I'm in over my head

[skydy]

[QUOTE=ccountrybum;8488101]
I don’t know what to do. I recently decided to get back into horses and bought two draft fillies (my first drafts), eight and nine months old. I have no other horses right now. The fillies were sold to me as “halter broke, leads, and ties”. They tie, but don’t lead. I don’t think they were handled at all as younger foals. We are still trying to work on leading, and I am trying to get them to pick their feet up- they have never been trimmed. One filly is all over me. She will be huge, at 14.2 hands and eight months old. I have never had drafts before and I have always raised my standard sized babies to be respectful and lead well. This filly has charged at me twice and literally steps on us when leading. I have tried to make her learn who is boss by putting her in the round pen and trying the “join up” method. No luck. I am getting more and more intimidated. I keep forgetting she is still a foal because of her size. I am afraid she is going to hurt someone if I can’t stop her behaviors. Should I sell her to someone that has more experience with drafts? I had thought about getting a mature mare soon to teach them herd manners, but I wonder if it would help me out. Any suggestions? Sorry for the long post.[/QUOTE]

Just for the record…

[2DogsFarm]

[QUOTE=ccountrybum;8488101]
I have never had drafts before and I have always raised my standard sized babies to be respectful and lead well.[/QUOTE]

Just in case you are really NOT a troll OP, I have to ask why you would approach these youngsters any differently than all the previous babies you claim to have raised. Even a “standard sized” foal is stronger than you once they get to the weanling stage. And newborn drafts probably outweigh you unless you are one hefty-sized human.

So I am baffled as to how a 14.2 filly has gotten the upper hand since you claim to have experience with bringing along young horses.
Even odder is your idea of getting a 3rd mare to “teach them manners” - how do you guarantee an older mare would work out this way?

Now if this is going to be a decent trainwreck I have to chill the boxed wine & break out the Cheetos (popcorn is so Old School)

[danacat]

[QUOTE=ccountrybum;8488101]
I don’t know what to do. I recently decided to get back into horses and bought two draft fillies (my first drafts), eight and nine months old. I have no other horses right now. The fillies were sold to me as “halter broke, leads, and ties”. They tie, but don’t lead. I don’t think they were handled at all as younger foals. We are still trying to work on leading, and I am trying to get them to pick their feet up- they have never been trimmed. One filly is all over me. She will be huge, at 14.2 hands and eight months old. I have never had drafts before and I have always raised my standard sized babies to be respectful and lead well. This filly has charged at me twice and literally steps on us when leading. I have tried to make her learn who is boss by putting her in the round pen and trying the “join up” method. No luck. I am getting more and more intimidated. I keep forgetting she is still a foal because of her size. I am afraid she is going to hurt someone if I can’t stop her behaviors. Should I sell her to someone that has more experience with drafts? I had thought about getting a mature mare soon to teach them herd manners, but I wonder if it would help me out. Any suggestions? Sorry for the long post.[/QUOTE]

The round pen method – joining up-- WILL WORK, provided you know how to do it PROPERLY. There IS a right way and a wrong way.

Since you didn’t mention your expertise–or lack of expertise with this method, I am assuming (since it didn’t work for you) that your round pen experience is either limited or misguided. Please excuse my frankness! :))

I would re-visit Monty Robert’s method-- learn and follow his steps (on paper first) until you are confident with the ‘language’ of the horse. Only then should you take your filly into the pen.

Plenty of mental damage has been done to horses by humans who don’t know how to ‘join-up’ properly. The language of the horse is specific and must be implemented-- on our part–with finesse and patience and accuracy.

Perhaps you can enlist the help of a trainer who is well practiced at using Monty’s methods or even someone else’s methods, provided this ‘other’ round pen method is sensitive to the horse (first)…and that the trainer NOT looking to impress you with their so called knowledge at the expense of your horse. There are many bad horse trainers out there looking to take your money and they will ruin your horse in the process.

[Sansena]

No… just NO to the advice to round pen an 8 month old foal.

[edit]

My advice is to return animals to previous owner. Or hire a trainer to board and work with them for at least the next 6 months to 3 years when they can then be started on a career.

Buying horses, especially foals out of an extended hiatus is a recipe for disaster. OP, take lessons for a year again… see where your interested genuinely lie now. They may have changed since you were active in horses before. Then lease something you like. THEN take that trainer you lessoned with for that year --the one who knows your strengths and limitations-- and go shopping for a horse you can enjoy NOW.

[edit]

[NoSuchPerson]

Since the OP hasn’t been back, I’m casting my vote for troll.

[danacat]

[QUOTE=Sansena;8488876]
No… just NO to the advice to round pen an 8 month old foal.

[edit]

My advice is to return animals to previous owner. Or hire a trainer to board and work with them for at least the next 6 months to 3 years when they can then be started on a career.

Buying horses, especially foals out of an extended hiatus is a recipe for disaster. OP, take lessons for a year again… see where your interested genuinely lie now. They may have changed since you were active in horses before. Then lease something you like. THEN take that trainer you lessoned with for that year --the one who knows your strengths and limitations-- and go shopping for a horse you can enjoy NOW.

[edit][/QUOTE]

There are many wonderful ‘lessons’-- I like to call them them ‘moments’-- that we can have with young horses (weanlings closer to being yearlings than foals) in the round pen-- none of which are at all harmful to their growing bodies, but do stimulate their curious minds. Poorly handled young horses will be able to SEE us and react to us in a non fearful, non aggressive atmosphere. Trust and a willing partnership between horse and man can then be forged.

“No…just NO to the advice to round pen…” sounds imperious and counterproductive given the OP’s situation. Troll or not. In three to four months his weanlings—should he decide to keep them-- will be yearlings, and they will be bigger and stronger and more out of control than they are now without some training.

These youngsters-- though they are under the premium age to begin work where saddling and riding are the ultimate goal of round-pen work-- they are certainly capable of moving around in one with gentle guidance. This is not to say that gentleness goes out the window when round penning older horses. It should not!

So many people have visions of horses being driven to exhaustion, around and around the pen, to the sound of a cracking whip, and flailing arms, etc. And I know there are trainers who do this with young, fearful horses (or any horse for that matter), chasing them into a state of pure flight mode where join-up is never achieved. Shame on those trainers!

Join-up can happen at the walk! At the trot! It’s really up to the horse as to how fast they want to move away from the handler.

But at the end of the day, round penning is all about the language, the signals, the conversation that occurs between horse and man. And this conversation can begin with horses of ANY age.

The round pen is simply a venue.

[Sansena]

Agree with the everything you said. However in he case of the OP I doubt they can decipher the subtle nuances in body language one needs to read in the round pen for OPs purposes. Hence my protest.

But I agree with you otherwise 100%

[danacat]

[QUOTE=Sansena;8489198]
Agree with the everything you said. However in he case of the OP I doubt they can decipher the subtle nuances in body language one needs to read in the round pen for OPs purposes. Hence my protest.

But I agree with you otherwise 100%[/QUOTE]

Well, we really don’t know what the OP is capable of. But, we can only hope!

[Moderator_1]

Please do you best to treat new posters with respect and the assumption that they are “real” people with genuine issues.

Regardless of whether or not we occasionally get a new user here who is posting without the best intentions, is it worth alienating someone who has mustered the courage to ask for help with a genuine problem, in the off chance it’s just someone goofing around? In the case of the former, you risk running off someone with an interest that we all share, who needs help. In the latter, you only risk wasting a little time…and might end up helping someone else reading in the process.

We removed some comments and their responses for that reason.
Thanks,
Mod 1

[cloudyandcallie]

Call Luis Guerrero over in Bloomingdales/Pooler GA just west of Savannah and ask him if he will go over as far as where you live in Timmonsville, is it?. He is very reasonable in cost and is a great trainer. (I never had to use him because I buy made horses, I know better than to try to train horses, but I’ve seen him in action training for people I know. He is wonderful.)

(Someone told me you are in SC, if not, ignore this post.)

[ccountrybum]

For those of you who responded to my post with respect and honest concern, Thank You. For the others- you don’t know me or how much experience I have with horses. Your implications and assumptions hurt. I posted here when I was emotionally hurt that my filly charged at me twice, which I have never dealt with. I guess I learned my lesson. I don’t need the bashing and negativity.

[Sansena]

Please accept my sincerest apologies ccountrybum. I’ve been where you are and am embarrassed to say had been treated as I treated you here. It was uncalled for and I’m sorry I hurt your feelings.

FWIW, My horse was too much for me at the time --even though I thought he was well within my abilities. Took 5 trainers to finally find one to fix his little red wagon. And we’re due for another tune up again. He’s above my skill level still.

Hope things work out for you and yours.

[IPEsq]

What body position were you in when the filly charged you? Were you walking in front of her or did she move sideways into you? The goal is to keep her at your shoulder. Use a chain lead and a dressage whip if needed to help you achieve this. Small treats can help reward correct behavior at first. I find that helps keep their focus on you and helps with teaching them voice aids.

[BatataHead]

CCountrybum, did you have a specific goal, vision, or “dream” when you got back into horses (I know I did:) )? What did you imagine yourself doing in your new horse life and how do these fillies fit in? Did you want to train these girls to drive, or have riding horses for you and your husband, or just have some horses on the property to care for? Was part of your goal doing their training yourself? Or did these girls just kind of fall into your life?

Seems like understanding what you really want to do with your horse life is important in deciding how to proceed (either with these girls or without them).

[Ruth0552]

OP, there have been a series of people coming on here and asking things that would make an experienced horse person go :eek: basically just to stir up some drama because they are bored.

It is definitely commendable that you recognize that you need some help.

So, like 15-20 years ago, I used to be a very brave and decent downhill skier. Never took a lesson or did that whole snowplowing thing- it just came easily to me. Certainly I was not a prodigy or anything, but I was safe and it was very fun. I think like my 5th time skiing I was at the summit on Loon Mountain on experienced skier trails. Since then, I’ve had 1 major back injury from a horse back riding accident and obviously I aged (that was high school). I made the mistake a couple years ago of telling a friend that I would go cross-country skiing with her. It was the most awful experience. It was nothing like downhill and the angle that my back was pitched at put a lot of pressure on my lower back and I was practically in tears by the time I got in my car. I have learned my lesson!

So perhaps, if you are getting back into horses, some lessons with a knowledgeable trainer and a lease or buying a nice Been There Done That kinda horse might have been a better course of action. Like you, I made the mistake of thinking that a similar activity (downhill vs. cross country, regular horses vs. draft horse foals) would be the same. It is not.

Safety is always my #1 priority with horses. If the filly is charging you and not listening, then you are not safe.

Find a very good trainer to help you, or sell/rehome the babies to get a safer mount. If you are interested in doing a lot of ground work, and not as interested in riding, I would recommend a mini.

Best of luck!

[Kachina]

OP-Yikes! That is a frustrating and scary situation! Good for you to know that you are in danger. The other thing is, that the fillies are in danger too. It takes so much skill and experience to sort out beasties that are dangerously unmannerly. The sooner you move them on to a very skilled new owner/trainer, the less likely it is that down the road they will end up in a kill pen in company with well trained, safe horses going to a horrible end. Take care of yourself and them too by getting those babies to someone who can gently but firmly sort them out before they get any bigger. ASAP! And get yourself a mature, reliable, fun and safe mount that you can enjoy. Meantime, please be careful and good luck!

[BeeHoney]

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with admitting you are in over your head and returning or re-selling. I repeat, NOTHING.

I am a lifetime horse person with experience handling all ages and types of horses. I had some health issues a few years ago and sold (at a loss) a couple of horses that I was not up to dealing with. Looking back, it was a great decision.

Even now, no longer with any health issues, I have no interest in risking my health and safety dealing with needlessly difficult horses. There are a LOT of decent, gentle, easy tempered horses out there.

Otherwise, if you have an aversion to selling, then I recommend you involve a professional trainer. Send the horse/s off to a trainer for a few months for some proper training and then re-evaluate the situation.

FWIW, you are NOT the first person to be in over your head with a particular horse. It happens all the time. There is no shame in it. Just be smart about being safe and reasonable. Would you keep a dog that you felt was endangering you? If not, why would you keep a 1000+ lb. horse that was doing so? Just some food for thought.

I didn’t read all the posts, but Kachina’s is VERY well put. Moving the horses to a situation where they can quickly be put into line with some proper training is the best thing for THEM, too.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[ChelseaR]

If a young horse misbehaving hurts your feelings then you have no business being around young horses without the help of an experienced trainer. Young horses sometimes test their limits - it’s just what they do and part of growing up - kind of like human teenagers.

It really doesn’t sound like you are in a good situation to train these two babies (and yes no matter how large an eight month weanling is a baby) by yourself. Do you board? Or have them at home? Hopefully there is at least someone else around when you are handling them?

[chebeau]

Let’s see some pics of your fillies. Also, what draft breed are they? Do you have access to a trainer or someone experienced with draft babies? What is your eventual goal with them? Riding, driving, or both?

Being in over your head without help is scary and can be dangerous. Hopefully you can find help or return the fillies to the breeder if that is the better option. Good luck with making the decision that is best for you and your fillies.

Happy riding,
Jessie

[AKB]

Talk with Gentle Giants Draft Rescue in Maryland. Christine may be able to suggest a good draft trainer in your area.