Ideas to Contain Hard-to-Catch Pony. Catch Pen?

[King_s_Ransom]

Some of you may remember our pony, Parker. When he arrived here 2 years ago, he was almost impossible to catch. We worked together and he got over it. I haven’t had a problem catching him since … until this week.

We boarded him for 10 days with a trainer while we went on vacation. We made this decision because he is Cushing’s and needs his pill every day and is currently on a semi drylot at home (120 x 120 ft. paddock) away from the herd. I didn’t want to risk him getting bored and possibly slipping out of the paddock somehow and getting into 20 acres of grass, and I wanted to be sure he got his pill every day.

Well … there apparently was a LOT of drama at the trainer’s as various people tried to catch him after turnout in their paddock area – maybe a little bigger than our paddock. I heard it took 2 hours to catch him one day, and that two girls chased and chased him another. Now he is reverted to his old ways – wants to rip away from me at turnout and I can’t catch him in the 120 x 120 paddock. He also has learned to pull the lead rope out of your hands if you’re not careful, something he didn’t do before.

So, yes, I will work with him again and get him calmed down and I am sure we will be good together once more. Hopefully it will only take a couple days and not weeks.

But – for the future when I may again travel – is there a fencing setup that would allow others to turn him out and bring him in safely without drama and chasing?

I once boarded at a facility that had a catch pen. Because I never had a hard-to-catch horse before, I didn’t see the point. Now I am wondering if it might be a good idea to bring Parker in and turn him out to a catch pen, where he feels a bit more confined?

Other ideas or suggestions welcomed. Thanks.

[mvp]

He’s a inveterate “free spirit” I take it? You have tried to sweet talk him about catching and he has also Met Jesus (as it were) with respect to being very polite on the ground?

I ask only because I think a big part of a horse not letting you catch him is him taking a cheap shot and reversing the hierarchy between you. I don’t accept that and I’d like to fix a training problem of that size.

But you have a pony, and he might be an older pony who is not in work and really doesn’t have any reason to converse regularly with Jesus. In this case, you work around his unreformed PITA quirk.

First, let him live in a leather halter. Second, if my fencing were safe enough, I might put a catch rope on him, as you have on foals, but a tad longer. Unless he’s out with others and/or stupid and/or the fencing is unsafe, he won’t get tangled in it.

But otherwise, you are right: The only options you have are bait, an enclosure and routine. It might sense to fence off a little section into the catch pen you are talking about and never feed him unless he comes in there AND allows himself to be caught first.

Yeah, but start with a leather halter.

[Bluey]

Well, you know the routine now, he should come along much faster, he will remember how you do things again.

Now, if you ever have to take him somewhere else, request he only have a run, where catching won’t be a problem.
When a horse has a run only, it is imperative that he be taken out a minimum of once a day for exercise, longe line or ridden, even better twice a day.

No more strange place and strange people and turn out for him.

I would definitely keep him very confined now until he remembers his manners again, if that means you have to exercise him more than you normally would.

We have a rule to never turn a horse out until we are very sure he will be happy to come in.
It is maddening, when you had Parker nicely trained, to have someone undo that training, grrr.

[King_s_Ransom]

Deleted – double post.

[King_s_Ransom]

Yes, I think the idea of a run for him, so he does not revert to old, bad habits, is the best one.

Please do not over-characterize my pony. He is a very fine pony. He is older (16), but he has clearly had rough treatment in the past (this is not just me feeling sorry for him, but the opinon of professionals) and he has trust issues with humans in general. I’m not saying he was abused, but rather that he was roughly treated and is the sensitive sort for whom this is counter-productive. He has lived in a halter (before he came here) and has the scars on his nose to prove it.

He does not need a come-to-Jesus meeting. That would only make things worse. I feel certain he will come 'round quickly enough and remember his manners. I am more concerned about how to avoid this when I have to leave to travel in the future to make sure he is not traumatized and no one gets hurt.

[cowboymom]

My horse was mishandled in the past and has the scars to show for it too.

But he also had to learn to be caught, and he did and now he’s good to catch anywhere he is. We did it by never ever letting him get away with not getting caught-we chased him with horses, 4 wheelers, motorcycles and cars if need be and let him rest when he was by the person with the halter. He learned very quickly.

If you’re going to spoil your pony b/c of his assumed past he is always going to walk all over you. Being that piggy about being caught is a horse version of flipping you off and I suspect you see it in other areas with him but he gets a pass b/c he’s been abused. The best thing you can do for him is to teach him that he can be disciplined without abuse and learn to behave himself.

[King_s_Ransom]

Let me be clear, just for the sake of clarity.

My pony was not abused. I do not feel sorry for him and he is not spoiled. The drama did not occur on my watch. I am not making him live in a leather halter, I am not chasing him with a four-wheeler or a motorcycle or a car. He does not walk all over me and he is not a piggy. He is a lovely pony who performs well, moves beautifully and babysits a 7-year-old like an old pro.

He came to me with a strongly ingrained bad habit of running away from people – people who mishandled him, were rough, and who likely thought they would teach him a lesson. And, boy, they sure did! Now he does not trust strangers and thinks he has to run for his life. You can tell the difference between a horse who’s playing a game and flipping you off and one who is scared for his life.

It is my opinion, and I am the one who knows him, that getting rough with him and chasing him down only makes things worse. And, with all due respect, I was not asking for training advice. I’m hoping to figure out a fencing plan that might prevent a problem from developing when I’m not around.

Parker is a very fine pony. He developed a bad habit before I ever knew him, and he’s not a baby. That has been his go-to for a long time. He was over it for almost two years. He went into an unfamiliar situation with people he did not know, who did not know how to handle him, and he fell back on every trick he ever learned about how to evade people he does not trust.

Bluey’s advice is right on point and not melodramatic. I’ll get the little guy back to minding his manners in short order. Then I need to put some fail-safe plans in place for when I can’t be here. I’d say that I’ll keep working on it with him so he will be good for strangers, but honestly, when he doesn’t run away, when he comes right to me when I whistle or call his name, when he stands nicely to be haltered in the field – it’s hard for me to remember that somewhere in the back of his mind there’s still a pony who wants to run away from people he doesn’t trust.

On the other hand, I probably could not have afforded such a nice pony if he was easy to catch. Dollars-to-donuts, this is the only reason he was even for sale. Lucky me, I get a very nice pony and if I don’t act like an idiot, he’s easy to catch, too.

[spotted_draft_x_fill]

Have you looked into panels? They come in all sorts of sizes, lengths and are easy to put together, move, and tear down. With those you can make any size turnout. Small, large, long, round, square or rectangle.

[Highflyer]

I think getting some round pen panels is your best option. They are nice to have anyway and if you have to board him you could take them with you.

[Calamber]

Have you ever tried tying ropes (onto fences, barns and other fixed objects) and just walking him in to a closed space? After you have him back to his easy to catch self with you, can you bring strange people in to handle him when you are there to ease him into being handled by others?

[arlosmine]

For the ripping away:
Put on two halters and two lead ropes. It’s really nice if the bottom halter is rope. Walk around a bit so pony forgets about the strange gear and proceed with turnout. Be ready to correct with bottom halter, and this is about the only time I’d ever utilize a treat with a pony: given on the ground after bottom halter is removed.
Try, if possible, to walk away before he decides to leave (he may still be munching on carrot on ground)

About the catch pen: we made one with hot tape. Fed pony in it for a week or two from a pan, so he thought it was a nice place. Then for a while closed him in it to eat, petted, did not catch. Then added catching and releasing in the pen before nice pan of food was giiven. Eventually we didn’t need it. No drama at all.

I have also used the walk-them-down technique, but you have to have A LOT of available time. It does work…

[kdow]

[QUOTE=Calamber;8152243]
Have you ever tried tying ropes (onto fences, barns and other fixed objects) and just walking him in to a closed space? After you have him back to his easy to catch self with you, can you bring strange people in to handle him when you are there to ease him into being handled by others?[/QUOTE]

I was wondering about having strangers come and handle him, too. Not to do any training as such, just to get him more comfortable with other people handling his care now and then so you can have a farm sitter or what have you without him losing his little pony mind.

If you do that, I’d start by having them come and help you while you are doing something he finds low stress (grooming, perhaps?) so that first they are just there while you are doing it, then they are doing it with you, then they are doing it while you are there, then they are doing it without you, and so on, until they can go and get him and bring him in with no drama. Best would be to do this with a few different people so it gets to be more of a ‘ho hum, another person’ thing rather than just he is learning to trust only one or two additional people.

(And of course, how quickly you move between the steps depends on him - you don’t need to slowly walk him through every step if he’s perfectly comfortable with some of them, you take as much or as little time on each stage as he needs. You want to spend most of your time working with him at points where he is not entirely comfortable, but not losing his mind either. Maybe 80-90% comfortable. Because if he’s totally comfortable all the time he isn’t learning anything most likely, but you also don’t want to stress him out. So I’d aim for the pony equivalent of “this is a bit unusual, but I guess it’s okay…” and then stay there until that stage becomes comfortable, then move on, repeat.)

[SuzieQNutter]

I understand what you mean when you say an animal is terrified. Everything changes. Their muscles harden and they can hurt themselves. They cannot learn. This is different to an animal that is scared.

Yes to the enclosure. Yes to feeding him in it and then closing it. Yes to you doing what you did last time to catch him.

After that when he is comfortable with you catching him again. In the enclosure I would do some face up training.

I think this should be done by you as you have his trust and shouldn’t terrify him.

Eventually it will mean that he faces up if you approach, swing a rope, bang something or throw something at him. From now on you never approach him to catch. He has to approach you.

After that I would have different people use This method for him to approach them.

[cowboymom]

Well, I know you don’t like the concept, but this is a training issue. Retraining him by chasing/walking him down doesn’t have to be violent and scary. My horse certainly wouldn’t have taken to it if it was, it just has to be persistent.

A catch pen is pretty much your only way to turn him out as he is but I hazard a guess he already knows how to avoid one of them.

Good luck with him, hard to catch is a very bad habit!

[BeeHoney]

I think a catch pen is a good idea, though it might not work if said pony figures out that going in the catch pen means he will be caught. Set up a few gate panels against the fence in a field to create a four sided outdoor “stall,” add a feed tub, and then get in the habit of feeding the pony in this pen daily and making it a pleasant place.

Unfortunately, I do agree with others in that being difficult to catch is a serious problem. There may come a time when your pony might come to harm because he can’t be caught. Even as things stand, I think it makes it really difficult for you to go on vacation again. I know you don’t want to traumatize said pony, but ponies are smart–your pony knows by now that you aren’t rough or mean, he just finds it more convenient to maintain his freedom. If it were my pony I would likely be quite a bit tougher about the situation.

FWIW, in my experience difficult to catch horses are generally horses that were unhandled as youngsters. Oddly, horses that have actually been physically mistreated often remain easy to catch.

[CHT]

I wonder if some sort of clicker training system would transfer to someone else?

Like if you blew a whistle before you caught him (when you have him catchable again), or blowing a whistle means a treat…get him so he comes to the sound of that whistle. That might over-ride his current issues with being caught, as he will have learned to come to the whistle rather than avoiding the person coming to him.

I am curious as to how he gets his pill too. Is it possible the other people give it to him in a way he doesn’t like, and this is why he reverted to being hard to catch?

[enjoytheride]

Honestly, I’ve had trouble catching horses in a 12 X 12 stall so a catch pen might not be easier for a stranger. It might increase their chances of getting kicked.

I would consider asking around for a NH type trainer to help solve your problem. A bad experience with people who shouldn’t be handling horses does not mean you will have a repeat, but does mean you probably need some professional help with this issue. We have some very good, very kind, very quiet ones in my area and this kind of issue is right up their alley. Plus, they’d be a stranger so bonus there. They can not only catch him, but teach you how to catch him, and make him easier to handle for other people as well.

[poltroon]

I have a pony living at home who is also suspicious of strangers. She’s not hard to catch but the anxiety manifests in other ways. The thing is, she’s right, because almost always if she is then caught, the stranger is a vet and almost always said veterinary stranger is going to poke her with a needle, in her experience.

So now I make an effort to have strangers who come to see my horses feed her a treat, especially if they are veterinarians and aren’t there to see her.

So your pony has an opinion, and you can choose to what extent you’ll live with it and not. There’s probably some value for him and for you to put some time into changing his opinion because someday his life may depend on him coming to someone else. Picking a time at your leisure to help him get more comfortable with strangers catching and handling him may be of help if you might want to board him again – ie, boarding him when you’re not going away and can go assist. Putting him in a 12 x 24 pipe type corral for those times may also be the answer - basically no one has to go in and mess with him until you return; they just have to feed and water him from outside.

A ‘bait’ situation also can work well. My 12 x16 pipe corrals open out into a larger paddock. The horses know they are fed in the 12 x16 and they go in readily. It’s an easy matter to lock them in or let them out without touching the horse.

[gumtree]

We do a variation of what BeeHoney talks about for the odd yearling that insists on being a bad boy/girl. We take 3-4 Porta-Paddock panels, tie one end to the fence post and form a “V” just far enough away from the fence line that the last panel can be folded back to the fence line quickly. Put a bucket of feed in the corner. When the yearling walks in we close the “door”.

If the horse is being a complete butt head about being caught 2 people can move/slide the panels closer to the fence line leaving little to no room to move around/away from the catch person.

The person catching the horse should be comfortable working in “close quarters” and know how to deal with certain sudden reactions.

This set up has never failed. We slide the panels against the fence line and secure for future use, schooling. But as BeeHoney said, ponies are smart. If smart is the right word to use.

[Zu_Zu]

KR ~ same plan you used last time ~ Parker will remember soon ~

KR ~ remember your plan last time ~ a book and time …

Parker will remember soon ~

Time and patience ~

Parker loves his family :yes:

but

Parker just had a horrible vacation ~ they didn’t understand his needs ~

• work your ‘home magic’ like last time and YOUR PARKER will re-appear !

Parker is a Lucky Pony !