Immune supplements?

[J-Lu]

Just following up!

I weighed out what I feed in terms of grain and supplements, and had the pasture tested. We took soil samples on Sun and I’ll drop them off on Tues.

The estimated Iron intake (Grazing plus ration balancers) is 515 g, the zinc intake is 925 g, the copper is 164 g for about 1200 lbs horse, so about a 3.1 : 5.6 : 1 ratio. Does anyone have any comments? The copper does seem to be low, and ration balancer is balancing out the very low copper levels in the soil. I’ve been supplementing with manganese because it is low and the human vits were on sale. The bleaching has begun, but his black points stay black. His registration papers say “dark brown” but he maintains black points always.

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

@EmilyM

i like platinum skin and allergy as well. I have one who gets midline dermatitis from insects. greatly controls it.

Platinum Skin and Allergy eliminated my horse’s golf ball sized hives. He won’t eat their other supplements (like CJ), but after a night of skipping his meal when I didn’t replace it, he agreed to the skin and allergy. I am shocked at how well it works. I feed half a scoop during non-high allergy season, and if he gets even one bump, I go to full dose, which eliminates the issue.

[Mouse_amp_Bay]

@Simkie

Welp, I tend to listen to what the horse is telling me. And a horse that bleaches significantly is saying it’s not getting enough copper. Add the other weird issues you’re having and it’s a slam dunk. Frankly the fact your vet says there are a lot of bleaching horses in your area just confirms there’s something off about the copper/zinc/iron balance in your region. Shame your vet can’t recognize that.

Adding copper and zinc is cheap and easy and benign if you’re wrong. I don’t know how it can get much easier.

Very well said Simkie. Too many vets expect that every horse fit as normal. Interesting that OP admits that she’s not feeding full rations, is seeing problems but doesn’t want to try a pretty simple solution with no drawbacks.

[Palm_Beach]

@right horse at the right time

Platinum Skin and Allergy eliminated my horse’s golf ball sized hives. He won’t eat their other supplements (like CJ), but after a night of skipping his meal when I didn’t replace it, he agreed to the skin and allergy. I am shocked at how well it works. I feed half a scoop during non-high allergy season, and if he gets even one bump, I go to full dose, which eliminates the issue.

Is it $2/day?

Active Ingredients Per 1 Scoop (3,200mg)
-Algal Omega-3 Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA)* 510mg
-Quercetin 105mg-
Purified Thymus Protein Complex (Bovine) (Thymic Protein and Zinc Gluconate)780mcg

[J-Lu]

@Mouse&Bay

Very well said Simkie. Too many vets expect that every horse fit as normal. Interesting that OP admits that she’s not feeding full rations, is seeing problems but doesn’t want to try a pretty simple solution with no drawbacks.

“OP is not feeding full rations, is seeing problems but doesn’t want to try a simple solution with no drawbacks?” That’s hilarious! Try looking at the actual numbers I posted and commenting on them.

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

@Palm Beach

Is it $2/day?

Active Ingredients Per 1 Scoop (3,200mg)
-Algal Omega-3 Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA)* 510mg
-Quercetin 105mg-
Purified Thymus Protein Complex (Bovine) (Thymic Protein and Zinc Gluconate)780mcg

As recommended, looks like it. When I first started, I fed the two scoops a day, and furthermore I had a lengthy conversation with the rep at World Cup about the fact that it said1 “heaping teaspoon/scoop” (BID) which is not a good measurement.

Once the hives went away entirely, which was quickly, I cut the dose. He had a slight recurrence (tiny compared to his previous outbreaks…he’s been through 2 rounds of allergy testing) and I upped the dose slightly. He receives half of one scoop, if that, daily, which appears to be less than 1/4 of the recommended dose, and I haven’t had to increase his dose in probably 9 months. So for us, it’s much less than $2/day and seems to be the only product that works that we have tried. About three other horses in the barn have hives right now and take steroids, which i won’t do unless absolutely necessary.

The effect of hives and the allergic response on horses can vary from no discomfort to extreme discomfort resulting in ulcers, colic, and more including death. This product seems to even at reduced doses keep the hives away for us.

[Palm_Beach]

So you are spending 50 cents a day? Hives are an issue for many this year. It would be nice to isolate what ingredient(s) is effective instead of having to pay for PP’s hype and marketing.

[Mouse_amp_Bay]

@J-Lu

“OP is not feeding full rations, is seeing problems but doesn’t want to try a simple solution with no drawbacks?” That’s hilarious! Try looking at the actual numbers I posted and commenting on them.

Easy champ. No need to go nuclear.

I read up to page 2 and saw this:

@J-Lu

His Nutrena feed and supplement (Boost, given to be by a boarder) have omega fatty acids in them. I’m not feeding to the label (he is not starving and his Nutrena feeds are high in fat) but he gets some of these. His Copper and Zinc seem to fulfill an adult horse’s needs.

Including you dismissing very helpful observations and commentary from some of the most esteemed posters on this forum.

Hence my comment, which was made before you indicated your calculations on the ratios.

In the interest of turning this back to being a helpful conversation, not an ad hominem attack, consider that the NRC (if I recall) recommends 4 iron to 1 copper to 3 zinc. You’re at about 3:1:5.5 IF (big IF) your horse is accepting the copper ‘normally’ as presumed.

My favourite multivitamin is the horsetech arizone copper complete

http://desertequinebalance.blogspot.com/p/az-copper-complete-high-copper.html

It is not allergy specific but has a high enough copper, zinc & vitamin E to make it useful, particularly in areas of high iron.

[Palm_Beach]

OMG I am crying for your horse! Mine are nowhere near as bad, but I’m glad you found something that works!

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

@Palm Beach

OMG I am crying for your horse! Mine are nowhere near as bad, but I’m glad you found something that works!

Isn’t that crazy? Believe it or not, he actually tolerated it extremely well. The antihistamines didn’t do any good and made him so sleepy and stumbly that I was worried about him. He didn’t seem to be itchy, just slightly uncomfortable. He didn’t bite at himself, but how could he, his entire body was covered with hives so he would have been biting everything.

As you can see, I would gladly even spend the two dollars a day to prevent this :-). But luckily, he doesn’t need the full dose all the time.

[J-Lu]

@Mouse&Bay

Easy champ. No need to go nuclear.

I read up to page 2 and saw this:

Including you dismissing very helpful observations and commentary from some of the most esteemed posters on this forum.

Hence my comment, which was made before you indicated your calculations on the ratios.

In the interest of turning this back to being a helpful conversation, not an ad hominem attack, consider that the NRC (if I recall) recommends 4 iron to 1 copper to 3 zinc. You’re at about 3:1:5.5 IF (big IF) your horse is accepting the copper ‘normally’ as presumed.

My favourite multivitamin is the horsetech arizone copper complete

http://desertequinebalance.blogspot.com/p/az-copper-complete-high-copper.html

It is not allergy specific but has a high enough copper, zinc & vitamin E to make it useful, particularly in areas of high iron.

Oh brother. I was answering a different question. I’m not feeding Nutrena feeds to the label but I am feeding a Progressive ration balancer to the label - it doesn’t have omega fatty acids. I’m also doing a lot of rational analysis rather than simply throwing minerals at him. I’m not planning to throw minerals at him “just because”. I’m sorry your interpret this as as dismissing esteemed posters. I believe they would agree with my approach to not blindly throw minerals at a horse but to determine the baseline.

I used multiple sources to determine an ideal ratio, including veterinary sources. In your opinion, why wouldn’t a horse accept copper normally? How can I determine that? I’m a Ph.D. biomed scientist, feel free to throw details and mechanisms at me.

[J-Lu]

OMG, right horse at the right time, I don’t think I’ve ever seen hives like that! Geez, a picture is worth a thousand words. Thanks for describing what worked!

[Simkie]

@J-Lu

I’m also doing a lot of rational analysis rather than simply throwing minerals at him.

But you haven’t tested THE HAY?

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

@J-Lu

OMG, right horse at the right time, I don’t think I’ve ever seen hives like that! Geez, a picture is worth a thousand words. Thanks for describing what worked!

Pretty impressive, huh? He was a trooper! Most were the diameter of a golf ball, but the ones on his belly came close to the diameter of a softball. People were afraid of him, lol! Kinda looks like smallpox :0. Definitely the worst I have seen even looking at other horse hives photos online. I’m no product pusher and actually feed SmartPaks, but this Platinum supplement seems to do the trick.

I hope you get your horse’s stuff figured out!

ETA: I also think he is allergic to Mane and Tail shampoo and conditioner. He had this VERY odd clearly delineated trapezoid type flat hives after I used the conditioner. Gave all of that away.

[J-Lu]

@Simkie

But you haven’t tested THE HAY?

Because he’s not on hay. He’s on pasture most of the year. They get hay maybe 4 months of the year because the pastures are so well maintained. Note, I’m in NC, our seasons are very different than yours in CT (where I grew up and had horses).

[Greyscale]

I use and love Platinum Performance’s Immune Support. It is pricey, but very powerful