Ideas to amp a horse up

[xQHDQ]

I never thought I would be looking to amp a horse up, but here I am. I’m not looking for training exercises to get him sharper - thanks to prior COTH threads I have these. I’m looking for feeding or other management options. Sorry this is long.

He’s a 10yo KWPN who I have had since he was coming 3yo. Currently showing 2nd/3rd.
Current food: Strategy + SmartPak of Cosequin + Tendon supplement + multivitamin (that contains 5000 mg magnesium).
Just added SuperSport a few weeks ago. I see a positive change in his coat that I attribute to the SuperSport b/c it’s never looked this dappley over the winter in all the years I’ve had him.
His workload is increasing b/c we’re working towards 4th and beyond and he has lost weight over the winter in the past, so amount of Strategy was increased a few weeks ago. Thus, canceled the multivitamin (was originally put on vit supplement b/c amount of Strategy to keep good weight was less than what package said to provide adequate nutrients, and he tends to be spooky, so wanted the magnesium). Also, there is a lot of overlap between all that he was getting with the addition of the SuperSport.
Hay is grass hay and about as much as he wants to eat.
Turnout is all day or night depending on the season. With friends.
He is very sensitive to his routine (eg, stall walks and screams if he’s not the 1st horse turned out). Metabolically healthy. Ridden ~5 days/wk. Overall, a good egg.

At home and at local shows, he’s not the sharpest off the aids (my fault, I know). And then USDF Finals happened. He was super amped. He worked great except when we had to actually show and then he was also tense and super spooky, so it didn’t go very well. Nevertheless, I would rather have that horse.
Differences there were that he didn’t get any turnout, I fed him alfalfa-mixed hay, and of course, the electric atmosphere of Kentucky. He ate only half his grain until the last day.

I’m hoping the elimination of the magnesium helps. I thought about adding alfalfa, but it’s expensive and difficult to feed him special like that, but I would if it solved the problem. A reduction in turnout is not an option b/c I think it’s important to wellbeing.

If anyone has any other ideas of thoughts about the changes I’m making, please share.

[exvet]

Following because I have a similar challenge. My guy is a homebred 10 year old Welsh Cob. Both of his parents were on the hotter side. This guy is so chill yet cooperative. In other words he’ll answer a request in a way that is “Do you really mean it?” and then acquiesce giving mediocre effort. I’ve had one coach tell me he’s politely disobedient. Now I can get him hot off my leg pretty quickly and he does have forward though not willingly. Because he’s a Welsh Cob I have to be careful about what I’m feeding (extremely energy efficient) but he has no signs of metabolic issues. He is also pretty fit. I don’t have any ideas other than to teach forward in the flying changes and tempis I’ve resorted to cantering out on the trail especially whenever I’m headed home to give him the idea that this can all be fun. Trust me I’m in no way fearful or concerned that he would take off doing this or that this could even turn into a ‘bad habit’. In fact I would be delighted if I got a blast/threat to take off but I rarely really get that or if I do it’s fleeting because he pretty quickly realizes that he’s spending energy he doesn’t have to (or at least in the perspective of overall survival). He’s turned out with two other geldings, one a highly energy conservative rescued mustang who is so chill I sometimes have to check to see if he’s breathing. I chock this all up to the fact that I wanted to preserve the ‘pony’ character in my Welsh Cobs, well I think I’ve done too good of a job with that LOL.

[RedHorses]

Is Strategy a low NSC feed?

If yes, then he might benefit from more carbs in his diet. The extra carbs provide more freely available energy.

If not, then he might have a milder form of PSSM. At one point (17+ years ago) my horse was a lot of work to get going. I didn’t feel like he was half trying or anything mental. He was willing, but just didn’t seem to have any power. I tried increasing his feed for more energy, and he actually got worse. A vet check pointed us towards PSSM (when it was still EPSM) and I opted to do the diet change without the diagnostic muscle biopsy. Four months later I had a different horse. He wasn’t a firecracker about to explode, but when I asked him for something there was power in his response. I had to watch his feed carefully, though when he was working hard he could eat quite a lot of a high performance “controlled starch” feed without PSSM issues.

Before the PSSM discovery I did have a coach who noted that he didn’t fully commit himself to doing the things. He did them, but he was keeping a little of himself back. I think that was maybe the lack of power I identified later when his workload increased.

[Huntin_Pony]

So if it doesn’t have to do with his nutrition, maybe it can be improved through training.

I have one who was shut down when he arrived and still prefers not to work energetically. The biggest thing that has helped him is to “leave him alone.” What I mean is, ride very minimally - feather light contact, quick strong aids followed by passivity until you really have to do something again. Then back to passivity.

Nagging is a huge damper for some horses. Riding into firm contact can also be very discouraging for them.

Find something that he really enjoys and do more of that. His attitude will improve and cross over into “his job” over time.

Apologies if you only wanted to discuss nutrition.

[CanteringCarrot]

When my last one was out and competing at that level adding some oats helped. I always add vitamin e if they don’t have access to ample grass, and I really think that keeps them feeling their best throughout winter. It was just simple solutions with him.

I also hacked once or twice a week all throughout the year to keep both of us out of the arena.

I’ll send you some of my 3 year olds energy. Problem solved

[Nous]

Each horse is different and it can take some time tinkering with a feeding regime to find out what works.

I have a boy who can seem lazy, one of the biggest impacts on his way of going is not feed but the arena surface, he can barely pick his feet up on a rubber / sand combination, on a waxed sand surface he is very forward.

From a feed point of view I have added B12, Brewers Yeast, & Magnesium, I prefer to go for the “pure” type supplements rather than proprietary combinations so I can isolate what is actually working. I’ve recently moved barns and am now working on an arena surface he likes so I’ll contemplate reducing the supplements to see if they are actually having any effect. Otherwise he is on a chop & feed balancer, he’s a good doer so there’s no point upping the feed as he just ends up getting fatter, lazier, & explosive.

[Bogey2]

I have never found alfalfa pellets to amp up any horse in my barn…we feed it for other reasons. Look in to a performance grain, strategy may be too basic. I feed ProElite sr to my PSG horse who has always been a bit laid back. We also do ground work to get him a bit sharper, like making him march along when being led out to arena before we get on. We also do “sword whip” lol and next thing you know he’s piaffing and more under and off we go!

[beau159]

@xQHDQ

I’m looking for feeding or other management options.

He’s a 10yo KWPN who I have had since he was coming 3yo. Currently showing 2nd/3rd.
Current food: Strategy + SmartPak of Cosequin + Tendon supplement + multivitamin (that contains 5000 mg magnesium).
Just added SuperSport a few weeks ago. I see a positive change in his coat that I attribute to the SuperSport b/c it’s never looked this dappley over the winter in all the years I’ve had him.

Metabolically healthy.

Total random thought - have you ever had your horse allergy tested? It’s a simple cheap blood test from the vet. I had my first experience with that last year, and now I’ll never not have it for a new horse. It’s too easy! And then also, very easy to NOT feed them their allergen. Read labels. Be picky about your supplements.

Seems to me that if you want the horse to have the most energy, feel their best, and PERFORM, then make sure you aren’t feeding them things they are allergic to.

If you are really wanting to dig deep, you could also do some bloodwork just to see if there is anything your horse is lacking, or if they are good. More for peace of mind.

Now, I’m coming from the world of barrel racers but I have used products such as RedCell and FinishLine UltraFire before with some of my horses. Mostly either blood-builders and/or B vitamins with the goal of giving your horse that extra edge. Don’t really know how well it’s truly worked, and just still kinda comes back to good overallhealth, nutrition, fitness, and training.

@xQHDQ

I’m not looking for training exercises to get him sharper - thanks to prior COTH threads I have these.

he’s not the sharpest off the aids (my fault, I know).

I know you aren’t asking for training advice, but if that is still something you are working on and working toward, that is going to be BIGGER than any nutrition change you can make. If you need the horse sensitive and quickly reactable to your aids, you achieve that through training.

@xQHDQ

And then USDF Finals happened. He was super amped. He worked great except when we had to actually show and then he was also tense and super spooky, so it didn’t go very well. Nevertheless, I would rather have that horse.
Differences there were that he didn’t get any turnout, I fed him alfalfa-mixed hay, and of course, the electric atmosphere of Kentucky. He ate only half his grain until the last day.

Well, therein lies your double edged sword. If he’s got pent-up energy because he didn’t get his usual turnout, as you now know, that doesn’t necessarily lead to better performance in the arena. So it really still circles back around to training (which I know you didn’t want to talk about!).

So do you really want “amped”?
Or do you just need him really on point to listen to your aides?
(because even if you get him amped, he obviously still needs to listen and be focused on you to score well)

[dmveventer]

Yeah, I would be hesitant to try to get this horse amped from food if he already gets tense and spooky at shows and stall-walks/screams when his routine is disrupted. If they got that show-level energy at home all the time he’d be a total nutcase off property, and it would probably just stress him out more at home. You can train a horse to be more responsive off the aids at home and install the forward energy without sacrificing calm and focus.

OP, I second the recommendation to pull blood and have a conversation with your vet if you’re concerned, but from what you described it really doesn’t sound like there’s anything wrong here. I would spend a couple of rides in a row just being really insistent that he respond to your aids - put a little leg on and if you don’t get a response then BIG aid to make it happen, and repeat. I have a lazier horse as well but if I’m diligent about expecting a response he will rise to the occasion, and it doesn’t take very long to reset the expectations if I slip. If you give that a genuine try for a bit and still get no response or it seems like your horse is struggling then I’d consider more diagnostics or re-evaluate if the workload is fair for his current level of fitness. I was also going to suggest trying something like Tri-Amino to help with building the muscle he needs for the increased workload to see if that helps, and Super Sport seems to check that box so I’d just give that little more time to work. Building fitness takes time, a few weeks is not really going to make a difference. Definitely don’t cut turnout - you might get energy but it won’t be productive energy, and you lose the other benefits for fitness and mental health that go along with it.

[JB]

@xQHDQ

ust added SuperSport a few weeks ago. I see a positive change in his coat that I attribute to the SuperSport b/c it’s never looked this dappley over the winter in all the years I’ve had him.

Diet changes can’t make that sort of change in that short a time. The coat you have now is at the tail end of its life, having been 'born" in the first couple of weeks after the Summer Solstice.

@xQHDQ

amount of Strategy was increased a few weeks ago. Thus, canceled the multivitamin (was originally put on vit supplement b/c amount of Strategy to keep good weight was less than what package said to provide adequate nutrients,

How many pounds of Strategy and what v/m? It’s a feed horses tend to do really well on, or really NOT well. A great many v/ms are fairly useless in their nutrient contribution. For a horse who really needs higher nutrition but not calories, I’d be going with the upper range of a ration balancer, than adding some hay pellets if just a bit more is needed.

Has he been tested for any muscle diseases? Blood work for E and selenium, hair test for PSSM?

@beau159

have you ever had your horse allergy tested? It’s a simple cheap blood test from the vet. I had my first experience with that last year, and now I’ll never not have it for a new horse. It’s too easy! And then also, very easy to NOT feed them their allergen

Blood testing for food allergies is highly unreliable. Unless you get a “hit” in the range of 1000 or so, it’s not an allergy. And if you get a lot of lower 100s hits, you’re likely looking at a leaky gut situation, which in and of itself can make a horse reactive, or dull, or anything in between. Yes, removing the foods you get hits on can improve symptoms, as you’re removing the source of the proteins crossing the intestinal barrier, but you’re not fixing the underlying problem

@beau159

If you are really wanting to dig deep, you could also do some bloodwork just to see if there is anything your horse is lacking, or if they are good.

Selenium and Vit E are all you can test for

@beau159

Now, I’m coming from the world of barrel racers but I have used products such as RedCell and FinishLine UltraFire before with some of my horses. Mostly either blood-builders and/or B vitamins with the goal of giving your horse that extra edge.

Adding iron (Red Cell) isn’t the answer, even if the horse was actually a bit anemic. If he is, then the fix is adding copper and zinc, not iron.

If it IS an issue with B vitamins, then that points to a digestive issue (such as leaky gut) because horses make their own B vitamins when their gut is healthy

But a B complex is cheap, and should work in a few weeks if it’s going to work, then you look at why it was necessary

@beau159

I know you aren’t asking for training advice, but if that is still something you are working on and working toward, that is going to be BIGGER than any nutrition change you can make. If you need the horse sensitive and quickly reactable to your aids, you achieve that through training.

I agree, there’s a lot that doesn’t seem like it’s a training issue, but it is, especially with a more genetically laid back horse. Sometimes they can be trained to at least be properly reactive to aids, but at some point they simply don’t have the spitfire that a more “hot” horse naturally has

[Hawks_Nest]

Just throwing this into the mix. My guy became more forward and energetic in his work when we got him a saddle that not only was the right tree size but also had cutbacks in the panels for his shoulders (stubben aramis GP).

Otherwise, Vit E and Sel and check for ulcers because sometimes you wouldn’t think they have them but they do and that makes a big difference in how they react to your leg.

[atr]

Interesting, @Hawks_Nest. Mine also became much more forward and more interested in his work when afforded greater shoulder freedom and more moving space for his back muscles. (And he made me feel like a bad horse-parent, as the trick was simply to remove the half pad that I had been using supposedly to be nice and protect his back and mine… my back has been better since, too.)

However, OP, it does sound as if you have a genetically laid back horse who knows that he really doesn’t generally need to exert much more energy than the bare minimum to still be popular and successful in life, but was freaked out by the atmosphere at Nationals.

On the other hand, you could try feeding him Ultium, which is higher in calories than Strategy, and I’ve known a few horses to lose their calm demeanor on it… (Personally, I’d rather not be riding a horse that sees dead people in the corners, but you are probably younger and bouncier than me and your YMMV )

[atlatl]

Alfalfa is like crack to one of my horses. Once I switched to grass hay, he could eat 3 lbs of ultium a day and still have energy but not see the aliens …

[beowulf]

I think you already have great advice so far but wanted to plug that Strategy has never worked for me as a “high performance” feed, though others have had good luck with it. It may be adding a concentrate or additional calories helps.

I like alfalfa pellets to get calories into a horse. If you wanted a really old fashioned fix, oats…

[atr]

True, that! I like Strategy precisely because it tends to keep my Arab Sporthorse more on the mellow side.

[Sister7]

@RedHorses

Is Strategy a low NSC feed?

No, it’s very high in NSC. It made my OTTB hotter than hell… literally walking on his hind toes out to turnout in the morning at the low key barn he had been living at for almost a decade. I was coming here to recommend it for OP lol.

Found purina’s feed chart- looks like there’s two types of “Strategy”, on is 18% starch and the other is 10% starch.

[K_VanOlst]

@Hawks_Nest

Just throwing this into the mix. My guy became more forward and energetic in his work when we got him a saddle that not only was the right tree size but also had cutbacks in the panels for his shoulders

This tracks with my experience. I was amazed at how a sluggish walk turned into a march without any input from me, just a different saddle.

[VodkaRedbullx2]

Another vote for saddle fit! …but you can try real alfalfa flakes, oats, red cell, magnesium etc. But I bet if you upped the volume of strategy to like 3+ of 3 qt scoops both morning AND night you would have a firecracker on your hands (not saying its healthy just always notice theres this point when your trying to add weight to a horse where too much of that can make them really hot)…or try some Bute/equinox etc.

[Warmblood1]

He he always been so laid back? Is this new?

With the recent weight loss and seemingly somewhat sensitive temperament, I’d be checking for ulcers. Id also evaluate his feet for potential soreness. Maybe unlikely but I’ve had good natured horses with sore feet who didn’t present as off or fussy, just resistant to going forward.

If this is purely behavioral, I’d get him out of the arena. I’ve also had a horse that would get very unmotivated in an arena but absolutely thrive outside of it.

[paw]

Sorry - this sounds like a training issue to me. He doesn’t respect your aids, or that when he’s working, he’s working. But he could be just bored.

Have you tried mixing things up? Walking or trotting poles as you work? Changing up what’s in the ring so he takes notice? Of course, when you change the environment, you need to make sure that you’re always in control, so baby steps. But change the work routine (ride outside of the ring if that’s a possibility) and see what he thinks.