ignorant question - what are the costs of a hunt?

[ellebeaux]

Hi all,

So I was reading another thread and it got me thinking about budgets. I have never hunted though I have been saying that I want to for the past five years. So I’ve read up on hunting but I still don’t know about the costs.

So who pays for everything? If a capping fee is $100 and 30 people go out 20 weeks/year = $60,000. Is that enough for the dogs and the Master of the Hounds and whomever else? Or are there hunt “sponsors”? What are the other costs besides the dogs and the hunt horses and how many employees are there? Does a hunt pay for access to land?

[keysfins]

May I ask another ignorant question, from another thread? What is/are the “MFHs”?

(Thanks for starting this thread, ellebeaux. I don’t hunt either.)

[Hej]

MFH = Master of Foxhounds

Capping fee = the fee a guest pays to hunt with a pack where they are not a member. Due each time a non-member hunts, and usually only allowed a set number of times before guest must join and pay season membership fee.

Hunts set a yearly membership fee that theoretically covers the hunt’s costs for hounds, staff, staff horses, vet bills etc. A hunt may offer different membership $ levels for juniors, families, individuals, and social (non-hunting) members. It is not unusual for the MFHs to make up any shortfall out of their own pockets.

[BeeHoney]

Hunts do not pay for access to land. Typically, hunts are allowed to hunt on land through the gracious generosity of landowners. Although, having a hunt around can (theoretically or in reality) increase property values–it adds an air of gentility to the neighborhood. In any case, landowners are held in extreme high regard by hunts and when out hunting all precautions must be taken to not cause any harm to the land, crops, lawns, livestock, fences, etc. AND hunt members must never fail to interact warmly and politely with landowners and other locals when out hunting–a cheerful “hello” and a smile/wave are a minimum.

It’s not cheap to run a hunt. Not only do you need to pay staff salaries (?benefits), the hounds and staff horses need a place to live (kennels and barns). Membership dues vary widely by area and by hunt. Capping fees are generally not much “sustenance” to a hunt, they are merely a way for people to either try out hunting, or to hunt with a neighboring hunt. Usually (IME) the number of times you may cap with a particular hunt is somewhat limited before you are required to obtain a membership. Hunts also typically host fundraisers–hunter paces, parties, auctions, etc. While theoretically a hunt should be able to survive through the dues of a solid membership, IME hunts occasionally (often?) do have unofficial sponsors who quietly make up budget shortfalls–sometimes very large budget shortfalls.

In short, if you hunt, no matter what capping or membership fee you paid, you still owe much to the generosity of many others–landowners, official and unofficial sponsors, unpaid staff, and other members of the hunt who volunteer their time in many capacities. So enjoy yourself thoroughly, say thank you, and when the time comes be sure to give back what you can.

[SonnysMom]

Other expenses may include a hound truck and inspection/maintenance of the truck.
Last winter the snow slid off the roof of the kennels and took out a lot of the kennel run fencing at one of my local hunts. So repairs to the fencing. That hunt expanded the number of hounds so they built additional shelters in the runs.

Our hunt pays the driver of the hound truck for each hunt.
There is kennel licensing fees in our state.
Minor expenses include: radios for staff, more tracking collars for hounds, replacement collars for hounds, flea treatment, vet care. The food for a working hound quickly gets expensive.

[keysfins]

[QUOTE=Hej;8444135]
MFH = Master of Foxhounds

Capping fee = the fee a guest pays to hunt with a pack where they are not a member. Due each time a non-member hunts, and usually only allowed a set number of times before guest must join and pay season membership fee.

Hunts set a yearly membership fee that theoretically covers the hunt’s costs for hounds, staff, staff horses, vet bills etc. A hunt may offer different membership $ levels for juniors, families, individuals, and social (non-hunting) members. It is not unusual for the MFHs to make up any shortfall out of their own pockets.[/QUOTE]

Sounds similar to a golf club, with membership (tiered for individual, families, social, too) plus fees for each round.

[FitToBeTied]

One hunt I belong to is small and it costs about $100K in expenses.

That includes care and feeding of 45 hounds.
Salary and benefits for part time huntsman
Truck/trailer maintenance, insurance, etc for hunt truck and hound trailer
Horses for huntsman and associated bills
Insurance
Maintenance of kennels
Maintenance of fixtures

This hunts a little cheaper because when we do trail maintenance the members will bring out equipment, tractors, etc.

Another hunt in our area runs about $250k in expenses a year but they have a full time huntsman and a part time kennel huntsman. They also provide housing for the huntsman. They own their own tractors.

So depending on how the hunt is run, the costs can vary widely.

Typically member dues only cover about 75-85% of costs. The rest is made up from caps, fund raisers, hunt ball and auction, etc.

Some years revenues don’t cover expenses and board members will make up the difference.

[gumtree]

The cost really depend on the Hunt as others have pointed out. Some, a lot may have all volunteer “staff”. Everybody kicks in what they can. Some may also have the good fortune of having folks in the area that do not hunt, nor have horses but enjoy working with the Hunt and contributing their time and skills/labor.

Some Hunts are well endowed being able to charge pretty hefty membership fees and having members who are in a financial position to cover any shortfalls. These Hunts have paid employees/staff. Professional Huntsman, Whips, kennel and barn staff etc.

Our local Hunt charges around $6,000+ per couple. Landowners of over 50 acres get a bit of a discount. Membership is limited to around 125+.

Landowners get an automatic first preference. But in the last few years there has been WAY too much “politics and drama” within the ranks. Way too much of a “self-entitled” attitude in our opinion. I like the social/party interaction of other Hunts I know and have ridden with. Ours has little to none. Even though it is pretty expensive to subscribe we don’t even have a “club house”.

Last year the Hunt sent out a fund raising letter to members, nonmembers, landowners etc. trying to raise around $60,000 to build a new Whelping kennel!
I build a lot of things. I know what it cost to build things. $60,000 will build the Taj Mahal of whelping kennels. Kind of a joke all things being equal to ask for donations to what is already a pretty exclusive past time.

So we just said enough is enough and don’t join anymore. It was a financial stretch for us as horse people that try and make a living with them to come up with rising membership fees anyway. Even as landowners. Sucks but it is what it is.

OP, the Hounds are never referred to as “dogs”. Though I like to “rev” some hunt people up by saying “those are really nice dogs”.

[Willesdon]

IME hunts have relatively fixed costs - staff, accommodation, feeding the hounds etc etc - which will be substantially covered by the annual subscriptions paid by the subscribers (like a golf club, as suggested above). The hunt members/supporters will also spend the off-season (i.e. when there is no hunting) raising money by doing entertaining things such as point to point races, shows, sponsored rides, quiz nights, running in marathons etc. which usually mean that an annual subscription is a full 12 months worth of fun and entertainment well beyond chasing after dogs. Hmm, haven’t had my Burns Night Dinner invitation yet…

[BeeHoney]

Re: $6000 per year dues: I have seen this happen before–when a hunt’s membership dues become too high, real horse and hound people start to be weeded out and are replaced with a demographic shifting more towards money as the common denominator. Parents, who in general tend to have less cash laying around, are also weeded out and thus so are their offspring, thinning the ranks of junior members who are the future of the sport.

[gumtree]

[QUOTE=BeeHoney;8444805]
Re: $6000 per year dues: I have seen this happen before–when a hunt’s membership dues become too high, real horse and hound people start to be weeded out and are replaced with a demographic shifting more towards money as the common denominator. Parents, who in general tend to have less cash laying around, are also weeded out and thus so are their offspring, thinning the ranks of junior members who are the future of the sport.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. When the financial crash hit, it hit a lot of people. But it was and still is especially hard on those that make their living with horses. We couldn’t afford to hunt. Nor did I have the time because I had to cut back on employees. The hunt was meeting on our property a time or two a month. I was able to go one day tacked up and rode over to where they were parked on OUR property. The secretary came up to me looking for a check, $150. I laughed an said you have got to be kidding me. She didn’t back down, I said well its pretty simple, either I go out with the hounds or you tell everybody to pack up and get off my property.

I suggest at a hunt meeting that the board should consider offering a “scholarship” membership to worthy up and comers who don’t have the financial means. Didn’t get very far. It’s not like it cost them a penny to add a couple of worthy young people to the field. I understand that Saturday fields can be quite large. But they could restrict the privilege to weekdays only.

[Hunter_s_Rest]

My hunt (in Va.) has a professional horsemens’ subscription fee, a good discount. I believe many hunts here do.
Seeing as pros often bring in the cappers, directly, and just as often are responsible (directly or indirectly) for new subscribers, that is very very fair. Very very appreciated, too!

[ellebeaux]

[QUOTE=gumtree;8444546]

OP, the Hounds are never referred to as “dogs”. Though I like to “rev” some hunt people up by saying “those are really nice dogs”.[/QUOTE]

Thanks all, this is interesting information. I figured hunts have to be subsidized by someone somehow or they wouldn’t be sustainable.

And I promise I will never call them dogs! Ooops.

[BeeHoney]

[QUOTE=gumtree;8445371]
I was able to go one day tacked up and rode over to where they were parked on OUR property. The secretary came up to me looking for a check, $150. [/QUOTE]

I’m no William P. Wadsworth, but that’s an impressive lapse of etiquette.

[Bogie]

@gumtree;8445371

I was able to go one day tacked up and rode over to where they were parked on OUR property. The secretary came up to me looking for a check, $150. I laughed an said you have got to be kidding me. She didn’t back down, I said well its pretty simple, either I go out with the hounds or you tell everybody to pack up and get off my property.

Apparently there needs to be a seminar in landowner courtesies at your hunt. Unbelievable!

[Bogie]

@gumtree;8445371

I was able to go one day tacked up and rode over to where they were parked on OUR property. The secretary came up to me looking for a check, $150. I laughed an said you have got to be kidding me. She didn’t back down, I said well its pretty simple, either I go out with the hounds or you tell everybody to pack up and get off my property.

Apparently there needs to be a seminar in landowner courtesies at your hunt. Unbelievable!

We have a landowner that I know who no longer has as horse. We had a ride that left from her land so I brought her one of my horses so she could ride with us. Of course we didn’t ask her to pay!

[CindyCRNA]

Wow. $6000 membership fees? Well, I would be out. I can’t justify it. Our dues are roughly $2300. Food alone for the hounds is $40,000. We are lucky enough to have a small animal vet in the hunt which I thinks greatly discounts vet bills for the hounds. And our kennel-man is paid but I think our master volunteers.

[xeroxchick]

All in all, I find that it is much less expensive than showing.

[GrayMare]

[QUOTE=xeroxchick;8447661]
All in all, I find that it is much less expensive than showing.[/QUOTE]

There’s no rule you can’t do both though In which case you should discreetly avoid discussions about costs.

But yes, in general it is cheaper than showing. And it’s much more fun. And a hunt lasts a lot longer than two, 2-minute hunter rounds and a hack. And there’s no interminable wait for your classes/turn. And you can carry a flask filled with a delightful adult beverage, which you can turn to if you find yourself momentarily missing the tranquility of the hunter ring–you know, after galloping straight down a muddy hill or being threatened by some sort of unruly livestock or crossing a particularly questionable obstacle.

[Hunter_s_Rest]

I did the math once - averaging 100 hunts, hunter paces or hunt trail rides or assorted mounted opportunities per year - averaging 2+ hours each = that’s 200+ hours of riding.
Plus a half dozen parties (hunt ball, hound show, puppy show, etc.) plus unlimited volunteer social stuff (trail clearing, kennel work days) that also curry favor.
Plus a couple hundred like minded acquaintances and friends – it’s like $.025 per hour of amusement.
You almost can’t afford not to become a member.