Ideas for a bad puller?

[mintano]

We’ve got a filly at the farm that is a terrible puller, she’s come back into work the past six weeks and has been manageable galloping but last week she put in her first work back and since then she’s been horrible which I knew was coming from having galloped her in the past.

She’s especially tough to hold because she’d like to gallop with her head between her knees and every stride is a battle. Take a short hold on her and she pulls and yanks until it feels like your arms fall off, take a long hold and she runs off. She’s galloping in an eggbutt snaffle with a rubber figure eight.

I am open to anything, tips, tricks, a different bit?

[Laurierace]

There is no one size fits all answer, you have to do some experimenting. I would start with one of the following, a gag, an elevator or a citation bit and go from there. It isn’t as applicable with a race horse as other types of riding but the adage that it takes two to pull needs to be kept in mind.

[Lord_Helpus]

The solution you are looking for is not a different bit, it is a different noseband.

The Kineton noseband will stop any horse from pulling, even when a light/soft bit is used inside the mouth.

Google it: there are a number of pictures of horses wearing Kinetons.

Smart Pak and (I think) Dover sell them.

The only problem with using it is that, when you pull on the reins, it does not exert mouth pressure (regular bit), poll pressure (gag bit), but pressure over the nose. This might not be the best option for a racehorse who needs a lot of air to breathe deeply. But, when used as an every day piece of equipment, it will stop the pulling and, hopefully, that lesson will carry over to faster work. However, I use it for x/c which involves 5 - 6 minutes of straight galloping, so it can probably be used for almost everything.

FYI: the Kineton that Smart Pak sells has a piece of leather which fastens over the nose. The length of that piece of leather was soooo long that it was far too big for my huge WB. So you will need to adapt it, or have a new strap made (easy) that can tighten enough to have the noseband put pressure on the nose when the reins are pulled.

Truly is it s wonderful invention (used widely in England, but not as well known in the US.) My WB also drops his head down to his chest with other tack, but not with the Kineton.

[Laurierace]

I had a horse that galloped with his head so low that he routinely hit his nose on his knees. The kineton did not help him but I agree it is worth a shot. I ended up with the elevator or bubble bit as it is sometimes known on him after much experimentation.

[BansheeBreeze]

Pony 'em

[Angelico]

I swear there are some that are just like this and when you find the solution, please send me a PM!

[Xctrygirl]

At the risk of getting flamed, my advice is to change riders.

Sometimes its not a lack of skills but a change of how the person rides, breathes, acts etc that can cause a hard puller to soften.

I know I have experienced it from both sides as I was jocked off a few and picked up a few fellow riders weren’t getting along with.

Try someone else for a couple days. Because training without pulling like a locomotive is ultimately best for the horse.

~Emily

[birdsong]

Would you think the nose band might work for a strong TWH? When riding with a large group of horses he can become very excitable…and then there’s always one or two with bad trail manners that suddenly go galloping off with no warning…GRRR…
I have had to give in to the mad gallop several times like a fly holding onto a train…not comfortable with that. :no:

Other times he can hang his head and meander like an old QH. He came with, and I ride him with his 6" shank walking horse bit…tried to change over to a pelham and he wouldn’t have it! I cringe at the pressure I might be using…and I believe he opens his mouth at times for escape.

Would this be something to try…seems it would only come into play when I needed it.

[mintano]

Thanks guys for all the ideas!

@Laurierace;6390907

There is no one size fits all answer, you have to do some experimenting. I would start with one of the following, a gag, an elevator or a citation bit and go from there. It isn’t as applicable with a race horse as other types of riding but the adage that it takes two to pull needs to be kept in mind.[/QUOTE]

Yes it’s definitely something that needs experimenting, I have been thinking a gag/elevator bit might be something to try. She’s a horse that can never be ridden the same way twice, everyday I’m changing it up which works pretty well.

[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;6390937]The solution you are looking for is not a different bit, it is a different noseband.

The Kineton noseband will stop any horse from pulling, even when a light/soft bit is used inside the mouth.

I’ve thought about trying the Kineton, been hesitant to use it since a lot of people think of it as excessively harsh but IMO it’s only as harsh as the hands that use it. Definitely an option.

@BansheeBreeze;6391069

Pony 'em

Hahaha yes, that is the best option!

[QUOTE=Xctrygirl;6392237]At the risk of getting flamed, my advice is to change riders.

Sometimes its not a lack of skills but a change of how the person rides, breathes, acts etc that can cause a hard puller to soften.

I know I have experienced it from both sides as I was jocked off a few and picked up a few fellow riders weren’t getting along with.

Try someone else for a couple days. Because training without pulling like a locomotive is ultimately best for the horse.

~Emily[/QUOTE]

No you’re definitely right, a change of rider can work wonders! Unfortunately of the riders we have I’m the only one capable of galloping her. She is an obnoxious puller and is a headcase to boot but we get along pretty well, I ride her different everyday to keep in tune with her ‘mood’, really just looking for something to make my job a little easier though at the same time I don’t like to bit up horses, so stuck between a rock and a hard place.

We actually might have found a solution, she’s been going out with the pony who jogs with her then ponies her back when she’s being particularly stupid. It would be ideal if we could be ponied the whole way around but the boss’s don’t want the pony working to hard I guess so that’s not an option. Anyway she is dead quiet while jogging with the pony and gets a little lost when we leave him to gallop then she kicks in and tries to go zoom. Today I made the suggestion that we gallop her behind another horse see if that will relax her a bit and it worked beautifully, if only we’d done this sooner! facepalm

I believe she’s going to breeze again tomorrow so I will report in on how she gallops after that, see if we’ve figured her out! Again, thank you all for the suggestions!

[Acertainsmile]

I galloped a little filly years ago that could pull like a freight train, no joke. This filly was also a bit of a head case too. We tried everything in our bag of tricks, even switching riders. A very seasoned excersise rider that could gallop anything told me to drop a ring bit very low in her mouth (hitting teeth low) and give it a shot. Well, it worked, she could not grab the bit like she had been doing, I’ve tried it on a few over the years, worked on some, but not all.

The one thing that I’ve learned is that even switching routines, bits, riders, a truly tough horse will figure it out after awhile and leave you scratching your head yet again for more ideas.

[Hunter_s_Rest]

Kineton.
Pelham.
Kineton.
Gag.
Kineton.
Hackamore.
Did I mention Kineton?
: )
I had one so flippin’ tough he went in a gag AND a kineton and he STILL ran off with me every time I went to gallop him between works.

[Laurierace]

Well since I have noodle arms I figured I could pull with every ounce of my being or throw them away and they would pretty much go the same speed. But I noticed that when you throw them away it’s not as much fun to go fast and they tend to come back to you. Just a thought.

[Acertainsmile]

Laurie, sometimes that works, and sometimes not. Or you have a broke down horse in the meantime. I’ve had luck with a citation bit, horse figured it out though after a month or so. I ended up using a leather prong and small shadow roll, this combo worked pretty well for me for some reason.

I did get along fabulously with this horse though, and no one else would even try to gallop him.

[PeteyPie]

I keep thinking about that thread about Billy Turner, Seattle Slew’s trainer, that was posted a while back citing the ESPN story http://espn.go.com/horse-racing/story/_/id/8009022/last-horseman

I don’t remember where I read it on COTH, but someone posted that Billy Turner’s wife deserved a lot of credit for making Seattle Slew’s career because she used dressage training techniques on him. He was such a puller and so strong that he was very difficult to handle, the way I understood it.

So in reading your post, I wonder if you could use other riding/training techniques? Is there simply not time to do that with a young race horse? Is it difficult to translate the style of riding to a short-stirrup jockey? What I mean is, if you are training a horse the basics, including leg aids, I would think that would not translate to a situation where the jockey has no leg pressure with his stirrups so high – but I don’t know, which is why I am asking.

In other words, if this filly were trained as a riding horse, how would that affect her behavior on the track?

[Hunter_s_Rest]

Some horses just pull no matter the riders’ skill, experience, technique, delicacy, strength, discipline etc.
Not saying it mightn’t help, but for gosh sakes. Some horses are just freight trains. No matter what.
The aforesaid kineton horse I had was a skillful foxhunter (hilltopper, masters horse, third field, first flight – all of it, willingly, withOUT pulling unduly), a lesson horse, shows, hunter paces, etc. All of it. I’m a pony club grad, eventer, dressage, show, etc. etc. etc.
He. Just. Pulled.
This was the sort that he really would have run 'til he died, he was that keen.

[crosscreeksh]

We had a huge Dixieland Band stallion in training a few years back. I likened galloping him to moving the 100x200 indoor arena 10 feet to the east!! “Hurting” him just made it worse. I ended up with a Dutch gag/Pessoa/elavator bit on him with a regular noseband. But with two sets of reins - one on the snaffle ring and one on the bottom ring. When he was good, I stayed on the snaffle - when he announced that we “were leaving” I set him back on the bottom rein. Not only did I get his respect, but I also taught him to stay “nice” for most of the ride. As soon as I pulled him up I hacked home on the snaffle rein. I called that rig a “snaffle with clout”!! He never got away from me and went on to win several stake races…we sent the rig with him!! We had another Cozzene horse that was impossible to gallop until we put that bit on him. I do prefer it with the two reins, though.

[gumtree]

German martingale has worked extremely well on these types for me. Play around with different bits. A snaffle seems to work just fine for most and to start with. I have had exercise riders who have never seen them before come back all smiles. It does take good hands though but the rider doesn’t have to have arms of steel. I gallop them for a couple of weeks in this and then switch back to a standard racing bridle and see how they go. Some horses come around quick and some don’t. I will also mix it up a couple of times a week with the German and then standard bridle.

[CVPeg]

@PeteyPie;6393335

I keep thinking about that thread about Billy Turner, Seattle Slew’s trainer, that was posted a while back citing the ESPN story http://espn.go.com/horse-racing/story/_/id/8009022/last-horseman

I don’t remember where I read it on COTH, but someone posted that Billy Turner’s wife deserved a lot of credit for making Seattle Slew’s career because she used dressage training techniques on him. He was such a puller and so strong that he was very difficult to handle, the way I understood it.

Finally have to respond to this constant recent bit of “fact”, that is taking on a life of its own. And yes, has even now been mentioned on a NY Times blog. And unfortunately, there are some racing bloggers on the NY Times who are less than factual.

Please refrain from using this example. It is one that was promoted for one purpose, and evidently not checked factually. It really has no merit. Trust me.

Edited to add: However, the ESPN piece does not mention what you are alluding to, and is, in fact, still correct.

[PeteyPie]

[QUOTE=CVPeg;6396826]
Finally have to respond to this constant recent bit of “fact”, that is taking on a life of its own. And yes, has even now been mentioned on a NY Times blog. And unfortunately, there are some racing bloggers on the NY Times who are less than factual.

Please refrain from using this example. It is one that was promoted for one purpose, and evidently not checked factually. It really has no merit. Trust me.

Edited to add: However, the ESPN piece does not mention what you are alluding to, and is, in fact, still correct.[/QUOTE]

Okay, please say more. I will trust you, but expand. What part is not true? Is it not true that the wife was an exercise rider, or that there was a wife, or that the wife used dressage techniques, that the wife helped make the horse, or that Seattle Slew was difficult? And now I am curious as to the “one purpose” for which “it” was promoted.

I am not trying to dispute you, because I only know what I read. I don’t know any of these people and I don’t know any of the people who knew any of the people.

But back to the original topic of the filly who pulls, and ideas to get her to stop… The idea (of saddle training a young thoroughbred for general riding) seems sensible to me. I have read (again, just read, don’t know the people who do this) that race horses in England are trained a little more like riding horses, and are expected to behave without a pony horse, and in fact, are not ponied even on the track. So, why not use dressage (or other style) techniques? That is not a rhetorical question; I really want to know. Again, I imagine it is a time/money issue, that a farm only has a few riders who are too busy to add extra duties, but I don’t know, there may be other reasons. Maybe it confuses the horse. Maybe it is hard on their bodies because it would mean more saddle time on a young, developing horse.

[Laurierace]

I didn’t do full blown dressage with my babies but they all learned how to push with the hind end instead of dragging themselves along with their front end and how to bend and supple as a part of being broken. It takes time and a rider who knows how to do it, both of which are in pretty short supply. Definitely made the trainer’s job easier when they got to the track though.