I'm getting ripped off on my lease, right?

[paw]

I’m in the “taken advantage of” camp, and I’m not sure how I’d feel doing business with this trainer going forward. The maintanence costs on a 25 year old working horse are not insignificant, but expecting someone who is leasing the horse for only 1/3 of a year to cover the full annual costs is a bit much. The undisclosed addons are also a red flag.

As for the saddle, in my mind it’s a tossup if the fit was custom for you, not necessarily the horse. Yes, it’s a lot of money and you likely could have (after a search) found something that would work for less, but as someone who was likewise talked into an expensive (for the time) CWD, that saddle has seen me through 12 years and 3 horses. So…

But it’s probably time for you to take a closer look at the program and your options. Sometimes the “best” show barn is not the one that’s going to be the best for you. What are your goals?

[Fiesta01]

@dmvevnter

I’m assuming this is a full lease. I don’t think you’re getting ripped off, this all sounds pretty standard for a nice show barn.

Well, call me suspicious, but I’d want to see the horse’s health record to see when the last “every 6 months” Adequan and hock injections and the annual dental visit were actually done.

I know nothing about CWD saddles. For those who are familiar, are they not adjustable at all? There might be a chance it could be adjusted to at least one/some of your future lease horses.

[clanter]

four month horse lease but doesn’t a CWD saddle take approximately 6-8 months to be built since it supposed to be custom built?

[Mouse_amp_Bay]

@Nikki

The prices you are paying for vet fees is very high. Dental should be $125, Wormer is $12. I don’t do joint injections cause my horse doesn’t need them. I use my trainer’s Bemer and he doesn’t charge me.

Hmm, not sure I agree. Given that dewormer costs $25 at the store, why would the vet be subsidizing my costs?? They can’t get it magically (much) cheaper!

In our (low cost of living) area, dentals are about $250 with sedation (routine vet, not dental specialist); deworming is about $30 when administered by the vet.

[blondewithchrome]

The prices for a FULL lease at a very nice show barn are completely reasonable, if not cheap, for some HCOL areas.

I do agree with many here that as a leaser, you should ask about any additional charges your lease would be expected to cover (like the vet work and Beamer, et). Are you the only one riding the horse, so it is indeed a full lease? You’re the one putting wear and tear on the horse for those 4 months so IMO yes, you pay maintenance costs and wellness/sports med costs that pop up during when you’re riding him.

Agree I don’t think you’ve gotten ripped off per se, but your trainer may not be doing a good job educating new leasers on what full leasing entails. Get that rate sheet, and make a note for your next lease to ask about how frequently owner assumes maintenance will be done and how ANY cost for the horse will be handled during the lease term!

[Jo]

@RR_John_885

My trainer owns the horse.

I’m old, suspicious and jaded. How long were you with this trainer before the lease? It seems awfully sus that your short-window lease happened to be at the same time as all this work.

What is your general geo? That would help answer some questions on the reasonability of the charges.

And I too would like to know when your saddle will arrive since it seems like you’re nearing the end of the lease…

[Nikki]

Why is a vet giving dewormer? You can get it much cheaper at TSC. It’s not hard to give dewormer.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/duramectin-paste

I pay $125 for full floating with sedation by my vet. My guy gets bit seats. He also has to get additional work due to a pulled tooth.

You’re getting ripped off.

[Renn_aissance]

@Jo

It seems awfully sus that your short-window lease happened to be at the same time as all this work.

Really? For a horse on a 6-month maintenance cycle for arthritis, which could well be appropriate for a horse of this age, injections and Adequan are often spring and fall- fall to have the lubrication on board headed into the winter months and then spring is 6 months later. I just bought my own $500 bottle of Adequan this morning. Dental work is also often spring and fall in my area because nobody, horse or dentist, wants to be involved in this procedure when it’s 10 degrees out. And if the schedule is that these health care appointments happen in the spring, the contract says the lessee is responsible for veterinary costs, and the lessee is leasing the horse in the spring… sure, a pro-rated approach might have been an option that could have been discussed, but I don’t agree that it’s unreasonable for someone taking on a care lease to have paid the full costs of the treatment.

Again, OP doesn’t owe us this info, but it’s an example of how there’s a whole lot of “it depends” that can apply. I think the best any of us can do is help the OP understand the kind of questions he needs to ask next time he’s considering a lease to make sure he understands the financial commitment he’s signing on to so he can make educated decisions.

[Bogie]

@RR_John_885

They’re not mentioned anywhere in the board agreement or the lease contract. I assumed they were part of the board agreement initially (before I got suspicious…I trusted my trainer) which is why I paid them before this month. Certainly I should have questioned it initially and that’s 100% on me, but in no way did I ever sign anything agreeing to pay it.

This is why people have written contracts. If it wasn’t spelled out and you didn’t agree to it, you shouldn’t have to pay it. As someone who has leased their horses in the past, I have always been very specific about what was expected, especially concerning maintenance. I don’t know where you’re located, but the costs may well be in line with your area – the problem is they weren’t explicitly stated up front.

As for the saddle? Shame on your trainer for pushing you to buy a $9K saddle for a 4 month lease. Definitely made her some money and left you with a saddle that may/may not fit the next horse you ride. Did you need a brand new saddle? Probably could have picked up a used one that would have worked (and already depreciated).

It doesn’t say how far along you are in your lease, but it sounds to me like you might want to find another situation once it’s done. It sounds like the horse itself was a good choice to help you improve your riding. Since the equestrian world is so small, I’d probably have a conversation with the trainer about how the lease contract didn’t jive with the bills you’ve received but likely would simply move on at the end of the lease.

[fivestrideline]

@Fiesta01

I know nothing about CWD saddles. For those who are familiar, are they not adjustable at all?

Nope. Not without sending the saddle off to be fit with new panels. And the trees are not adjustable. CWD also has a reputation for not sending the saddle back in a timely manner, and sometimes not sending the correct configuration at all (at initial purchase as well as at rebuild).

A pro panel saddle MIGHT fit multiple horses well enough. But OP gives the impression their trainer was very sure they’d be able to use one saddle to fit everything forever - a sales pitch if I ever heard one. The reps do the same. This is just false - how many threads do we have here about this exact problem?

OP definitely needed their own saddle. They were absolutely taken advantage of when being pitched THIS saddle. IMO.

[fivestrideline]

@Jo

I’m old, suspicious and jaded. How long were you with this trainer before the lease? It seems awfully sus that your short-window lease happened to be at the same time as all this work.

Same. If it was in the contract (Bemer and treadmill), and OP was given a heads up about the maintenance (injections), I’d be less jaded about it. Maintenance in the spring is common. It’s the sudden appearance of massive charges on a bill with no notice that gets me.

Here’s why the trainer owning the horse makes it worse for me: it means the trainer absolutely knew the horse needed maintenance and would be on the schedule for teeth. They are also the one who would decide if the horse needed Bemer and treadmill access. OP should have been informed, since the trainer knew they’re new to this.

[Bogie]

@Fiesta01

I know nothing about CWD saddles. For those who are familiar, are they not adjustable at all? There might be a chance it could be adjusted to at least one/some of your future lease horses.

CWD saddles need to be repaneled to be adjusted as they have foam panels. The bigger question with those saddles is the tree. My understanding is there is only one tree size and the factory adjusts fit through the panels. That’s not the best way to fit a horse (better to start with the right tree). I have only wool flocked saddles but I’ve heard that repaneling a CWD runs $600-$1000. Maybe someone with more experience can chime in.

[Midge]

@mika0116

wow - I think we have a lot of DIY / more experienced / been around as adults pre 2010 folks here bc those costs are totally on par / cheap

The costs are not the issue, the surprise charges for someone on a four month lease are the problem. ETA- and being a trainer-owned horse makes it worse, in my opinion.

[kenyarider]

If the aforementioned “extras” were not included in the lease, you can always just say I’m not paying for those. If it’s not in the written lease, then we (trainer and me) have to have a discussion about whose responsibility it is to pay for those things. Now, keep in mind there are general phrases used in horses leases, such as “day to day costs”, “normal wear and care upkeep of horse” etc. and those items may be contemplated as being in those categories. In the future, I’d make sure that my trainer knows that I am happy to pay anything so long as it is UP FRONT AND IN WRITING. Cleans and clears everything up. Saddles, meh. They appear to be changed as frequently as some teenaged girls change their hair: all the time. Sorry about that.

[findeight]

That is my interpretation as well. Costs vary greatly by region and general COL for that region and everyone who lives and/or operates any business based within that region. Comparing what costs are where you are with what costs are somewhere else is a moot point unsuitable as a base for comparisons and judgements.

IMO OP did make a typical novice mistake. One many of us have made in our journey with horses. Never ASSume anything and trust but verify.

IMO trainer assumed you would accept whatever you were told and you would never “look under the hood” and would not know what you were looking at if you did. That is where you did not do your due diligence because you just did not realize what things really cost.

It is a shame trainer did not attempt to educate you on what you are signing but the amounts here are, as noted upthread, are not unusual and are in the best interests of this 25 year old horse. I do not think a CIVIL conversation about disclosing all expenses you are expected to pay will get you blacklisted. Schedule a sit down talk ASAP.

Be aware there are other trainers out there who do take the time to educate their clients is such things and clearly disclose required actual costs in a “Free” or “care” lease. There are other lease options out there such as Half Leases where you get 3 days a week and month to month leases that leave the majority of the vet and farrier costs to the leaser, are pro rated or split.

Might be in your best interests to explore other options. You are paying a premium price for a safe near retirement Oldster who has no lead change.

On the saddle, it is a good brand and you need one, if you can afford it go on with it but there are other options and other top trainers who endorse a saddle but do not require all clients buy and use only that brand. As has been mentioned, your lease will be up before that saddle shows up. Just my opinion here but I would not renew the lease on this old trooper who has already outlived the majority of his classmates and deserves a softer life for his few remaining years. IMO. And you can do better for that amount of money.

[dags]

In the “not really getting ripped off but trainer definitely sucks at communication” camp.

In the end OP, you want to use this horse for 4 months and you want to accomplish goals X, Y & Z with it. If 25 year-old horse is going to be able to do this, he needs these therapies. If he was just sitting around doing general light work he could probably go without.

So no, trainer/owner is not obligated to get this horse up to spec for the lessee’s intended goals, but they definitely should have been upfront about maintenance costs. There’s certainly a bit of double-agency here that is not working in your favor.

[endlessclimb]

@dags

So no, trainer/owner is not obligated to get this horse up to spec for the lessor’s intended goals

What? So that’s how leases go? “Pay for the use of the horse that was advertised to be able to meet your goals, plus all the stuff it will take to even maybe get him there”?

If I leased a Bugatti for a month, I wouldn’t expect it would need a transmission within a week. I would expect it to be able to perform as a Bugatti right from the start.

[endlessclimb]

At the VERY least, the trainer should be pro rating the 6 month maintenence fee to the 4 months.

[fordtraktor]

Where do you live? 1999?

You can get a random cheap wormer and give it, but what about the cost of the fecal? Or do you just happen to own a microscope and have vet tech skills too? Or just not follow standard practice and give cheap wormer every 3 months on rotation…

And I haven’t paid that little for a float in well over a decade.

[Nikki]

lol. I’m a microbiologist.
Ivermectin is the same no matter where you get it.

The majority of the vets down here aren’t owned by a corporation so their prices aren’t high. There is one Vet facility that is owned by corporation and their prices are three times higher than the local vets. The local vets are better anyway.