So say I’ve got two cars. One has a diesel engine, one gasoline. The cars serve the same purpose but use different means to do so. They’ve each got their strengths and weaknesses. But let’s say I decide to race them, but to make it an “equal” study I put gas in the diesel engine. Obviously the diesel car will now lose the race (since I’ve now killed the engine). Does that mean that the diesel car is no good or does it mean that I was too stupid to know how to make it work properly?
To clarify to other above poster, when I spoke with Dr. Clayton she did not say her study was moot. I asked her if they used regular saddle pads or treeless specific pads- they used regular ones. She also used my mare in a sport horse evaluation demonstration and could not find any issue with her back.
The pictures are blurry on my phone but you don’t look fat at all to me.
I honestly can’t believe that anyone in 2016 would think treeless saddles are bad. Of course, they won’t work for some horses or riders for various reasons. But by and large they work for many, for all kinds of riding, certainly endurance! I love treeless for my Arabs. I rode My now 21 y.o. endurance horse with a treed saddle for many years and he did great~ no sore back ever, sound, etc. But then I tries a treeless (barefoot cheyenne) and I was AMAZED at how much better he moved, particuarly at the canter.
My Arab mare,who is very round and short coupled, I have never been able to find a treed saddle that fits. I got an Ansur dressage saddle and she is going super in that. I’ve been so happy with treeless for those two. My tb. is retired now so I don’t ride him much, I’m not sure how treeless would work with him as he is built so much narrower than the Arabs.
I am a small person but I do see fairly heavy people doing 50s in treeless so I would not rule it out. Its worth a try for sure
Another aspect of treeless saddles is their design and structure. Some have more structure to them and better rider weight distribution, Some have a better design for the rider stirrup weight distribution than others. Within a saddle brand they may have some models that distribute weight better than others. And yes the saddle pad is important. The pad is often used to customize the fit and leveling of the saddle to a specific horse. I love having the ability to set my saddle on a downhill horse and level it with shims in a pad, then be able to move the same saddle to a dipped back horse and shim the pad to “level” the horse’s dip.
I have a Startrekk treeless, Icelandic model that has a LOT of structure. It is made of layers of leather sewn into a “tree” like structure which has moderate flex. I uses metal gullet plates similar to the Bates/Wintec saddles. It is a beautiful saddle, show quality, several models made.
There are several treeless saddles with the multple leather layers used to give flexible structure. There are other saddles with a flexible base of man made materials. My Ghost saddle is like this. So there are lot’s of options out there.
My experience with the Sensation wasn’t as successful as I had hoped and some of it was probably due to rider weight. I also only tried one of the models. But I understand why the mfgr has a recommended weight limit for their saddles due to their saddle design.
I you ride a lot at a posting trot then you do want a treeless saddle that has a design the distributes the rider’s STIRRUP weight over a larger area. Few saddle dealers and makers give you very much real information about their saddle construction. Maybe three small pics and a choice of leather colors. Marlene Moss, www.badlandsequine.com is the USA Ghost dealer. She has an excellent and informative web site with details of Ghost saddle trials on multiple horses and various riders. She is also a long time endurance rider. Good reading there.
I do not think you are too big for a treeless saddle. I’m almost six feet tall and pushing 200 lbs and I trail ride in a ghost saddle with the ghost pad. It’s incredibly comfortable. My saddle fitter (I also ride in treed saddles) was at my barn last week and liked the ghost because you can adjust the size of the gullet. He’s NOT a fan of treeless saddles but he said my set up was fine and that my horses’ backs had no issues.
Now, in my treeless saddle I am not galloping for hours on end (like foxhunting) but I’m out for usually an hour and a half or so at a variety of paces.
I agree that the designs vary so widely~ just like ANY saddle! I never found a treed saddle that fit my extremely round Arab well enough…they all slid forward on her to some extent and impeded her shoulder movement. The Barefoot Cheyenne did as well. But the Ansur doesn’t and seems to be a percect fit for her. I just use a regular pad with it for her. (I do use my pricey, beloved Equipedic with my Cheyenne for my gelding).
Thanks for all the input!
To answer a few questions…
I’m 5 foot 3 and I weigh 195. Working on that (weight not the height !) But that’s where I am right now !
My horse is a 16.1 and a half TB , 10 years old in good weight and soundness.
I ride in a Pessoa Legacy most of the time, I do have a dressage saddle but I hate it, I have tight hips and it makes me feel like I’m being ripped in half from the crotch. Lol
I went towards treeless because when I did searches for “most comfortable trail saddles” everyone seemed to suggest them. I love my jump saddle but for longer rides it’s not the best.
[QUOTE=Meredith Clark;8720880]
My horse is a 16.1 and a half TB , 10 years old in good weight and soundness.
I do have a dressage saddle but I hate it, I have tight hips and it makes me feel like I’m being ripped in half from the crotch. Lol
I went towards treeless because when I did searches for “most comfortable trail saddles” everyone seemed to suggest them. I love my jump saddle but for longer rides it’s not the best.[/QUOTE]
A couple things…
The sensations are one of the more unstructured of the treeless - I could not get my guy comfortable in one. He has an a-frame type back, and the mfr. indicates that they don’t work for that type (had the saddle from another horse and tried really hard to make it work).
If you have hip issues, the unstructured treeless might be an issue anyway. Yeah, they are MONDO cushy - but even w/ the sensation twist bolster in they were too wide for me to sit comfortably on the horse I was using it on (couldn’t stand any pressure on any part of a leg at that time…).
I would suggest you contact April Battles (april@treelesssaddle.com) and the Ghost dealer mentioned above. Just because one saddle isn’t right for you, doesn’t mean there isn’t one that will work. I am a bit heavier than you and a lot taller. I have not had negative issues with riding my horses treeless, but different saddles do work on different horses, and with different riders. I love the Trekker, but it doesn’t work for my Sport Horse. It’s great on my Standardbred. I love my Bandos on my TB, but it doesn’t have the structure I need to ride the big gaits of the Sport Horse. Someone who will look at you and your horse and allow a trial would be a great option.
As for the weight distribution issue, there’s no reason to listen to people who are stuck 15 years in the past and unwilling to look at the current situation. A huge percentage of endurance riders go treeless, which belies that entire rationale. There is a group of folks that started riding a certain way 50 years ago and will not budge from that, all evidence to the contrary. That’s fine if it works for them, but it has nothing really to do with you.
I just want to chime in one more time: The reason the OP is looking at treeless saddles is because of “comfort”, somewhat implying that treed saddles are not comfortable. That, to me, does not make any sense. In fact, I have found the opposite. Just recently I did a training ride on a friend’s horse in a treeless saddle. The ride was ten miles or less but I was hurting in places I have never hurt before - and I ride at least one 50-mile competition a month during the season so consider myself very fit.
The extra work it took to balance and stabilize myself, two-point or post the trot evenly, etc., was mind boggling - why would you want that? To me this saddle/pad setup felt neither especially secure nor especially comfortable. And before anyone jumps in and says, you’re just not used to it or maybe they used the wrong pad, please keep in mind my friend is an endurance rider as well and this is their usual setup as suggested by that manufacturer’s dealer, and again, I ride a lot and in various other saddles frequently so my fitness is most likely not the issue.
In the end, the OP should spend the time really researching and trying a variety of saddles if she is serious about comfort not only for herself but also for her horse. And that certainly includes looking at treed saddles. Again, I can really recommend two very comfortable endurance saddles, the Frank Baines Enduro and the Solstice from the Arabian Saddle company.
[QUOTE=Lieselotte;8721620]
I just want to chime in one more time: The reason the OP is looking at treeless saddles is because of “comfort”, somewhat implying that treed saddles are not comfortable. That, to me, does not make any sense. In fact, I have found the opposite. Just recently I did a training ride on a friend’s horse in a treeless saddle. The ride was ten miles or less but I was hurting in places I have never hurt before - and I ride at least one 50-mile competition a month during the season so consider myself very fit.
The extra work it took to balance and stabilize myself, two-point or post the trot evenly, etc., was mind boggling - why would you want that? To me this saddle/pad setup felt neither especially secure nor especially comfortable. And before anyone jumps in and says, you’re just not used to it or maybe they used the wrong pad, please keep in mind my friend is an endurance rider as well and this is their usual setup as suggested by that manufacturer’s dealer, and again, I ride a lot and in various other saddles frequently so my fitness is most likely not the issue.
In the end, the OP should spend the time really researching and trying a variety of saddles if she is serious about comfort not only for herself but also for her horse. And that certainly includes looking at treed saddles. Again, I can really recommend two very comfortable endurance saddles, the Frank Baines Enduro and the Solstice from the Arabian Saddle company.[/QUOTE]
+1
G.
[QUOTE=Lieselotte;8721620]
I just want to chime in one more time: The reason the OP is looking at treeless saddles is because of “comfort”, somewhat implying that treed saddles are not comfortable. That, to me, does not make any sense. In fact, I have found the opposite. Just recently I did a training ride on a friend’s horse in a treeless saddle. The ride was ten miles or less but I was hurting in places I have never hurt before - and I ride at least one 50-mile competition a month during the season so consider myself very fit.
The extra work it took to balance and stabilize myself, two-point or post the trot evenly, etc., was mind boggling - why would you want that? To me this saddle/pad setup felt neither especially secure nor especially comfortable. And before anyone jumps in and says, you’re just not used to it or maybe they used the wrong pad, please keep in mind my friend is an endurance rider as well and this is their usual setup as suggested by that manufacturer’s dealer, and again, I ride a lot and in various other saddles frequently so my fitness is most likely not the issue.
In the end, the OP should spend the time really researching and trying a variety of saddles if she is serious about comfort not only for herself but also for her horse. And that certainly includes looking at treed saddles. Again, I can really recommend two very comfortable endurance saddles, the Frank Baines Enduro and the Solstice from the Arabian Saddle company.[/QUOTE]
You make a good point. A treeless rider has to be centered and balanced independently. If you rely on your saddle to do those things, treeless is probably not for you. Of course, I’d say that if you rely on your saddle to do those things, you should take some lunge line, no stirrup lessons to get yourself there. Your horse will thank you. That said, treeless isn’t for everyone. If you love riding bareback, you will probably enjoy riding treeless. If you like a horn, knee rolls, and high cantle to lock you in place, you probably won’t love it. It’s a personal preference, like most aspects of horsemanship. A treed saddle that fits a happy horse is a lovely thing. A treeless saddle that fits a happy horse is also a lovely thing.
I tried treeless, because at the time I was having trouble fitting my quarter pony in a treed saddle.
I did not find them comfortable or secure.
Couldn’t mount without a block without pulling the thing over (this may be a concern for you if you’re a trail rider).
With a TBx I think you may have problems with sufficient clearance at the withers. Also if your horse has any kind of a spook - and I’m not saying this just because he’s a TB cause I have a QH who can spook drop and spin with the best 
- you may find yourself on the ground quicker in a treeless.
I had a Trekker, ordered from Germany because at the time there were no local dealers. I ordered the Mattes pad recommended by the manufacturer. I did my homework. Oh, and I had plenty of lunge lessons, thanks. :lol: Still hated.it.
Don’t know if it would’ve sored my horse’s back because I hated it so thoroughly I didn’t ride in it long enough for it to do any damage.
Like you though I didn’t find my all purpose english saddle very comfy for trail rides. So I switched to western. Now not only am I comfy, but I’ve discovered all kinds of new cool things to do with my horses. Just sayin. 
I’ve never found the balance in my treeless saddles to be any different than treed saddles that I have had.
I note that the treeless folks are open minded and generally not critical, my way or the highway sorts.
I’ve ranch sorted, done hunter paces, ridden countless trail miles, run barrels (not well, but that’s me, not my saddle), and competed in quite a few trail challenges and charity rides treeless. You can do all those things in a treed English saddle too, if that’s your thing. If you are happier, and your horse is comfortable, riding in a treed western saddle, great. Implying that a saddle being uncomfortable for you, or not fitting your horse, means the saddle is no good is just silly. I’ve ridden is some very high end treed saddles that I have hated with a passion. They are still fabulous saddles, just not for me. Your horse, your way. My horse, my way. That doesn’t mean either is wrong.
[QUOTE=tabula rashah;8721801]
I’ve never found the balance in my treeless saddles to be any different than treed saddles that I have had.[/QUOTE]
If you are balanced and strong in your core, that is probably the case. If you rely on the saddle for balance, it probably wouldn’t feel that way.
Treeless wasn’t a huge adjustment for me, but I have always done a lot of bareback riding. Coming from a big old western roping saddle, I think it would be a big change.
I rode in my friend’s BMSS today and it was a neat experience. I liked feeling so close to him. It was a short ride but he didn’t seem sore and there were no uneven sweat marks or anything. The hardest part for me was that it was western and I’m not used to the deep seat and long stirrups.
I would not guess you were 195. You don’t look it! I am the same height and about 10 lbs heavier. (Working on that!)
I LOVE my treeless. More important, my horse loves my treeless. He is gaited and was hard to fit. I switched to treeless with a treeless pad and could tell right away he liked it. He was striding out better and gaiting more freely. No signs of back soreness ever.
You might have to try a couple to find one you like and your horse likes but that is with any saddle.
I was a fairly early adopter and bought the Ansur Classic around the turn of the century (geez, that feels so weird to write, but it’s accurate!) I bought it long before they came out with the gulleted model.
I loved it when I was a working student, going from horse to horse for lessons lasting up to an hour.
It worked OK for my mare for a while, again light ring use. However, now that my mare is getting older, it’s become apparent that she simply cannot perform as well in it as in her treed Specialized Saddle. I’m relegating the Ansur to my friend’s lesson program, where it’ll be used by light riders/kids.
I’ve gone from a believer in the treeless mythos, to the other side. Now debating if I will ever show dressage enough to make it worth hunting for a used treed dressage saddle. sigh
A treeless rider has to be centered and balanced independently. If you rely on your saddle to do those things, treeless is probably not for you. Of course, I’d say that if you rely on your saddle to do those things, you should take some lunge line, no stirrup lessons to get yourself there.
Oh boy, KatyB, assume much? (I’m referring to your reply to my post specifically…) I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt since you do not know me. But clearly you know very little about actual endurance riding. It makes absolutely no sense to waste additional energy over long distances so if you can help yourself and your horse by riding in a more solid setup, causing less fatigue, that’s a good thing. It doesn’t mean I need my saddle to hold me in place, like you suggest. And there are a lot more choices between a treeless saddle and a saddle with horn and high cantle 
And thanks for suggesting riding lessons just because I do not love riding in a treeless saddle, lol… I have a strong core, thank you very much, ride dressage as x-training and, just in general, may have a few more miles under my belt than you do. I’ll challenge you to a 50-miler any day and see who is more balanced in the saddle at the end
The one generality you threw out there and I totally agree with was
A treed saddle that fits a happy horse is a lovely thing. A treeless saddle that fits a happy horse is also a lovely thing.
but I would like to add that it is still crucial to consider the job the horse is asked to do. And only the OP knows.
[QUOTE=JeanM;8722017]
I was a fairly early adopter and bought the Ansur Classic around the turn of the century (geez, that feels so weird to write, but it’s accurate!) I bought it long before they came out with the gulleted model.
I loved it when I was a working student, going from horse to horse for lessons lasting up to an hour.
It worked OK for my mare for a while, again light ring use. However, now that my mare is getting older, it’s become apparent that she simply cannot perform as well in it as in her treed Specialized Saddle. I’m relegating the Ansur to my friend’s lesson program, where it’ll be used by light riders/kids.
I’ve gone from a believer in the treeless mythos, to the other side. Now debating if I will ever show dressage enough to make it worth hunting for a used treed dressage saddle. sigh[/QUOTE]
I have gone back and forth on treeless saddles myself. I, too, was an early adopter and while I never owned an Ansur, I’ve owned a Barefoot, a Torsion, a Freeform, a Heather Moffett (that’s a semi-treed saddle) and after taking a few years away from them, a Ghost.
A lot depends on the job you want to do and you and your horse. I’m not light. I am a very balanced rider but I still am very conscious of my horse’s comfort. I think that the design of treeless saddles has improved over the years (most, even the Ansur, now have gullets that are integrated into the saddle and help protect the horse’s spine). Using the correct pad, if needed, is also really important.
I don’t use my Ghost for “hard riding” but I love the close contact feeling and the comfort of it for hacking out. Certainly my treed saddles are also comfortable so I’m not knocking them, but the Ghost is a nice alternative that feels closer to bareback but more comfortable and more secure.
The success that treeless saddles have had in endurance are pretty good evidence to me that a well fitting treeless saddle can work just fine. I have also seen tons of ill fitting treed saddles that ended up leaving horses with sore backs (some of them on uber expensive saddles!).
Education, good riding and vigilance are the best ways to protect your horse’s back.
FYI, the only saddles that I’ve owned that caused problems were the Heather Moffett, which my horse hated, and my very expensive Stackhouse jumping saddle, which my horse outgrew (beyond the capacity of the foam panels to adjust).
