos, without editing or picking/choosing, etc. Professional editing services could be offered as an additional service with an additional fee.

[Skip_s_Rider]

I’ve been sorely disappointed in the quality of the photos even at the rated shows. I really WANTED to buy some photos, but all of the ones the photographers took of me in the ring were terrible. At one show where I was champion in my division, I asked for some posed photos with my horse wearing the cooler and ribbon. I purchased two of the nicer photos, but none of them were great. I’m happy to have them, because this was the last show where we actually jumped courses.

I suspect the really good photographers can make better money elsewhere. A number of years ago, my daughter arranged for a local professional photographer to come out to the farm and take photos of us with our horses. The photos were stunning.

Edited to clarify that the local photographer came to the farm, not a show, to take photos.

[RacetrackReject]

I do not say anything to people who I see shooting, even with a pro camera and lens, if they are just shooting a few people. The flip side of that is that I saw a lady that I know is a photographer shooting a few people at a show I was not only the OP for, but that I was also the sponsor of the show (the only sponsor!!), and what I was too busy to notice was that the lady did photos of everyone which she then posted online selling her photos. Photos that she literally took right over my shoulder at an event that was created by me and which I sponsored. I did not know any of this had happened until the facility owner messaged me to say that she had seen what the lady was doing and she and her daughter were now banned from the facility.

Events are hard because there are multiple levels of multiple stages going on at the same time, so the OP needs to have at least 3 shooters to get everyone doing everything, which means paying a decent wage to multiple people when you barely make enough to pay yourself, accommodations, food, insurance, etc. That is why many one-person show photographers tend to only shoot the groups they know that people will want photos of.

There could be a number of reasons why certain people do not have their photos taken or have fewer photos taken. I will fully admit that I will take extra photos of people who pre-paid or that I know will buy their photos vs people I know who just screenshot my photos and post them to social media every.single.time. There are also people that I will not take photos of, period, like the trainer who uses stolen photos to sell her 5 figure+ horses.

People do not want to prepay because, “What if I don’t like my photos?”. If I feel that someone’s photos are inferior, I will refund, but there are people who like to look at their photos, download them all, then demand a refund because they all “sucked”. Yet they downloaded them and posted them all over social media and will bad mouth you 10 different ways if you do not refund for the “awful” photos.

Most photographers will not hand over unedited photos, but minimal editing is what I do for my proofs for free.

[TheJenners]

@Skip_s_Rider

I suspect the really good photographers can make better money elsewhere. A number of years ago, my daughter arranged for a local professional photographer to come out and take photos of us with our horses. The photos were stunning.

This has been my opinion for a few years now, after seeing quality start to go down starting 20 years ago. Granted huge advancements in camera tech but a show photog should not offer me pictures with the front legs already unfolded, or that super awkward trot pose with two legs complete vertical, or flat classes where sure you are in the picture, but so are two or three others grouped up trotting around so that they are getting more interest in each picture and hope three riders/parents will all want to buy the same picture because it’s the only thing available.

[mmeqcenter]

@RacetrackReject

Events are hard because there are multiple levels of multiple stages going on at the same time, so the OP needs to have at least 3 shooters to get everyone doing everything, which means paying a decent wage to multiple people when you barely make enough to pay yourself, accommodations, food, insurance, etc. That is why many one-person show photographers tend to only shoot the groups they know that people will want photos of.

Don’t get me wrong, I totally understand this, and I’m not saying they should have or should always photograph every ring at every show ever. However, it would have been helpful if the show management had posted “We have an official show photographer for cross country!” instead of just “We have an official photographer!” Then I could have made my own arrangements with my boyfriend or a friend.

[TheHunterKid90]

A few photographers where I show have been doing a Media Fee that you can opt in or out of. But if you opt in, it covers social media quality photos all weekend plus all of your videos uploaded to YouTube for you to use.
You can opt out and they will still photograph and video you but then you will pay more for the same product on the backside.

[hairystockings]

So we actually have this conversation at every horse show. Our barn wants a “whoops” package option. Everyone gets to pick their favorite “nailed it” photo for like $10 each for just a digital copy. The three legged leap, the how did I stay on, the why are we bucking, the pop chip, the absurd over jump, the mid-fall picture, whatever it is. We all have enough pretty photos of us jumping single fences or with a ribbon we’re proud of, but the goofy ones that make us laugh are the ones we go back to time and time again (but are not inclined to pay a chunk of money for). Give us a cheap option as some sort of package deal to get copies of those.

[Peggy]

Speaking as an exhibitor

We’re pretty lucky out here to have several good photographers out here, though the best options (thinking of two in particular, with one more consistently providing excellent photos) are pretty much only at the AA USEF shows. Almost every time I’ve gone to a show that was shot by one of those two photographers there’s been at least one photo I want. So, step one is to provide good photos! OK, maybe step 1 is to have a photographer…

The aforementioned photographers generally have excellent ring coverage, which is step two.

I’m OK with either a website or viewing the photos at the show. Given that I haven’t been to a show in over a year (Covid exhibitor restrictions plus lame horse) I don’t even know if the latter is currently an option. I am old enough to remember the days when you visited the photographer every day, went through the stack of black and white photos taken of your ring the day before and processed on site, found yours and had them put them aside in an envelope, and then went back to purchase any you wanted the last day, so maybe I’m less fussy than some. But having easy access to the photos is essential. I’ve been to some smaller USEF shows where there was someone taking photos, but the only way to find out who was to walk up and ask them for a card (thus interrupting them), or go on the show website or ask at the office. Then you have to find the website.

I have evolved to the point where I purchase hi-res images of any photos that I want prints of.

In short, you have to have a good photographer that covers all the rings (somehow) and provides relatively easy access to the photos.

The smaller USEF and county shows out here don’t always have photographers, or have one you have to hunt out (see above), or it’s one person trying to cover two or more rings, or they just don’t consistently get good shots.

Some of the big AA shows out here now have a non-optional production fee. Some were doing this before Covid: it’s more prevalent now. The two shows I found were $125. For that all rings are photographed and taped (plus live feed in most cases), and exhibitors get lo-res files of stills and ability to view (and download?) videos. Actually, anyone can pull up the photos and watch the videos. They do pull some of the videos but the threshold varies (falls are usually pulled, other eliminations sometimes are); however, you can ask to have yours pulled.

I will not “like” a stolen photo on social media and have even been known to contact photographers. I also figure that anyone that uses stolen photos to promote their business or sell horses is probably someone with flawed morals in other regards and I may not want to do business with them.

Speaking as a non-pro photographer

Like pretty much anything else, getting good photos requires knowledge and practice. Continual practice. You can’t expect to pick up your camera after not using it at all for a month or more and get great photos consistently. Likewise, you need to practice the thing you are shooting: if you took show photos a few months ago, but you’ve been photographing a lot of, say, nature photos recently, it’s probably going to take a bit of practice before you get back to where you were shooting horse shows. This is where the people who shoot round after round for days at a time are going to have a massive advantage over someone who does it once a month. This is why I am happy to pay the pro photographers that get good photos.

With both riding and photography you need both expertise and equipment. Eventually you will reach a point where kit lenses don’t cut it, no matter how good you are. Likewise, great equipment is only going to get you so far if you don’t know how to use it. The equipment is not cheap in either enterprise.

Given the above two paragraphs, the average mom or aunt or friend with an iPhone or a not-long enough telephoto lens or inadequate expertise is not going to get the same photos that a pro will. Yes, if you take enough you might have some with the right timing and you can crop in a lot to get something with adequate resolution to post on the web, but it’s not going to make even an 8x10 print.

When I go to shows with my barn (something I haven’t done in some time bc Covid+lame horse), I shoot both candids and in-ring shots of my friends and barn-mates. I’ll post some on social media and if I’m organized put the hi-res images in a shared Dropbox folder. I will also sit at a ring and photograph horse after horse for practice, but those photos go from my camera to the computer for review and are probably going to get deleted afterwards. With very rare exception I don’t share any photos on social media that aren’t of barn-mates or friends. One exception was a photo that I took of a rider who was sitting on his horse during the prize-giving and taking a selfie of himself and his horse with the Jumbotron with his name on it in the background.

I don’t shoot over people’s shoulders, whether they are pros or not. That’s bad photo etiquette. I will look where the pros are shooting from and might stand behind them at some distance to see why they’re shooting from that vantage point for my own learning.

I’ve only been approached by one photographer who told me that I couldn’t post any photos of anyone besides barn-mates on social media. They approached me. They did not say anything to the barn dad who was shooting next to me. Maybe his equipment looked less threatening? This was not one of the top-tier photographers mentioned above and my barn-mates said they didn’t get great photos from them.

I love photos, but I can’t take any of me in the ring. I need show photographers and don’t want them to go away.

[ridernc]

@RacetrackReject

Events are hard because there are multiple levels of multiple stages going on at the same time, so the OP needs to have at least 3 shooters to get everyone doing everything, which means paying a decent wage to multiple people when you barely make enough to pay yourself, accommodations, food, insurance, etc. That is why many one-person show photographers tend to only shoot the groups they know that people will want photos of.

This is basically the answer. To cover everyone who could possibly want photos, capture the type of photos each person wants, ensure the quality, lighting, and editing is superior, and charge $10 a photo…is not really feasible from a business perspective. I burned out of show photography relatively quickly because it is grueling work with little reward.

The main benefit that I can see for show photographers who stay on the circuits for a long time is that they end up making a name for themselves with show organizers and riders because they are pleasant to work with and deliver outstanding photos. Those relationships then lead to repeat private clients, exclusive OP contracts, bigger social media followings, etc. You don’t get a reputation for delivering outstanding photos if you regularly sell unedited, low quality photos for $10. I suspect the majority of those folks burn out quickly after a few 5-day, 16+ hour/day horse shows.

[sparkygrace]

I have bought photos like this before! I explicitly told the photographer the one photo was hilarious, and could I buy two “nice” prints and a cheaper digital copy of the silly one and they were more than happy to oblige.

[furlong47]

I think what many people want currently is not what they are getting from show photography - a handful of half decent photos to post on social media that same day. That’s why I will sometimes go take photos for friends at local shows/events. I get plenty of shots for each person, plus candids and artsy angles that you won’t normally see, and have them edited and turned around within a few hours. Most will also buy something from the official photographer, if there is one, but that tends to be for the one stunning shot you want to have printed out and hang on the wall. By the time you wait for proofs, order, wait for it to be edited and shipped or sent over digitally, the show was 2 weeks ago and in internet time that’s ancient.

[JenEM]

I’ve rarely (never?) seen the ability to purchase multiple shots at a discount at hunter shows. It seems to be fairly common with events/dressage. Last month I did my baby’s first recognized dressage show, and the photographer offered digital photos, $25 each or all your pictures for $125; if there hadn’t been the package offer, I probably would have bought 2-3, but with that pricing, I figured why not, I kind of want to remember that moment of her going Full Giraffe after her first halt-salute.

What’s also common at dressage shows, at least around here, is that you can text the photographer with your # and ring/times, and they will shoot you, no pre-payment required. But they know if someone is asking to be photographed, they’re more likely to buy.

At a multi-ring show, I agree with others who say it would be nice if there was some notice from the official photographer–like a sign at the office–what rings are being shot. I did hunter breeding stuff last year and got zero photos, despite there being an official photographer at every show we did, because they either never shot our ring or weren’t even on grounds except for the weekend classes.

Ditto the comment about turnaround, too–people want quick digital images they can share online, rarely prints anymore. I don’t think you need to do a whole lot of editing/color correcting to put them online for people to view to buy, just let them know that that will happen after purchase, because it’s a lot better business to correct three photos someone is paying for and email them out than do it to 300 photos people may or may not buy, and holds up the entire process of getting them available for purchase.

[RacetrackReject]

So having same day photos, again, leads to the issue of needing to hire staff at a competitive rate because you cannot be in the ring and also uploading and editing photos at the same time. You have to pay someone who can run back and forth from the ring to get cards and upload them. I also edit every file I take that makes it beyond the cull process as I go through them. Why? Because it’s easier to do it that way than to have to dig through 30k (labeled) files from one show to edit them later.

Planning on what to shoot beforehand and having a posted schedule just doesn’t work out most times. Best laid plans and all. I’m a planner and a list maker and have enough anxiety to power Texas through ice storms, so I am all about having every little thing planned out head of time. Plot twist, it never actually works out. Some rings run early or over due to accidents or equipment failure or weather and you have to change on the fly and then people get VERY upset that posted things were changed and they weren’t notified beforehand when there was not a beforehand to use to notify people.

Honestly, it’s all a catch 22 and all we can do is our best. There is not a way to please everyone so you just have to do what you can and take the criticism on the chin because there will be criticism and talk regardless of what you do.

I do offer incentives (discount) for those who pre-pay for my digital packages. I also have incentives for people who bought series packages the year before for the same series of shows. I even have clients who will message and ask if I can arrive at the grounds early to get photos of sale horses doing warm-ups/exhibitions and I have done that a number of times even though it is sometimes 2 hours before I actually need to be at the showgrounds. We aren’t trying to bleed anyone out of their hard-earned money, we just want to get paid enough to live or in many cases, at least break even.

As for the silly/oops/fall photos, I do keep clicking but I have absolutely had my butt handed to me for having oops photos in a gallery for viewing with all of the other photos, so if I do not know the person, I will withhold those photos, even if I took them. If the client asks if I have any photos from that incident, then I will let them see them. I have one client who loves tough quirky horses and she messaged me before the last show to say, “I’m bringing a horse that is supposed to be blown up and when I asked what he did, the previous owner said everything, I’m also bringing my confirmed bucker and a mare that hasn’t been shown in a year due to her attitude. I do not care what happens, you just keep clicking. I want all of them.”. LOL This is also a client that just hands me a wad of cash when she sees me at the show and says to let her know if she owes more.

This may sound harsh, but it’s the hard truth. If you post any photos from a show, you are taking money out of the OP’s pocket. Most OP’s do not mind as long as it’s for family or just a barn mate or two, but the fact is that the majority of people will always take the free or cheap option over the OP. Every photo out there takes money out of their pockets. That may sound petty, but it’s the truth and no one is trying to stop you from taking photos of your friends for fun, it just is what it is and why the age of show photography is grinding to a halt.

I had a situation yesterday where a girl posted a photo that I took of her with the watermark all the way across it. Some of my clients noticed this and lectured the girl on photo theft etc, but the thing is that the girl had paid for the photo and she had an unwatermarked version but chose to use the marked version instead for whatever reason. She was confused and messaged me asking if she had done anything wrong, I had multiple messages from clients with screenshots telling about the perceived theft, and in the end, I had to spend hours setting everything straight and issue an apology when I did not do anything wrong, in order to keep the peace and stop this girl and my defenders from being attacked by outraged people on the internet. Social media has changed the game in some not-so-good ways for a lot of professions.