Due to some recent events, I’m starting to consider breeding my KWPN mare this spring. My most important consideration is temperament. I’m not getting any younger and although it’s very important to have a talented foal, the critter has to have a good brain too. The foal would be for sale but if not sold, would (hopefully be sane/sound enough to) become my personal horse.
Dutch horses aren’t known for being the sanest of the warmbloods. With that in mind, what stallions should I consider (or scratch off the list?)
My mare has a good brain but can be very dominant. She has 3 very good gaits, she’s very supple with a good hind leg and is very fun to ride. She has a long, sloping shoulder.
Her weakness is that she is slightly long in the pasterns and ever so very slightly back at the knee.
She has Flemmingh (on both sides) and Jazz in her pedigree so I need to stay away from them.
I like Lord Leatherdale and his son, Chippendale. Who else should I look at?
Well, I don’t pretend to know anything about warmblood breeding, but I do look at frozen semen broker websites a lot. So, I’ll just throw out some names for you to look at and have the more knowledgeable people guide you. 
I don’t even know if these horses are still KWPN approved. Anyway, there is Sambertino and OO Seven. Sambertino received 10s for temperament at his testing and OO Seven is by Rubinstein. There, that should get the ball rolling on your thread! 
What discipline are you breeding for?
The OO Seven KWPN gelding I owned was … “different” … and extremely frustrating and I found - afterwards - the OO Seven’s are supposedly known to be that way. “1 step forward and 5 back” seemed to be the rule of each and every day. Beyond wildly talented and when he was “on” - he was unbeatable and the most incredibly athletic individual going but then the next day he’d come out and you’d swear he had never been ridden before … 
The trainer I had on him was SO patient and so good with him and we’d swear when she had 2-3-4 good / great days in a row, we had made a breakthrough with him and then the next day he reverted back to “5 or 7 or 10 steps back” once again …
For that reason alone, I’d never breed a mare to OO Seven or have another one in my ownership again …
Not sure if he is still around, but I used to know a Kevekko son that was one of the best minded horses I had ever been around. The dam was known for being a bit hot. He was easy, good temperament, very trainable, and could be ridden by just about anyone.
Okay! Will stay away from OO Seven! I already have another horse who takes buckets of patience, I don’t need another.
I’m looking at dressage stallions. I like a very good walk and canter, I’m not so concerned about a flashy trot. Trainability and temperament are the most important though!
Any stallion approved by an Erkend registry will get you a KWPN Register A foal. That is good enough for registration papers, and maybe also KWPN awards.
Most of the European WB studbooks are considered Erkend - there is a list of them at http://kwpn-na.org/kwpn-erkend/
That said, you might want to look at a stallion like Don Principe. He is approved Hanoverian (as well as other Erkend studbooks, such as Oldenburg). He is a proven GP competitor, has a good brain, and is a proven sire of good-minded horses. (But don’t forget that every horse has a dam, and in your horse’s case, there is that Jazz in the pedigree…
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Sambertino seems very nice but I haven’t seen many in the USA. Is that because we already have Samber blood or something else? His get do look nice
I would go with the R line. Very amateur friendly with lots of capability for the upper levels.
I have a Rubignon 2 yr old who is a doll baby to deal with. Can’t wait to ride him.
[QUOTE=DownYonder;7938829]
Any stallion approved by an Erkend registry will get you a KWPN Register A foal. That is good enough for registration papers, and maybe also KWPN awards.
Most of the European WB studbooks are considered Erkend - there is a list of them at http://kwpn-na.org/kwpn-erkend/
That said, you might want to look at a stallion like Don Principe. He is approved Hanoverian (as well as other Erkend studbooks, such as Oldenburg). He is a proven GP competitor, has a good brain, and is a proven sire of good-minded horses. (But don’t forget that every horse has a dam, and in your horse’s case, there is that Jazz in the pedigree… .[/QUOTE]
Don Principe was my first thought, too. And R line/Rubignon was my second thought.
Rousseau supposedly has offspring with great minds, though he’s the one who just retired and there’s only limited frozen available now if I’m remembering correctly?
If you can find a kwpn approved stallion with a hanoverian g-line mare in the perdigree, definitely check him out.
Generally, they are intelligent, trainable and sweet and pass it on. They also tend to be quite powerful.
Thanks for the suggestions, I have some videos to watch!
Everdale…
I bred two of my mares to Everdale last year - one by Jazz, the other by Florencio - and was very happy with the two fillies I got. Hilltop Farm was a pleasure to deal with and the semen quality was excellent! Both fillies are already sold, too, so it was a very good experience.
Everdale and Chippendale have very similar breeding don’t they?
I bred my mare a few years ago to Welfenkonig II (Hanoverian). I am not sure how he will work with your mare otherwise, but he definitely “calmed the crazy” in my mare. My filly is much friendlier, much less spooky than my mare (though a carbon copy of my mare would have been fine as well).
Filly is also very athletic and willing. One of the biggest problems with training my mare was she would let her fear get in the way. So, initially taking her to a strange place and popping over a crossrail was an issue because she was worried about everything, including the crossrail potentially eating her.
The first time I took filly to a show was as a 2 year old and NOTHING bothered her. Other two year olds were spooking at parked motorcycles, tents, etc., but she didn’t care. She also went to a jump school last fall and while she was looky (first time at that indoor), it did not get in the way of working once we got to work.
He is a relatively young stallion (I think 7 now), but he passed his Stallion test (at the Verband) with flying colors and when I went to visit him his complete attention was on his handler/owner despite breeding season and mares in heat near the arena. He was 4 or so at the time.
He is probably worth a look.
Oliver
Am I crazy to think about an untested stallion? Glamourdale is breathtaking!
I’ve scratched Chippendale from my list, I watched a video of Carl Hester riding him in Holland. The horse is a wonderful athlete but he has an unfortunate walk under saddle. Im not willing to take a chance on the walk with Jazz in my mare’s pedigree.
Do you think that Jazz gives a bad walk?
The way I look at the Lord Leatherdale sons is that Hilltop carries, they all have Negro as the dam sire and then go back to different (German) grand-sires. Negro provides the power in the gaits but not necessarily the length of leg requires these days - that’s what Lord Leatherdale is for!
As I mentioned earlier, I’ve bred some VERY nice foals using Lord Leatherdale son Everdale and couldn’t be happier with the results. My Jazz/Everdale filly is the cat’s meow as far as 'm concerned, so I’m not sure what you are worried about.
I know it’s terrible to generalize with horses. I’ve known too many Jazz offspring with delicate walks.
My mare has a very good walk but because it’s so big it is the type that has to be handled with kid gloves under saddle. Any tension can bring on a slightly lateral tendency.
In Chippendale’s video, if he wasn’t absolutely on the buckle in free walk, he was pacing.
So, Everdale it is. He’s supple, adjustable, active. I love how uphill Glamourdale is, (and his walk is wonderful) but Everdale is more tested and has lovely offspring.
[QUOTE=Nootka;7940584]
Sambertino seems very nice but I haven’t seen many in the USA. Is that because we already have Samber blood or something else? His get do look nice[/QUOTE]
Sambertino lives in the UK - he is 22 yrs old now - & so has only had a few offspring bred in the US via frozen semen.
His overall progeny numbers are quite low in comparison to most commercial stallions - just over 100, due to the fact of being until laterly an unfashionable colour for dressage & for most of his life he has only been available via frozen semen!
That said his offspring have been remarkable in their achievements :- he has sired Grand Prix dressage winners in the US & Europe; Grand Prix jumpers - Australia; 1* Eventers - UK, Showing Champions - UK & he is also the sire of 2 International Para Dressage horses - Dutch Individual Silver Medal winner Papillon & Canadian Team Paralympian Inspector Rebus with Jody Schloss.
On his performance test he gained 10’s for both Attitude to Work & Temperament & I think the results of his offspring show its heritability:)
His last 9 doses of frozen are in store in Ocala, FL.
