I’m sorry you’re having such a rough time with her. I think it’s great you’re willing to try a host of different things — she’s lucky to have you in her corner. My money’s on ulcers, but that could be because the Goober couldn’t care less about pigs…
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With the additional info she sounds herdbound. A lot of mares do better with some hours in a stall every day like another poster suggested. Can you try moving her to stall board with night turnout for the fall and see?
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My horses must be outliers because I think I’ve only had one horse who was terrified of pigs. Even my my terrified Paso Fino who was so scared of everything did not even bat an eye when seeing pigs. It’s a good thing as they are quite common in this area. Now I did get spooked off over some white flowers… my mare is funny about white flowers. She also has a paranoia about stepping in holes. She watches her steps and will zig zag if she even thinks there might be a hole. So patches of dirt or grass that are a different color are definitely cause for concern.
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Sounds like you’re on the right track.
I also brought a new horse home that became reactive, and treating for ulcers was the key. In the meantime, I also did some clicker training with her and TRT Method, and I think both of those were extremely helpful for building our relationship and creating some safe patterns. She’s back to the nice horse I meant to bring home now.
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Visit Tristan Tucker Training, he has some great free videos and if you like him get the program. I like his methods because they refocus the horse, not try to wear it out lunging etc. Ground work is so important to keep all safe
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I agree with treating for ulcers. Even if she didn’t get them when she moved, it sounds like everyday right now is giving her more reasons to be anxious. For a case like her, I’d at least start her on UlcerGard for a week at a full tube before switching to Nexium (and I’m a Nexium user myself). As for Nexium, you should at least scan the Nexium thread here - I know I’m in the minority but I use the higher dose Nexium protocol.
This is my first time learning of pig issues, but it’s not surprising to me. I mean, how many horses freak out about mini horses the first time they see them? And they are even horses!
I wish you the best of luck. This sounds like a lovely place and with three horses it’s not so easy to just pick up and move.
One final thought - talk to your vet about trazodone. It doesn’t have to be a permanent thing, but maybe your mare needs some help learning how to be quiet in this environment. Get her to a place where she can take things in without panicking, use either the TRT or Warwick Schiller methods, and then you lower the trazodone dose slowly.
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With further explanation it does sound like she’s herdbound. She wants to be with her peeps. Then, the stress she feels from being apart from them increases the likelihood of ulcers. Vicious cycle time.
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Take her off the Smart Calm Ultra, in fact take her off any feed which has any magnesium added. I’ve had two thoroughbred crosses who reacted badly to it (magnesium), the mare becoming very reactive and herd bound when she was on a magnesium calmer, the gelding not as bad because he was only getting magnesium as an additive in his proprietary hard feed, but it was noticeable his behaviour deteriorated when I added electrolytes which had a large portion of magnesium in it into his feed
Let her get any magnesium purely from forage.
You’ll probably need to allow 30 days for it to clear from her system.
Other posters have given some good suggestions to consider.
IME, you can’t “starve” a horse into a personality change unless it’s an overfed and underworked pony or draft X. Thoroughbreds often require a lot of calories to maintain their weight and doing diet restrictions to try to mellow them out will only cause them to lose weight. There are actual studies that show that alfalfa does NOT cause behavior changes in horses, so I wouldn’t worry about that.
My question would be, can you return this horse to the rescue? Honestly, she just sounds unsuitable for life as a riding horse. And she sounds dangerous–kicking the farrier, flying backwards unpredictably–sooner or later someone is going to get hurt. She’s going to rip back as someone has a finger caught in a halter ring or yank someone off their feet when they aren’t expecting it (hopefully not the pregnant BO) or fly backwards into something and then bolt forward over someone. The safety issues could be magnified under saddle. It’s not worth risking your safety to ride her.
A 10 year old broodmare does not have great prospects as a riding horse. I will echo @CBoylen, I have a facility that includes a number of TB broodmares, and no matter how sound and gorgeous these horses are, if their owners decided to stop breeding them, the hurdles to get them to adapt to a new lifestyle would be significant. Sure they are angels when they are in their comfort zone, but a massive, essential part of being a riding horse is being able to be reasonable and workmanlike in various environments.
Horses can be trained to do things, but changing their base temperament or changing their ingrained expectations can be difficult. A horse with this level of reactivity…it’s going to take a lot to make enough of a dent in that to make her a reasonable horse to ride and have around. Your description of the mare as serene and happy when surrounded by her friends or when nothing is bothering her but then having overwrought reactions and meltdowns when something bothers her or she is separated from the safety of her preferred environment or friend group sounds completely consistent with the profile of many horses that are not suitable as riding horses.
You also speak well of the rescue…and that’s no guarantee of anything. I have been in the TB industry and connected with the issues related to re-homing TBs for a long time. There are multiple well respected rescues that re-home horses that aren’t really suitable for re-homing or even that should probably be euthanized for physical and behavioral issues. Rescues count on new owners taking ownership of a horse’s problems, blaming themselves, and trying everything because they are now in a position of obligation. Also I doubt your mare just started cribbing…I’m pretty sure she was a cribber and because it wasn’t an issue when she was out in a field with her buddies 24/7 you weren’t told. I think it is a potential red flag that this mare never raced–that could potentially indicate a physical or mental issue that prevented her from doing so.
I want to end by emphasizing that you are NOT failing. Someone else (a horse in this instance) just being exactly who they are and having their own preferences, personality, and issues or just being stuck in their ways is not something to blame yourself for. It’s taken me a long time to understand this in my own life. You are clearly patient, experienced, thoughtful, and dedicated to exploring solutions in multiple categories. Unsuccessfully trying to fit a square peg into a round hole isn’t some kind of a training failure.
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Thank you for saying this—you sound like a thoughtful person, and I wish the people in my circle had been as supportive as you sound. I moved my mare in January after struggling to stay on the rollercoaster ride for four years. She got better than when I first bought her but it never went away; it was part of her character. Some thought I was crazy after all the work I’d put into her, but I’m so much happier with a less reactive animal.
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I don’t know if it’s fair to say the horse isn’t a riding candidate. A lot has changed for this mare in a very short period of time. She sounds stressed about the move, worried about the pig, and herdbound. Herdbound behavior brings out the worst in horses.
I give my horses the winter off (24/7 herd turnout) every year. Every spring when I bring them back to work, there are hysterics (some being better than others). If you saw how they acted on day 1 vs day 30 you’d be surprised! Most horses don’t do well being left in a field for years and then having everything change overnight. TB broodmares are like any other horse, they thrive on structure and need consistent, compassionate handling to set them up for success. With a TB Broodmare, really, who knows how much education this mare has been exposed to? It’s possible no one gave her the foundational education to deal with this new lifestyle.
I’m sure OP is doing everything in her power to make sure this mare acclimates. I didn’t get a clear picture from the post[s] what work is being asked of this horse, so I’ll put in my suggestions and OP can take what works for her and leave the rest (don’t feel you have to answer these questions, RR - some of them are rhetorical):
- How often is the horse working on groundwork while OP is there? Are you working on leading to and from the paddock? Does she rush or is she bargy? How are you teaching her to lead politely? How are you addressing her ground manners with the pregnant worker?
- How hard is this horse working (daily, three times a week, weekend warrior?) Is it light, moderate, or heavy work? Can you make this horse tired?
- Does this horse hack out well?
- When she is nervous, how are you disengaging her? What exercises are you working on to get her attention back to you and calm her?
- Are you currently comfortable riding her, or is she unrideable because of the reactivity?
- When working her under saddle, what is she working on?
- Is there a trainer involved overseeing this, what is their take? If not, can you find one? Even a second pair of eyes can help you more than you know. Last week someone saw me working my young horse and made a comment to me that just made a lightbulb go off - in a good way. Who is helping you?
Herdbound horses benefit from being hacked. Start small; a loop around a paddock, then away from the paddock. Rinse/repeat. For the very herd bound horses, I work them hard (appropriate with their fitness) where they want to be (AKA along their fence line), then give them a walk break away from the herd. For lazy horses, sometimes just trotting for 2 minutes straight is enough to make them say “nevermind, I’d rather walk”. This might not work for the “go-go-go” types – getting their blood up can sometimes work against you. For those stressy blood types, I might work on lots of lateral work instead. Don’t let them train you to ask for less either. Sometimes we get nervous putting the pressure on reactive horses - you have to keep the ask up, in a way they can respond positively to.
It’s going to suck before it gets better. Embrace the suck. Don’t expect a lightbulb moment in one session. It usually takes weeks of consistent work to teach them to confidently move away from the herd, especially if that’s been their arrangement for a decade. You can also do this lunging, or on the ground. Teach her to respect and move away from your space. Teach her to disengage her hind end. Teach her to pay attention to you and stop in hand when you stop, not when you pull on her face with a chain. Teach her to listen. You teach any horse all of this by doing it on the ground first.
I wouldn’t change her feed or hay, especially if weight is a concern. Start with the Nexium, and a clear, consistent workload with a goal in mind.
Not saying OP is doing this, just a general observation: boarders don’t tend to handle the horses extensively beyond the necessities needed to tack up and ride the horse. They don’t always encounter all the ways their horse is difficult to handle for barn staff - like first thing in the morning when the horse is anxious to get out of the stall. Many horses are simply broke to handle by the skin of their teeth - not all are lucky to have a handler take the time it takes to install the manners/expectations a pleasant-to-handle horse has. Barn staff can be inconsistent by no fault of their own (different workers, different competence or experience levels, different expectations) and sometimes even lackadaisical when it comes to manners - this doesn’t set up any horse for success.
Many problems we encounter with our horses start on the ground. Which also means they can be solved from the ground, too.
Sorry for the long post. I’m not perfect either FWIW. Last week I was grumbling to my SO about how I wish my mare was more like my gelding to handle. After a lifetime of handling other people’s horses, I was tired of rude and pushy animals. I put years of ground work training into my gelding, every day. It’s no one’s fault but my own that my mare isn’t there yet. It’s work and I don’t always do it the way I should. She will get there, eventually. It starts with good daily handling. Don’t let your expectations slip.
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Amen to all of this!
Put some structure back in her life and see what you have in 30 days.
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I mean, after nearly three months of being at a new facility the horse is still routinely freaking out and difficult to handle…I dunno, even if it can be done, is this an advisable path? I feel like sometimes people act like there’s some kind of a DUTY to train and mold horses into useful riding horses no matter what it costs in terms of time, money, and risk.
Even if this mare could possibly be some kind of a diamond in the rough, let’s look at the numbers. Let’s say board costs roughly $9K/year, vet $1K, supplements/meds $1K, farrier $1K, blankets/supplies $1K, etc. Based on this horse’s trajectory (after three months she is worse than she started) I’m guessing absolute best case scenario it will be at least a year before she is safe and enjoyable to ride. During that year let’s include one ER visit with the OP responsible for $2K of medical expenses (just a random number, I have no idea what her insurance situation is) and best case scenario no time off work/lost wages, no follow up orthopedic surgery, and no extended recovery from a concussion. For emotional costs let’s include one disagreement with the BO (who starts feeling uncomfortable handling the horse after some sort of occurrence) and the OP’s loss of confidence after her injury/ER visit.
I think that estimating roughly a $15K yearly investment to give this horse a chance is pretty fair. Trying to balance my pessimism with @beowulf’s optimism, let’s say there is a 50% chance of the horse successfully becoming a safe and enjoyable riding horse. And we aren’t putting numbers on the OP’s valuable time and the risk to her health and confidence. The $15K also does not include extra veterinary workup to find physical causes for the horse’s behavior (which could be a huge amount), major vet bills from an incidental colic or injury, or the cost of engaging a professional trainer for help.
I mean, just looking at it from a numbers perspective it makes absolutely no sense to invest $15K and a year of anyone’s time to roll the dice on trying to turn this horse into a riding horse and roll the dice on their own safety during the process. I think it would be different if the process were safe and fun, and I think there are a ton of horses out there that ARE relatively safe and fun to bring along and it would be totally satisfying and worthwhile.
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Are you serious? She’s had the horse for 3 months! If it were 3 years, I’d be with you, but jeez, give the poor horse a chance!
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So it can take years to get a horse with ingrained habits to a better place. In the interim, for someone who is limited to boarding and can’t set up the environment or routine to suit the horse exactly as they are today, what’s fair to the barn staff (in this case pregnant BO) who do need to handle the horse every day for basic care?
Agreed. When one is limited to boarding, you don’t always have the luxury to TT or WS the horse for as long as it needs to come around. Until the horse is safe to handle by any barn staff of varying skill levels, it’s a risk for everyone.
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With the added info, treat for ulcers and then hire a ground work person to teach you both exercises that calm the mind and get her focused on you. She needs a job.
Is she sleeping being on 24/7 turnout?
@beowulf shared good info.
I will say my horse is perfect for me but gives barn staff a hard time if they aren’t present and focused.
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Can’t say that’s an expectation I have of barn staff. They are overworked and underpaid as it is. Expecting them to be “present and focused” anytime they handle your horse is not realistic. That’s great you are able to regulate your emotions that way. You probably also have the self awareness to recognize when you are having a bad day and maybe make the choice to alter what you are going to do with your horse on that day. That’s not often the reality with barn staff. Horses need to be handled and turned in and turned out every day no matter what other personal stuff may be going on, what other fires or emergencies they had to deal with earlier.
The way I look at it, there are always going to be situations that come up that are going to escalate a horse’s behaviour. If it’s escalated already with routine things like turnout, or farrier, where does it go from there? What happens during a windstorm, or another horse getting loose and causing havoc, or during an emergency evacuation when humans are already stressed?
Basically OP needs to decide where on the spectrum they fall of “working with horses should be fun and satisfying” vs “duty to a rescue horse at all costs”. It’s a very personal choice and there’s no wrong answer (though I do draw the line when it puts others at risk, but that’s my own opinion).
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Only the OP can possibly answer, for sure. They know their situation best. It’s not without risk, as you pointed out.
I don’t disagree with your point. Sometimes we have to cut bait, especially if the horse puts people in danger. I offered my perspective as someone who couldn’t do as you suggest - go out and buy the horse I need. I’m coming at it from that mindset; sometimes you have to work with the horse you have because that’s all you can afford. I suspect many more are in this position than not. In doing so your toolbox grows.
That really depends on the competence of the handler. When I was speaking of the years my gelding has, we’re talking educational lightyears beyond “stand politely on the cross-ties”. Life skills like ground-tying while heavy machinery is operating 15 feet away, self-loading, standing on the trail and standing politely for remounting, being as polite for the 4 y/o niece as the 45 y/o instructor, tolerating inconsistent handling, ponying fractious horses, hacking past brushfire, pulling the kids around in a tube/sled, being the Young-Horse Sherpa out on trails, you name it. You can do things with my gelding you can’t do with the average horse - and that took years to install, yes. Someone probably could have done it in a shorter timeline, but not me.
But basic handling which is all barn staff would be responsible for, no.
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Respectfully, I kind of think all of us need to be present and focused when dealing with all horses. It’s when we are not that the unexpected happens.
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I don’t disagree with you, but having spent years at boarding barns I don’t think that’s a realistic expectation from barn staff every single time they handle your horse.
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