Ideas why this horse's trot is so uncomfortable?

[Bank_of_Dad]

I was given this lovely horse and I really hate to complain about him because he is so great all around. He is a 16 yr old Crabbet arab that has competed in endurance and CTR since age 5. 100’s, 55’s, etc. He almost always finished in the top third or so. His last endurance was in April and it was a 55 and he finished in the top third. My vet has checked him and he is sound. I don’t know how I was so lucky to get him, I sold a horse and when I delivered him, the new owner said, “like, gosh I don’t have much room, this horse belongs to a vet friend in another state, she has too many horses, I’m just keeping him for her, I competed on him in April, he’s great, he’s sound, she wants to get him to a good home, less competition, etc. I’m sure she’ll let you have him…” and I talked to the friend and was gifted this great horse.

I know several people who competed on him in the past and all remarked on how great he was except how uncomfortable his trot is. They tended to canter him a lot.

I don’t know how to describe the trot except that its very rough. My friend says he tracks to the right, his neck is bent to the left. I’m not sure how to visualize this. Others have said he paddles. The left diagonal is harder to post to than the right, so I tend to stay on the right. When he canters he always takes the left lead, he’s really stretched out, no collection, its really hard to get the right lead. My left hip and leg seem to really thrust forward in the canter.

He has a really short back, nice slope to shoulder, sloping pasterns, all those things you look for. I am riding him in my old Stubben cause its the only saddle I have that fits him. He has been ridden in all kinds of bad saddles and has scars all over his back from rubs.

Am I making any sense here??? Soon I hope to take him to my friends dressage trainer and maybe I can get some actual live advice from her.

[Equibrit]

Have a good chiropractor check him out.

[hitchinmygetalong]

Ditto the chiropractor. Hopefully the dressage trainer will be able to give you some good advice.

He sounds “jammed up” to me. Has he ever had any suppling work?

[matryoshka]

Chiro, osteopath, something. I’d want to know if he has back, neck, or SI pain.

It sounds like he has body issues. Is one front foot steeper than the other?

[Diamond_Jake]

Another supportive vote for the chiro. Not saying an appointment will cure everything, for this horse may have been ridden this way for years, and it will take time to rebuild and retrain muscles that are used to going hundreds of miles a certain way.

Looking at the feet is a good idea, too. I have some similar issues we are improving upon.

Keep us posted!

[matryoshka]

I think the good news is the trot is one gait you can really work to improve, once you’ve established if he has any pain.

Following a chiro exam, massage would probably benefit him. I’d think a massage therapist could tell you whether he has uneven muscle development and suggest exercises to even him up.

[SharonA]

He sounds like my horse (an older Arab) when she’d been out of work for awhile. Very bouncy, paddling trot, straggly too-fast canter, hollow back, etc. After working with a good trainer, though, OMG, she’s like butter. Your guy may just not have the muscles to hold himself in a nice even square trot or balanced canter. He maybe is compensating for this lack of balance with his sheer physical ability, but if you both have the time and interest in some reprogramming and rebuilding of his muscles, the trot might smooth out and you both will feel even more powerful.

If he’s like my horse, he might be annoyed at having to change his style at first, plus it’s hard work physically for them, so you’d want to work at it in a patient, understanding way.

[ShotenStar]

I agree with the recommendations for a physical exam and chiro / massage work, and I will add: try slowing down his tempo. When horses are ridden over their natural tempo, they have to lock the muscles in their backs in order for their legs to ‘have something to push against’ to create the speed. Work at a slower trot, with some nice acceptance of the bit, may help him lift his back, thereby giving you a place to sit.

star

[pusher]

Sounds like he is totally one sided. Maybe his original owner or someone who put alot of miles on him only used one diagonal, never changing to build up the other side.
He is older so I don’t think you will change him but you can try.

[Auventera_Two]

I would start with chiropractor, teeth, and hooves.

[rainechyldes]

He sounds crooked, especially as he is always tempting the rider to always be on his stronger diagonal when posting as you said.

Also, being strung out, he is probably used to travelling in a hollow frame, and isn’t using his hind end for his main impulsion, which can add to the jarring feeling during riding.

chiro/massage therapy probably.
But it will re-occur unless you spend some time on lateral work and suppling exercises. Also pay attention to how he turns on the trail, does he lean/lead with his shoulder? (the motorcycle thing) as I call it. I’ve found a lot of endurance horses develop this tendency to not turn correctly and get stiffer and stiffer.

Also, while the slop of the shoulder slope is a strong consideration, it’s the angle between the shoulder and the forearm that is of primary importance in stride length. A good sloping shoulder with a very short forearm can be misleading - looks comfy, but it ain’t. Its the degree that the joint can open to that is the main determinator of stride.

As an example my main competition horse has an upright shoulder in fact.(as well as a nested neck) However because his forearm is very long, he has an amazingly comfortable and huge working trot, because the angle is probably well over 100% when he’s reaching forward. His extended trot clocks in at around 14 mph give or take and is just as comfortable. However he does take some solid schooling work to maintain, as he can develop a tendency to travel strung out when he’s not kept supple.

[Bank_of_Dad]

AT–thanks for reminding, the vet did say the teeth needed doing, have been done in the past but need it now.

Rainchyles–Can you say some more about the slope of the shoulder and the angle of the leg. I’m not sure what you mean about the angle stuff.

He definately needs work on lateral flexion and lateral movement. My greenies knew more than him.

Say more about leaning or leading with the shoulder. How do I recognize this?

Today’s ride was short and I kept contact with his mouth, firm contact when trotting. I think he felt lesss strung out today.

Poor boy, its like having an OTTB, but without the emotions.

[kookicat]

I’m not usually a fan of stuff like this, but you should try carrot stretches with him to help supple him up.

Here’s some info on them

[kip]

The dressage should help him out. A good trainer can help him straighten out and stretch a little bit more over his topline which will relax his back and improve the quality of his trot. Good luck!

[Bank_of_Dad]

Thanks Kookicat, printed it out.

[system]

Perhaps a messuse?

[rainechyldes]

[QUOTE=Bank of Dad;4304864]
Rainchyles–Can you say some more about the slope of the shoulder and the angle of the leg. I’m not sure what you mean about the angle stuff.

He definately needs work on lateral flexion and lateral movement. My greenies knew more than him.

Say more about leaning or leading with the shoulder. How do I recognize this?

Today’s ride was short and I kept contact with his mouth, firm contact when trotting. I think he felt lesss strung out today.

Poor boy, its like having an OTTB, but without the emotions.[/QUOTE]

Sorry I posted earlier today coming off my graveyard rotation at work, so wasn’t as clear as I meant to be!

I’ll try again.

An upright shoulder can produce higher knee action and rougher gaits. This is true definitely!
However what is also of major importance in determining this is the length of the humerus(forearm) in relation.

The humerus should be at least 50% of the length of the scapula, an obviously short humerus will result in a short striding(rougher gaited horse) regardless of the ‘lay’ or slope of the shoulder. As the length of the humerus also determines how the elbow/knee and fetlock fold so a a longer humerus allows more motion(angle) ie smoother gait. The shoulder in of itself is not always the single indicator of stride length or smoothness. (but we are all taught to look at the shoulder mainly it seems)

What I meant by the motorcycle lean as I call it, is when you are riding through a turn or around a corner, it feels like you are on a bike, where the horse is leaning into the curve with his inside shoulder.

A horse that does this very badly, will almost feel like you are about to fall. I find it easy to notice, because if I look down, it will appear that my knee (when in the saddle) or the horses shoulder on that side appears to be going through the turn before any other part of the horses body.

It is something I do see in endurance horses, where they don’t bend through their body when travelling at distances or speed, and it becomes a bad habit, and makes them very stiff. (and either aids in the development of other issues, trouble on leads, back pain, one sideness, etc etc )

If he did better today with some contact and leg support, he’s probably fixable. But will need some active riding, being asked to bend around corners, half halts to ask him to settle more into his hind end for impulsion.

gymnastics might help, groundpoles or cavelleti if he knows how to hop over them/ backing up/ a fair amount of practice in gait transitions will help him to start learning how to use his back correctly.

I don’t discount stretches, I find them extremely effective if done correctly. Athletes do need to stretch. If you can find a good equine massage therapist to show you how to do them properly they can and do help a stiff horse.

The carrot stretch is one, someone mentioned. Belly lifts are good, I also tend to use the poll stretch, asking the horse to flex ‘slightly’… just a bit from left to right, as well as stretch their neck down to the ground.(good for topline muscles) (cookies work well for this one)

As an aside, teaching an endurance horse to stretch their head down to the ground is a great PR trick - as it calms them and aids in reducing HR.