TIA!
It depends on the school. If a school has a ton of fantastic riders, the beginner w/t person probably is a more experienced rider and can w/t/c and jump, etc outside of IHSA. If you go to a smaller school, the person doing w/t probably will either be a dead beginner or someone who really only can do w/t.
I think the fence height is Novice 2’3, intermediate 2’6, and open 2’9 but i think that also depends on the region. For example, if a school doesnt have horses who can go at that height, I think they can lower the heights. Not 100% sure about that.
Check out their rulebook…specifically rule VIII. Gives descriptions of each levels.
Tests that may be asked at each level are described in rule VI.
http://ihsainc.com/docs/rules-and-guidelines/2012-2013-ihsa-rulebook.pdf?sfvrsn=2
While it’s true the more competitive schools tend to have better riders throughout their levels, the riders still need to meet the guidelines of the rules. It is possible someone could protest their level at a show and the rider could potentially have to move up a level or two depending on the scenario.
For example a w/t rider is defined as follows:
Walk-Trot riders are those who have had no more than 24 weeks of instruction and who have not competed in a mounted competition which required them to canter or lope. Walk-Trot riders have two years of eligibility starting with their initial completion of the online individual membership form.
In the example given above, I believe you could protest that rider’s level and have them evaluated by the stewards at an IHSA show for appropriate placement.
Do you mean riding levels as they are categorizes and governed, or riding levels as they end up being in real life? The link comingback posted illustrates the guidlines for where a rider would be placed.
However, at least where I am, because a lot of people don’t show rated or don’t show at all it it can skew the levels. A good rider who has been riding for 12 years and jumps 4+ at home but has only showed a few greenies locally in the 2’9’’ would be advanced walk/trot/canter. A winning junior hunter rider who only does hunters and not equitation would only be novice flat, meaning she might show against riders who have only been jumping for 6 months.
It goes the other way too. A rider who wins 10 blue ribbons in an eq flat class is open on the flat, even if it was a summer of doing the 2ft eq.
I love my IHSA team and think the institution is well run, I just think grouping levels by show results is problematic. Unfortunately people cheating has made it necessarily to do so, as show results can be verified but amount of instruction cannot be.
[QUOTE=comingback;6537683]
While it’s true the more competitive schools tend to have better riders throughout their levels, the riders still need to meet the guidelines of the rules. It is possible someone could protest their level at a show and the rider could potentially have to move up a level or two depending on the scenario.
For example a w/t rider is defined as follows:
Walk-Trot riders are those who have had no more than 24 weeks of instruction and who have not competed in a mounted competition which required them to canter or lope. Walk-Trot riders have two years of eligibility starting with their initial completion of the online individual membership form.
In the example given above, I believe you could protest that rider’s level and have them evaluated by the stewards at an IHSA show for appropriate placement.[/QUOTE]
:yes::yes:
I would say most competitive teams will put you in as low a division as they can to increase their odds of winning. For example I had been riding for 8 years and jumped 3’ when I came in, but since I had never showed I was in 2A. Yeah, I could have done intermediate but we already had intermediate riders and I qualified for 2A.
You can bump someone up a level if you need to to fill your roster, but once they show at the upper level they can’t go back down. You can also ask for a steward check if you think the rider is technically qualified for a level but isn’t able to do it. For example we had one girl that had taken riding lessons when she was a kid but hadn’t ridden in like 6 years. She qualified for w/t/c (>24 weeks instruction), but hadn’t cantered in a long time and we got her steward checked down to w/t.
When a rider first signs-up to compete in IHSA, they must complete a very lengthy questionnaire about their riding experience. It asks yes/no questions about what they have done (# years riding in specific disciplines, placings at rated shows, Pony Club rating, etc, etc). From there, the rider is classified into a level (in most cases on the questionnaire, the rider ends up in the level they last answered “yes” to).
A rider can only be moved up/down initially if the school requests the move approved by IHSA stewards. In our area, this is done at the rider’s first IHSA show. They are moved down is the stewards agree that the rider is unsafe in the tagged level; they are moved up if they can so true competency
Larger schools will often try to place their riders in the lowest-possible level to help weight their team evenly across all levels (and give the rider the best opportunity in placing by being the more experienced in the group, vs least). However, you can’t put a rider with documented rated show experience in levels where the qualification is that you have never showed.
The questionnaires are submitted to the IHSA Regional President for that area and reviewed there. Also, other schools have the right to approach stewards and ask for the rider’s level to be evaluated if there is an issue (ex: rider is competing in walk-trot or beginner walk-trot-canter but another competitor knows the rider has showed in over-fences classes at rated shows).
Riders CAN move up in levels during their IHSA career as they place out of their current level (accumulate the required # of placings/points during the season), or if they move up outside of IHSA competition (ex: spend all summer competing on rated shows at a higher level - but in that case if they choose to move up in IHSA, they forfeit any points collected at the lower level).
Ask the local Regional President for details / clarification if you have any questions. All registered IHSA competitors have access to the placement questionnaire, IHSA rule book, etc online througyh www.ihsainc.com
One more question about IHSA rider levels. Is the placement dependent solely on rated show performance? Our area does not have equitation on the flat at rated shows, so my D only has 1 blue ribbon on the flat (out of 2 classes). She will be placed in either open or intermediate for fences. She has quite a bit of 3’6" + experience but not a ton of blue ribbons (good placings but not a lot of wins). If they count her blues in children’s jumpers at 3’5" (but fences usually just set at 3’6"), then she would have to do open. But with her lack of blue’s on the flat, does that mean she can do novice flat? Just wouldn’t seem right, as she has qualified for IEA nationals in open flat twice, and placed at nationals once. The coach indicated all riders would be placed at the lowest level they qualify for.
Placement is dependent upon performance at what the IHSA qualifies as “recognized” - per the IHSA rulebook, that is any competition sanctioned by USEF and/or USEA.
In my experience on the team I was on, riders are placed into the same division for both flat and fences regardless of blue ribbons on the flat (on a competitive team where riders are always placed in the lowest level that they qualify for). I have teammates who showed in the jumpers and are placed in intermediate over fences. They don’t have that “5” blue ribbons in the eq flat (because they only really did the jumpers) but still started in intermediate flat. People will end up in a different division for one by pointing out in one but not the other.
If the coach does place riders in different divisions for flat and fences based on blue ribbons on the flat, there can only be one level difference if the flat division is lower than the fences division - someone in open fences can flat one level down in intermediate, but they can’t flat two levels down in novice. But it doesn’t work that way if your fences division is the lower one - you can flat in open and still jump in novice.
Here’s an example. When I rode IHSA, I was in open flat and novice fences… The open flat came in because I won more than 10 blue ribbons at recognized shows in mini and short stirrup as a seven/eight year old.
[QUOTE=MoonLadyIsis;6548850]
Here’s an example. When I rode IHSA, I was in open flat and novice fences… The open flat came in because I won more than 10 blue ribbons at recognized shows in mini and short stirrup as a seven/eight year old.[/QUOTE]
Your coach could have at least dropped you to Intermediate if she felt that you were not ready for Open.
[QUOTE=To the MAX;6548889]
Your coach could have at least dropped you to Intermediate if she felt that you were not ready for Open.[/QUOTE]
How so? I was under the impression that trainers cannot place riders are they see fit - only how they qualify.
[QUOTE=Rel6;6548965]
How so? I was under the impression that trainers cannot place riders are they see fit - only how they qualify.[/QUOTE]
1303 Classification by Coach
It is the responsibility of the coach to accurately enter riders in the proper class
according to their individual skill and experience levels and in compliance with
the definitions and descriptions of those levels as set forth in the rules.
If you technically place in Open on your placement form and your coach says NO WAY is this rider safe at that level, they can move you down. I believe it requires validation from the stewards, however.
Yup. That would be a prime example of when to steward check someone down. Coach puts in request to have rider evaluated for a certain level. The person rides in the division they’re technically qualified in, and the stewards watch to decide if they think it’s a reasonable request. If you’re trying to be checked down and succeed, all points in that division are forfeit. If you’re trying to be steward checked up (some regions don’t bother with steward checks up) you have to ride in the lower level unjudged, and stewards again agree/disagree.
We had a girl who had ridden a lot as a kid but not since, qualified for 2B and we got her steward checked to w/t. She would not have been safe cantering in a group.
[QUOTE=kateh;6549140]
We had a girl who had ridden a lot as a kid but not since, qualified for 2B and we got her steward checked to w/t. She would not have been safe cantering in a group.[/QUOTE]
Exactly what happened with us.
Unfortunately I think that steward checking is one of those times (along with re-rides :P) when politics can come into play. If we needed a steward check our coach would plan it for when the most “sympathetic” stewards would be working, NOT one of the really competitive coaches.
It was also interesting to see how the coach’s standing affected the process of checks and re-rides. We had two different coaches while I was in IHSA. The one could get checks and re-rides fairly easily, partly because everyone respected her and knew that she didn’t call for them needlessly. The other had never coached IHSA before and had a harder time getting re-rides etc. But in Western (her forte) she knew all the other coaches from regular shows and she had more pull.
[QUOTE=kateh;6549160]
Unfortunately I think that steward checking is one of those times (along with re-rides :P) when politics can come into play. If we needed a steward check our coach would plan it for when the most “sympathetic” stewards would be working, NOT one of the really competitive coaches.
It was also interesting to see how the coach’s standing affected the process of checks and re-rides. We had two different coaches while I was in IHSA. The one could get checks and re-rides fairly easily, partly because everyone respected her and knew that she didn’t call for them needlessly. The other had never coached IHSA before and had a harder time getting re-rides etc. But in Western (her forte) she knew all the other coaches from regular shows and she had more pull.[/QUOTE]
Wow, I would have hated to ride in your region! All of the coaches in my region tried to be as fair as possible to the riders and re-rides were given often if they were legitimate. I was given a re-ride once at Regionals (the only re-ride my coach EVER requested at that point in time) when I maybe should have had no business having one.
When coaches/stewards care more about winning than about making it a fun and fair experience for the riders, that’s wrong.
[QUOTE=To the MAX;6548976]
1303 Classification by Coach
It is the responsibility of the coach to accurately enter riders in the proper class
according to their individual skill and experience levels and in compliance with
the definitions and descriptions of those levels as set forth in the rules.
If you technically place in Open on your placement form and your coach says NO WAY is this rider safe at that level, they can move you down. I believe it requires validation from the stewards, however.[/QUOTE]
Right, and maybe in the case of w/t versus w/t/c/ that makes sense. But in the case of open I don’t understand how you would get a rider moved on the grounds that they are not safe. For open fences you need 6 blues at 3’6’’, so how could that rider then not be safe around a course at 3ft? And for flat too, there really is no difference between novice, int, and open flat except difficulty (meaning a rider who isn’t safe to w/t/c in open isn’t going to be safe to w/t/c in novice either.) And would any steward bump a rider from open flat to something like walk-trot?!
[QUOTE=Rel6;6550331]
But in the case of open I don’t understand how you would get a rider moved on the grounds that they are not safe. For open fences you need 6 blues at 3’6’’, so how could that rider then not be safe around a course at 3ft?[/QUOTE]
Easy answer— some blue ribbons at 3’6" are due to one thing and one thing only: push button and completely point and shoot horses. Definitely doesn’t mean that they can pilot a strange horse over 3’ and absolutely doesn’t mean that they don’t get a good case of nervous on an unfamiliar horse and need to get used to changing horses often.
[QUOTE=hunterrider23;6550402]
Easy answer— some blue ribbons at 3’6" are due to one thing and one thing only: push button and completely point and shoot horses. Definitely doesn’t mean that they can pilot a strange horse over 3’ and absolutely doesn’t mean that they don’t get a good case of nervous on an unfamiliar horse and need to get used to changing horses often.[/QUOTE]
Not to beat a dead horse, but I do understand this I just don’t think a lot of stewards would necessarily take action. If you drop the open rider who won at 3’6’’ on push button horses down to int or even novice, what do you do with the int rider who only dd the 3ft on push button horses? The novice rider who only did 2ft on a packmaster?
Plus at least in my zone it takes a lot more than an easy horses to accumulate 6 blues at the 3’6’’. Its easier to do in the jumper ring than the eq ring, but 3’6’’ is still always a competitive division (ch jumpers, level 3s, etc).
