Ignorant reining questions

[J-Lu]

Because I know nothing about reining.

1. What are they looking for in the circle gallop and the slower circle lope? The geometry? Transitions? What could constitute a “bad” mark on these?

2. Do the they just want a clean flying change or does straightness matter

3. When they do their “turn arounds” with a planted hing leg and stop. many riders seem to “fluff” the horse with their legs in a very obvious say. What are they cueing with that?

4. How do they score this? Is there a score for each movement? Are there coefficients and are their collective marks?

Thanks for any insight!

A total reining newbie.

[roseymare]

http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/how_do_you_judge_reining

[roseymare]

https://www.google.com/search?q=nrha+reining+judging+video&rlz=1C1AWUA_enUS736US737&source=lnms&tbm=vid&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj_04rxiLvdAhVihuAKHYhWAAcQ_AUIDigB&biw=1440&bih=789

[bugsynskeeter]

@J-Lu

Because I know nothing about reining.

1. What are they looking for in the circle gallop and the slower circle lope? The geometry? Transitions? What could constitute a “bad” mark on these?

2. Do the they just want a clean flying change or does straightness matter

3. When they do their “turn arounds” with a planted hing leg and stop. many riders seem to “fluff” the horse with their legs in a very obvious say. What are they cueing with that?

4. How do they score this? Is there a score for each movement? Are there coefficients and are their collective marks?

Thanks for any insight!

A total reining newbie.

1.The patterns state 2 large fast circles and one small slow - although order of the circles caries by pattern. You need to demonstrate a difference in the size and speed of your circles. There is a greater degree of difficulty in the greater the difference in size and speed of the 2 circles. You want the large, fast circles to follow the same prints (as close as possible). The circles should come across the middle (X if you are familiar with dressage). Most circles are a little flatter across the center to allow the straight away when setting up for your changes.

2. You want the change the be in a straight line across the center. Some people cheat and do more of a change on a diagonal instead of on the straight away. You get penalties if your change early, late, trot, or drag a lead.

3. They are bumping their horse with their leg to keep the momentum and speed up.

4. Reining patterns are broken down into maneuvers. Each maneuver is scored from -1 1/2 to + 1 1/2. Every rider starts at a zero. The maneuver score is dependent on whether they did the maneuver average, credit earning, or credit losing. There are also penalties - like trotting, falling out of lead, going over or under on spins, etc.

[MHM]

Are the horses supposed to plant all four feet on the sliding stop? Or just the back feet?

[LockeMeadows]

@MHM

Are the horses supposed to plant all four feet on the sliding stop? Or just the back feet?

They can “walk” with their front feet and it is my understanding that is scored better than digging in all four at the same time.

[J-Lu]

THANKS, @Bugunskeeter, for such a detailed answer. That helps! And thanks for the links, guys!

Oh, Bugsnskeeter, I meant to ask why they had they had the horse spin, and then when the horse stopped, they “bumped” with their legs. Is that to signal to the horse that something else is coming aand hang on, pay attention?

[bugsynskeeter]

@MHM - you want the hind legs to stay in the ground the entire stop, without picking up either hind leg. You want them to “walk” in front as the stop goes on. Getting “bracey” in the front end (the stops that look jerky) takes away from the overall picture of the stop and can actually shorten the distance of a stop.

@J-Lu - They bump the horses after the spin before to get them to lift their back and frame up getting ready for the next maneuver. Different riders do this in different ways. My last show mare - I would bump with my legs to get her to lift her back, relax through her neck, and get ready for the next maneuver. Then I would squeeze her forward (if we were loping off). Other may use the bump to get their horses to lope off also.

[Bluey]

The first judges look for is for a horse that is “willingly guided”.

That means, the horse is soft and extremely responsive, any resistances are negative points, so is anticipating.

That overall picture comes first, then each movement is judged in itself on how close to ideal and how much the rider asks of the horse, the more is asked, the more difficult, the higher the score.
A nice fast spin may be perfect, the horse never putting a foot out of place.
Then, the more speed, the more chances to make a mistake, but if all goes well that is a higher score.

Reining is very technical, mistakes are easy to make.
It is not as easy as it seems when you watch them just cruising along.
Not many riders and horses get to show consistently successfully at the higher levels, it takes talent and well trained skills.
Watching runs in the Futurities, with green horses just learning to show, you can see who has the talent, but also see how easy it is to make all kinds of mistakes.
Once showing at the level here, with older horses, it is more seamless, the differences in scoring more subtle to see, it takes an educated eye to catch why one horse had a better score, hard to see where another one seemed better but scored lower.

[J-Lu]

Thanks, @bugsynskeeter ! How great to have an explanation from someone who has competed in this sport! I’m a dressage person, not new to training, but am very appreciative of your explanations about a sport I so little about but seems so interesting. THANK YOU for your input!

[MHM]

Just curious. What is the ballpark price range for the top reining horses?

[Bluey]

@MHM

Just curious. What is the ballpark price range for the top reining horses?

For the better stallions, the sky is the limit and not far for the better broodmares.

Futurity prospects from proven parents generally are around $20,000.- each side of $100,000.- , going by the public sales for those.

Generally a really good horse is priced guessing at what he can easily win and the buyer hopes he will do better than that.

Many nice yearlings sell around $7500.- to $15,000.- and some of those go on to make top horses and be worth way more.
That is what buyers of those yearlings hope.
Here are the results of one of last year’s such sales:

https://legacysale.com/2017-legacy-sale/

Reining is one discipline where horse prices keep getting higher.
It takes more money to buy the same talent you could buy for less just a few years back.

Here is a web site with reining horses for sale that is indicative of how horses are being priced today:

https://www.reinersworld.com/classifieds

[NCRider]

How much do they penalize for clear unhappiness ie severely pinned ears etc. would a horse that is technically superior but showing clear displeasure score better than a horse that is almost as good but looks happy to do the job?

[MHM]

Thanks. Is there a lot of prize money involved at shows other than WEG?

[Bluey]

@NCRider

How much do they penalize for clear unhappiness ie severely pinned ears etc. would a horse that is technically superior but showing clear displeasure score better than a horse that is almost as good but looks happy to do the job?

They do take points off for a horse showing any resistance, that includes badly pinned ears.

You may even get extra points for a happy horse.

[Bluey]

@MHM

Thanks. Is there a lot of prize money involved at shows other than WEG?

Yes, here is more:

https://nrha1.com/about

—$$$ MILLION DOLLAR EARNERS $$$
In 1993, Hollywood Jac 86, a leading NRHA Sire for many years, was the first sire to accumulate over $1,000,000 in offspring earnings. In 1995, Bill Horn, one of the sports founding members and leading riders, became the first person to win over $1,0000,000 in NRHA competition. These were astounding milestones for the sport of reining and prompted the association to institute a program that will continue to recognize individuals that achieve this level of accomplishment. Since then, a small number of others have joined this elite group - the NRHA’s Million Dollar Earners."—

Most trainers that are showing continuously and doing well have total earnings in the 10’s of thousands.

[findeight]

@MHM

Thanks. Is there a lot of prize money involved at shows other than WEG?

At the larger shows, Futurities, Finals and SBF yes. And they spread it out nicely so it’s not impossible to get a piece of it. The unhappy horse question depends on how the judge sees it. Is horse just super focused on the job or is it saying no? But if it executes everything correctly, it’s going to score higher then those with technical mistakes regardless. Ever watch a good Cutting or Reined Cow Horse work? They really get into it including flat back ears.

[MHM]

When I watch the occasional video of the top cutting horses, I always wonder how the riders stay on. I’m pretty sure I would be on the ground in short order.

It’s also hilarious to see a picture or video of a baby cutting horse, practicing on a calf without a rider. Obviously the instincts are there right from the start.

[Palm_Beach]

@bugsynskeeter

4. Reining patterns are broken down into maneuvers. Each maneuver is scored from -1 1/2 to + 1 1/2. Every rider starts at a zero. The maneuver score is dependent on whether they did the maneuver average, credit earning, or credit losing. There are also penalties - like trotting, falling out of lead, going over or under on spins, etc.

According to the AQHA Official Handbook of Rules and Regulations Rule 481, “Scoring will be on the basis of 0-infinity, with 70 denoting an average performance. Points will be added or subtracted from the maneuvers on the following bases, ranging from plus 1.5 to minus 1.5 : -1.5 extremely poor, -1 very poor, -0.5 poor, 0 average, +0.5 good, +1 very good, +1.5 excellent. Maneuver scores are to be determined independently of penalty points.”

[JenEM]

Is the Reining being televised at all? It looks like mostly just dressage/eventing/sj from what I could see of the TV schedule While I know exponentially more from reading this thread than I knew before, I find it fascinating and entertaining to watch, and really wish more of it was being shown. It seems like something people would enjoy watching.