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Important news!! WFFS is finally recognized

Sport Horse Breeding
#401

I disagree with Marydel. Everdale has 900 foals already. By Mendelian laws, that means that he has produced around 450 carriers. He has produced licensed stallions who are producing more and more carriers. Even if one accepts the notion that only 6% to 11% of warmbloods NOW are carriers, that is 1-18 to 1-10 of every current WB. Given modern breeding methods, and breeding fads, the number of carriers can only increase, even if carriers are not bred to carriers if carriers are permitted to breed without limitation. Even if we assume that the number of carriers will be limited to 50%, the number of stallions available for breeding to carriers will be limited to those, who, no matter their personal talents and abilities, are clears. And that is assuming that all mares and stallions are tested before they are bred.

Even if the bad allele is many years, even a century old, modern breeding fads and modern breeding methods have contributed to the birth of these rare affected foals; no one knows how many early embryonic deaths and spontaneous abortions are involved.

Marydel speaks from one perspective–that of a carrier stallion owner.

7 Likes
#402

Wow you are nice today… I guess your perspective is a very easy one… in front of a computer…

1 Like
#403

Mendelian law works both ways though. If a clear stallion is bred to a clear mare, there’s 100% clear offspring - and then a clear stallion bred to a carrier mare, 50% will still be clear as well. So for as popular as Everdale is (and scientific theory suggests that half of his offspring would be carriers, and then to determine which of those carriers ended up in breeding homes, and the prevalence of any licensed carrier stallions by him especially, as stallions have the greatest ability to spread a gene) that also works in the inverse. Very popular non-carrier stallions will be able to equally influence a population.

What the hardy weinberg equation fails to take into account (and what we are running into in this discussion) is the influence of human nature: popular stallions, successful stallions, or even not especially successful performing stallions that are still from a bloodline or a pedigree considered optimal, will always be sought after. Everdale is one example of a popular stallion being a carrier. Contucci, Negro, or Lord Leatherdale are all examples of popular stallions who aren’t carriers.

And science already tells us that non-carriers bred to non-carriers can only produce non-carriers. Right now the carrier population estimation is anywhere from 6-12% (which I hope to see, as a result of this recent upsurge in awareness, to evolve into a concrete number, whatever the results end up being). The majority of the warmblood population (and subsequently, the breeding population) aren’t carriers. So those non-carrier stallions bred to a majority of those mares will result in N/N offspring - and then bred to a carrier mare, still has a 50% of being clear as well. These are influential numbers, and worth remembering, especially if we’re going to consider the mendelian law applying to carrier stallions - it’s also necessary to consider the non-carrier numbers.

As a result of this, I think that it might be preemptive to jump straight into panic over the idea of propagating carrier pedigrees. Certainly there will be people whose personal breeding ethics dictate they only breed non-carriers. I think that’s commendable.

But as someone who is actually scheduled to look at several horses in the next few weeks, while I will ask the sellers if they have been tested (and what those results are if they have been), I will not consider a N/WFFS result to mean that the horse is worth less, or that if I buy a mare who is N/WFFS that I will not be able to breed her down the road.

Ultimately, information is never the wrong answer. Testing more horses to get a clearer grasp of the clear/carrier population breakdown is fabulous. Publishing test results so breeders can make informed decisions is fabulous (and crucial). But trying to uniformly dictate policy (especially before some of this information is acquired) is not helpful, nor do I think it’s productive.

5 Likes
#404

From KWPN-NA (apologies if this has already been posted)

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[TD=“align: left”]As previously reported in April, the office of the Royal Dutch Warmblood Association of North America (KWPN-NA) has been closely monitoring the recent developments with Warmblood Fragile Foal Syndrome (WFFS).

					At that time, our organization encouraged breeders to voluntarily test their breeding stock while we waited for any official policy updates from the KWPN in Holland.

					Now, those policy updates have arrived.[/TD]
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[TD=“align: left”]After the recent publications regarding this disease, it has been found that three KWPN-approved stallions carry the WFFS gene, and it is currently not clear which (if any) other stallions may be carriers of this gene as they have not been tested. Since breeding season is in full swing and there is a sense of urgency regarding this testing, the KWPN-NA has been officially notified that effective immediately, the General Board of the KWPN is requiring testing for all active approved KWPN stallions of which offspring have been registered in the past five years, as well as any stallions that are currently participating in the performance test. All test results must be provided to the KWPN and will be made publicly available on the KWPN website. This decision immediately leads to transparency regarding possible carriage of the WFFS gene. Therefore, here in North America, the KWPN-NA will now require testing for all activated Approved, Licensed and Foalbook stallions. These results will also be published on the KWPN-NA website so that breeders can make informed decisions.

					At this time, testing is available through the UC Davis Veterinary Genetics Laboratory for a discounted price of just $30.00 if tested through the KWPN-NA, and our office will facilitate and coordinate the testing at UC Davis Veterinary Genetics Laboratory. Key points for stallion owners to know about this testing are:
  • If your stallion has already been tested or you have already gotten a notification from the KWPN in Holland that they are testing your stallion, we ask you to please email, fax or mail a copy of the certificate to the KWPN-NA office so that we do not order another test for your stallion. Tests will begin to be ordered on Friday, May 11[SUP]th[/SUP].
  • Sufficient DNA is usually still available 'on file' with UC Davis from a horse's original hair sample for KWPN-NA registration to conduct this additional test. But if a stallion was tested through another registry, if the sample was converted from blood, or if it originated in the Netherlands, a new sample will be required and we will be forwarding a new DNA kit to send to UC Davis. If DNA hair samples are not available on the stallion, a semen test can also be done.
  • The KWPN-NA office will pre-order the tests and will receive the results directly from UC Davis. Our office will pass on these results to the stallion owner after the owner submits payment directly to the KWPN-NA to reimburse for the test. No additional administrative or handling fees will be applied. 
					Through this mandatory testing, breeders can make better choices for their programs and prevent WFFS non-viable foals from being born. The carrier status of stallions for WFFS will be published on the KWPN-NA website and in the stallion directory. Please note the results of this testing do not affect the status of the stallions with the KWPN breeding program and they will remain as approved or licensed, and will continue to be able to be activated regardless of their carrier status. The KWPN is still discussing how this testing will be integrated in the breeding program for mares.

					It is the responsibility and in the best interest of all breeders to guarantee a high-quality and healthy breeding program, and the KWPN-NA thanks stallion owners for their cooperation. For more information, visit the KWPN-NA website at <a href="http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001ER9SNGpQfF5dpglFNPh1wh7l0_wqB3X4AYqx42lYkIF1S8MMtgPtgVzIqW_WL5TzuSpO3weR625JtdRVD8PfUGB5DwoVa60yvLQRx4xNZCIQDtvZNILBzUXvR8hd_bnfrB5nF_uBcrktFbbxCwX7kg==&c=DQB8Zm9ZKQqxNg8q-HYY1WVLZU3U2X6PcJVV0bSOlrf0QOh0vpqsCQ==&ch=1500e_QJtS8XIFoh2Vf_VcT9kIPkn8R-4yb3NS1Cs_KcTLP4uJLoxQ==">www.kwpn-na.org</a>.[/TD]
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7 Likes
#405

As I predicted - KWPN has taken the lead in doing something meaningful to try to get a handle on this issue. Yes, the condition is rare, but as several people have pointed out, we really don’t know how rare since many afflicted foals die en utero. And the few that were born died soon after, with the death being attributed to some sort of “birth defect”. But with modern breeding and horse keeping practices, we are now seeing more of these foals being born alive. It’s a shame there has been a test available for some years, but that so few people even knew about the condition or the test until Mary Nuttal and Hilltop Farm were courageous enough to go public. Thanks to the rapid spread of information these days due to the internet, more and more people are now aware, and more breeders are coming forward with tales of losing foals in a similar fashion – and more breeders are starting to demand action by the registries.

Kudos to KWPN for making it mandatory for all active KWPN stallions to be tested, and for being willing to publish the results on their web site. Other registries, on the other hand, are suffering from Ostrich Syndrome. Yes, some are recommending that breeders test their stock and not breed two carriers to each other, but that doesn’t go far enough. They need to get some backbone and stand up against the stallion owners who dominate registry politics.

I find it quite interesting that a WFFS foal has been born in The Netherlands that was sired by Total U.S., who is Totilas/Sir Donnerhall. Both of those stallions are owned by Paul Schockemoehle, so I tend to think he doesn’t want to know, and he certainly doesn’t want anyone else to know. I think he is being very short-sighted about it, because if both those stallions tested clear, it would be a BIG relief for him and the breeders who have used those stallions.

But Schockemoehle casts a VERY big shadow in registry politics in Germany, and he and other big gun stallion owners are going to resist-resist-resist any attempt by the registries to mandate stallion testing, and especially the publication of test results because they don’t want to lose breedings. It’s a business decision for them – ethics and moral responsibility to help try to stem the tide of the spread of this disease be damned.

7 Likes
#406

Yes, I think it will be difficult for him to remain the odd man out.
With so many owners and now some registries willing to be forthright about the testing results of their stallions, obfuscation will not serve him well if his business interests include standing his stallions to a large percentage of outside mares.

Most mare owners do care about their mares and don’t want to lose a foal either in utero or on the ground. Testing is the only way to prevent the loss.

I would think that stallion owners would want to test, since without testing, and limiting the breeding of carrier to carrier, it seems as though a stallion’s fertility rate can not be accurately measured.

Again, I am more familiar with TB breeding, so not well educated about the records and statistics kept by the Warmblood registries regarding breedings, live foals, foal mortality etc…

The Jockey Club is pretty meticulous, those statistics are readily available for TBs.

1 Like
#407

@skydy , I don’t know of a resource that keeps that info for Warmblood breeding. Certainly stallion owners may know how many mares are on the stallion’s book, and mare owners know if a breeding is successful. But I have never known of a database for the info you list. Would be great to have, but without a central registry, I don’t know if that info could be efficiently collected and accurately tracked.

Maybe someone with more breeding experience has further information. All I have ever heard in casual conversation, sometimes, may be the quality of a stallion’s semen/breeding dose.

#408

The “doing something” appears to be a little half-****d at this point and more motivated by the desire to perfect marketing strategies. Demanding stallions to be tested is certainly better than doing nothing but it won’t help to prevent spreading it any further.
The most likely scenario is that without mandatory testing for both mares and stallions there will fewer carrier stallions rather quickly but the allele will keep popping up by virtue of carrier mares that are bred without testing. A percentage of owners will always be in denial because they follow the school of thought ‘oh I haven’t had any affected foals in x years of breeding’ and you can hardly blame them.
Only if they take an interest in improving the gene pool overall will this condition matter to them. And it is a plain and simple fact that not all breeders have this mentality hence there will be untested horses in the future so the condition will remain.
For KWPN it was a smart move to jump onto the matter. Again they have managed to present themselves as being on the forefront without actually doing all that much (mainly because the other registries have set the bar for ‘publicly visible efforts to improve soundness’ at zero so any entity who does ‘something’ automatically gets the brownie for being the most proactive.
If you think of the OCD-Index essentially what it is is a shifting from one insecurity to the other. With breed value indices beginning as low as 30% it means your chance for the index to be correct is significantly less than if you tossed a coin which has a 50% reliability.
Has anybody read the actual statutes for the KWPN OCD index? The index is far from being the reliable tool KWPN claims it is. The concept is flawed from beginning to the end and only serves a marketing purpose and to shift more money from breeders to the registry. Even the learning sample was a joke. They collected the data from randomly selected foals aged 6 to 11 months. Findings in foals are known to be often transient and the mere fact that a foal has no OCD findings at this young age is far from being a guarantee that it will not have as an adult horse and the other way around.
Unless mare testing is made mandatory the condition will prevail and as long as other registries don’t follow suit with requiring testing for stallions KWPN can rightly claim that they have at least done something where others have been blocking the efforts altogether.
It will be interesting to observe whether WBFSH will put it onto their agenda. The allele could be easily reduced and eventually eliminated within a few generations if registries and breeders worked together for a change.
Will we see it happen? Unlikely. But that doesn’t mean one should just plod on as usual.

8 Likes
#409

Kareen, I agree with your comments. In an earlier post, I suggested THREE steps registries could (should) take to limit the spread of this disease.

  1. Mandate stallion testing and publish carrier status on their stallion roster. Even better would be to not license carrier stallions.
  2. Require testing of every mare presented for inspection, and record the mare’s status in their mare books, and send notification to owners of carrier mares that they should be sure to use only non-carrier stallions for the mare.
  3. Test foals and permanently record their carrier status on their registration papers, as well as notify the breeder/foal owner of the foal’s carrier status.

An even more draconian step would be to not register carrier foals, but that would send breeders to other registries with less stringent rules (so there needs to be cooperation and cohesion among all the warmblood registries.).

Of course, the new KWPN rule doesn’t go far enough, but they are the first registry to do anything other than suggest that breeders test their stock and avoid breeding carrier to carrier.

And yes, a percentage of breeders will always be in denial - and that goes for both mare owners and stallion owners.

I too would like to see WBFSH get involved, but I don’t expect that organization to do much more than advise its member registries to notify breeders to test their stock (i.e., what some registries are now doing).

Paul Schockemoehle can fuss and fume all he wants about “American women gossiping”, but if it takes “gossip” to goad the registries into taking stronger measures, than so be it.

2 Likes
#410

Does anyone know if the current test works using frozen semen?

#411

Yes, DNA is DNA :slight_smile:

It doesn’t have to be frozen on arrival, it just has to stay cold. 1/3 of a typical straw is what Animal Genetics says is needed.

I saw somewhere else that in Germany the amount asked for is .05cc, so 1/3 or even 1/4 of a straw would be more than enough.

#412

Yes it was Laboklin that stated 0.05cc

#413

Yes, I know that DNA is DNA. It was early and I was on my first couple sips of coffee. :winkgrin:

What I was trying to ask is - “will the labs accept frozen semen for WFFS testing?”

Thank you and Kareen for answering.

1 Like
#414

Of course! And your point is well-taken. In almost all cases, it makes no sense to plan a breeding based on a single allele. (Of course, if the allele is common enough and lethal, its frequency in the population will come to have an appreciable effect on the health/longevity of that group.)

I agree that really sophisticated management of this population would involve knowing the linkages between this relatively dangerous allele (aquiring that danger when it becomes common among individuals in the group), and knowing the relative value/desirability of the other alleles that tend to come with it, as they are at close-by locations on a chromosome. If y’all can do this, my hat is off to you! But that’s a very complicated problem; that’s not to say that I don’t understand it or overlooked it. And to acknowledge another problem-- there is so, so much one must simplify when building mathematical models useful to talking about allele frequency. Trying to do that for even a modest number of alleles at once gets mind-boggling.

That point about selecting multiple (and often unknown alleles) at once just complicates the basic question that I think this thread raised: Given that this awful and lethal defect is caused by a single recessive allele, should we fire up the engine of Mendelian population genetics, harness that to the power of registries that can be “gate keepers” for breeding individuals and therefore alleles in a population? Or do we not need to do any of that? Or should we not do any of that because the science isn’t familiar and there are pressing economic reasons to continue on as we are?

I do think Kareen’s comment about the technologies of fresh- and frozen semen is worth noting. That can make a stallion much, much more influential within a population now than any breeding animal has ever been in the past (except for brief moments in miniscule populations). And all this means that it’s more possible to create a “genetic bottle neck” now via a handful of very popular stallions who care similar genetics than ever before. It’s a very interesting and pressing problem, IMO.

4 Likes
#415

Right on, Kareen. Thanks, too for the info about the OCD index. I had no idea that existed and how it was made. The quality of information out in this kind of question comes from the quality (and size) of the database going in.

One more addition to the point you made (which I think echoes my concern about thinking in terms of the genetic health of the breeding population now and in the future)— I think time is of the essence. And let me be clear: Want to gather data about the frequency of this recessive allele now does not amount to panic. Rather, it means beginning to gather the data you’d need sooner rather than later when you have more carriers in the population because we didn’t bother to test… and then you need more breeding animals who are homozygous for the dominant allele (plus holding the other alleles you want) for successful breedings.

I really don’t see why registries or breeding contracts don’t require mares to be tested. That generates more data, protects individual breeders (from, if nothing else, seeing a foal die an awful death), and spreads around the burden of protecting the gene pool of the population. Anyone breeding has this responsibility, IMO.

4 Likes
#416

Considering how a carrier stallion can have way more of an impact on the carrier status of a population, is it wildly inappropriate or untenable to propose that (future) stallions with carrier status cannot be licensed, but mares with carrier status can?

That way the bloodline can still continue – but not at a massive saturation.

I’m sure it’s not an ideal solution to some… but just a thought because people are claiming if we don’t breed carriers we can lose valuable traits… what if we limit it to a specific sex?

4 Likes
#417

Any proposal to prevent carriers from breeding is pretty inappropriate at this moment. It doesn’t matter whether its stallions or mares IMO

1 Like
#418

Manni01, I don’t agree that it’s inappropriate to discuss some sort of protocol to handle limiting the impact carrier stallions have on a population.

We’re seeing that it’s more prevalent than originally estimated, and more prevalent in some very popular lines… that can and will shape the future of the breed registries because you can’t throw a cat without hitting some of those stallions, their sons, their daughters…

As a breeder, you of all people should recognize that influential stallions shape the future of the registry - not the non-influential ones - and you, as a breeder, should recognize that the diversity for popular bloodlines at the moment is very small. If the diversity is small, and a major founding stallion, with major stallion sons, has been declared a carrier – how can you not see the forest for the trees?

6 Likes
#419

I just read a piece from one of the geneticists on the forefront of the WFFS issue. This geneticist believes that WFFS dates back to the 1800s. Here we are 150-200 years later with an existing warmblood population believed to be 90-94% clear (i.e., no carriers). This (WFFS and other genetic diseases/syndromes) is an issue for the registries to address, but hardly one that warrants the widespread hysteria it has caused.

Many of the registries have advised their membership of the WFFS issue, recommended that breeders test their breeding stock and suggested that breeders use caution when breeding with carriers. This is the simplest, most straight-forward and practical step toward mitigating the risk that WFFS poses. Developing registry policies beyond that will require thoughtful discussion.

The sky is far from falling.

3 Likes
#420

Incidentally for anyone who hasn’t been following, animal genetics is currently citing 6.4% of the population as carriers. This is a FLUID NUMBER (I haven’t seen them cite how large their tested population is) and subject to change as more horses are tested. This number is currently lower than the one they stated yesterday (7.8%) and on the low end of the estimates I have seen since the beginning. You can see the information at the link below.

https://www.animalgenetics.us/Equine/Genetic_Disease/WFFS.asp

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