I have been looking for a super comfortable trail saddle and after doing some searches contacted “Sensational Saddles”. I filled out the questionnaire and they responded that my size and my horses were not conducive for their saddles. Below are two recent (this month) pictures of my horse and I :
I respect their right to not sell to me, but am I truly too big for tree less? What else would be comfy ?
Have you tried Ansur saddles? I have not had first hand experience, but they are more accommodating.
https://www.ansursaddle.com/build_your_saddle
Hi Meredith- I live right by you (we’re FB friends actually) and you are no where near too big for a treeless. Between my friend and I (who are both larger ladies BTW) at our barn in Fair Hill, we have a Ghost Firenze, a Barefoot Tahoe (Cadillac of comfort trail saddles), a Black Forest Aspen and one other that I can’t think of off hand. You are welcome to come check them out.
The hard truth is that the “treeless” saddle does not distribute weight as well as a saddle with a rigid tree. That’s just Physics.
Kudos to a maker honest enough to acknowledge reality.
Now you’re at a crossroads: try another treeless maker (recognizing that the same Physics that were the basis of the first maker’s recommendation still apply) or move to a rigid tree saddle?
Your call.
G.
Why treeless? There’s an independent scientific study done at a vet school that examined pressure points for a tree vs treeless saddle and it clearly showed better weight distribution (less pressure on the horses back) for the saddle with a tree.
I think many people falsely believe a treeless saddle will be more comfortable for their horse.
I trail ride in a County Eventer. It is comfortable for me and for my horse. County had demo saddles for those of us who cannot buy a custom saddle.
Link to this study, please? Are we sure it wasn’t sponsored by the manufacturer of a treed saddle. That is the only such “study” I have seen.
Meredith -
PM me. We can talk. 
What saddle are you riding in now? Looks like you’re comfortable taking that on the trail already, or should I say, swimming? 
(Nice photo playing in the water.)
What distance are you planning on riding / how much saddle time will you have?
You could simply add D-rings to the saddle to take a few things for longer rides, and maybe use a different (sheepskin) pad for the trail and otherwise keep the setup.
If it fits you and your horse, there may not be a reason to change much at all. If you are planning on doing longer distances and are most comfortable in dressage-style saddles, I would recommend the Frank Baines Enduro or Arabian Saddle Company’s Solstice.
I personally would never choose treeless for distance riding.
Katyb- here’s the link. The study was not sponsered by any saddle manufacturers. It was done by Michigan State vet school and paid for by the Merial scholars program.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22178359
[QUOTE=BK6756;8719121]
Katyb- here’s the link. The study was not sponsered by any saddle manufacturers. It was done by Michigan State vet school and paid for by the Merial scholars program.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22178359[/QUOTE]
I spoke directly to Dr.Clayton regarding this study when she was at my barn for a seminar. The treeless saddles used were NOT fitted to the horse with proper treeless pads. That pretty much makes the study null and void IMHO.
Treeless is like any other saddle. It works for some, doesn’t for others and it needs to be properly fit to the individual horse. It is NOT a one size fits all deal. I ride my mare 2-4 times/ week treeless. I am a heavyweight rider, with tack 250. She has a beautiful topline, perfect sweat marks, no rubs, etc and when we present to the vet in CTR and Endurance, we’ve never scored anything less than perfect on back scores. I check her back religiously- never a single flinch. I’ve been riding her treeless for 4 years now. My other mare I’ve had for 22 years, a hard to fit Morgan. I’ve had traditional english saddles pro-fit to her and tried about a billion of them. She’s always been a touch back sore and had uneven sweat marks no matter what. Four years ago, I also went treeless with her and now finally, her back is perfect.
People seem to think that you are being cheap if you are going treeless- that is not at all the case, my saddles are well made and fairly pricey, esp when you consider the pricing on treeless pads. Another argument people like to use is that they are unstable- well of course they are if not fit properly or on a horse they don’t work for. But yes, you can mount from the ground (not that anyone should be mounting from the ground if they can help it) without any movement, nor do they slide around during the ride. Would I use one for jumping or roping? No, but that’s not what they are made to do. Like most any piece of tack we use for our horses, if used and fitted correctly they are fine.
[QUOTE=tabula rashah;8719221]
I spoke directly to Dr.Clayton regarding this study when she was at my barn for a seminar. The treeless saddles used were NOT fitted to the horse with proper treeless pads. That pretty much makes the study null and void IMHO.
Treeless is like any other saddle. It works for some, doesn’t for others and it needs to be properly fit to the individual horse. It is NOT a one size fits all deal. I ride my mare 2-4 times/ week treeless. I am a heavyweight rider, with tack 250. She has a beautiful topline, perfect sweat marks, no rubs, etc and when we present to the vet in CTR and Endurance, we’ve never scored anything less than perfect on back scores. I check her back religiously- never a single flinch. I’ve been riding her treeless for 4 years now. My other mare I’ve had for 22 years, a hard to fit Morgan. I’ve had traditional english saddles pro-fit to her and tried about a billion of them. She’s always been a touch back sore and had uneven sweat marks no matter what. Four years ago, I also went treeless with her and now finally, her back is perfect.
People seem to think that you are being cheap if you are going treeless- that is not at all the case, my saddles are well made and fairly pricey, esp when you consider the pricing on treeless pads. Another argument people like to use is that they are unstable- well of course they are if not fit properly or on a horse they don’t work for. But yes, you can mount from the ground (not that anyone should be mounting from the ground if they can help it) without any movement, nor do they slide around during the ride. Would I use one for jumping or roping? No, but that’s not what they are made to do. Like most any piece of tack we use for our horses, if used and fitted correctly they are fine.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that was what I thought. I have heard of two “studies”. One was paid for by a saddle manufacturer, treed of course. This one doesn’t tell you anything about the saddle or pad used. If you order a $99 ebay special, treed or treeless, you get what you paid for…it’s that simple. I use a Black Forest treeless on a Skito pad with good results. Treed saddles did not work for my mare, and I tried dozens.
[QUOTE=tabula rashah;8719221]
I spoke directly to Dr.Clayton regarding this study when she was at my barn for a seminar. The treeless saddles used were NOT fitted to the horse with proper treeless pads. That pretty much makes the study null and void IMHO.
Treeless is like any other saddle. It works for some, doesn’t for others and it needs to be properly fit to the individual horse. It is NOT a one size fits all deal. I ride my mare 2-4 times/ week treeless. I am a heavyweight rider, with tack 250. She has a beautiful topline, perfect sweat marks, no rubs, etc and when we present to the vet in CTR and Endurance, we’ve never scored anything less than perfect on back scores. I check her back religiously- never a single flinch. I’ve been riding her treeless for 4 years now. My other mare I’ve had for 22 years, a hard to fit Morgan. I’ve had traditional english saddles pro-fit to her and tried about a billion of them. She’s always been a touch back sore and had uneven sweat marks no matter what. Four years ago, I also went treeless with her and now finally, her back is perfect.
People seem to think that you are being cheap if you are going treeless- that is not at all the case, my saddles are well made and fairly pricey, esp when you consider the pricing on treeless pads. Another argument people like to use is that they are unstable- well of course they are if not fit properly or on a horse they don’t work for. But yes, you can mount from the ground (not that anyone should be mounting from the ground if they can help it) without any movement, nor do they slide around during the ride. Would I use one for jumping or roping? No, but that’s not what they are made to do. Like most any piece of tack we use for our horses, if used and fitted correctly they are fine.[/QUOTE]
If it’s a “straight up” comparison between treed and tree-less then why should padding be considered? Or if it is then considered for both?
The Physics of the matter is clear.
G.
[QUOTE=Guilherme;8719248]
If it’s a “straight up” comparison between treed and tree-less then why should padding be considered? Or if it is then considered for both?
The Physics of the matter is clear.
G.[/QUOTE]
It matters because it’s not how it was designed to work.
[QUOTE=Guilherme;8719248]
If it’s a “straight up” comparison between treed and tree-less then why should padding be considered? Or if it is then considered for both?
The Physics of the matter is clear.
G.[/QUOTE]
We’ve had this conversation, so you’re just asking for the sake of debate, G. Many treeless saddles REQUIRE a specialized pad to perform effectively. Choosing not to use an appropriate pad renders the test pointless. It’s like saying the treed saddle utilized without a girth isn’t stable for mounting, when utilizing a girth is the way the saddle is meant to be set up.
[QUOTE=katyb;8719519]
We’ve had this conversation, so you’re just asking for the sake of debate, G. Many treeless saddles REQUIRE a specialized pad to perform effectively. Choosing not to use an appropriate pad renders the test pointless. It’s like saying the treed saddle utilized without a girth isn’t stable for mounting, when utilizing a girth is the way the saddle is meant to be set up.[/QUOTE]
Yes, we’ve had it before. And in this case a person was told point blank by a maker of treeless saddles that their product was not right for the customer for the precise reason I’ve noted for years!!!
Dr. Clayton, a Name in equine biomechanics, says the same and she’s wrong because she used the wrong PAD!!! I’m sorry, the comparison was straight up, one to one, in an academic environment, and the treeless lost because it’s a defective design.
Demanding a “special” pad to deal with said design defect does not make the analysis flawed.
You can “tap dance” 'till the cows come home but that’s what happened.
G.
If you don’t use the product as it is designed to be used, you really can’t publish a study on effectiveness.
One saddle maker didn’t advise she use one saddle. None of us know her weight or the weight/size of her horse, so we can’t otherwise comment.
[QUOTE=katyb;8719704]
If you don’t use the product as it is designed to be used, you really can’t publish a study on effectiveness.
One saddle maker didn’t advise she use one saddle. None of us know her weight or the weight/size of her horse, so we can’t otherwise comment.[/QUOTE]
You don’t get to demand “special equipment” just because your product is going to lose in a stright-up competition. If you’ve got to use “special equipment” for the treeless then any treed saddle gets the same treatment. Rendering the test meaningless.
Re-read the OP. The reason they said “no” is clear and unambiguous. The OP bravely posted photos of herself. She didn’t waffle and wemble and make excuses. The reason was clear. The saddle is not suited to her for a very clear reason. The same reason Dr. Clayton gave them a thumbs down and I’ve given them a thumbs down. Me, you can ignore. Dr. Clayton? No so much.
G.
Just asking for clarification here - I thought Dr Clayton said the study was moot because the correct pad was not used.
So, if I put a bit in my horse’s mouth upside down, the problem is with the bit? If I use a rope to tie a saddle to my horse, and it slips, the saddle is at fault? You are making zero sense. If the saddle is designed for use with a specialized pad, and one is not used, you can’t address the success or failure of the saddle fit. Adding that pad to a treed saddle might be a negative for that saddle, as it is not designed to be used with that sort of pad.
If you put a FQHB saddle on a narrow withered arab, and it rubs, is it because the saddle is defective?
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