Importing a PRE?

[TheDBYC]

This is more a mid-range goal of mine, barring a winning Power Ball ticket in my near future. So, I’m in the information gathering stage & hoping to get general thoughts/opinions on the process. Did you find it was worth it for the quality-to-cost ratio, for one? How did it go getting the horse settled in? Did you geld? Etc.

I’m mid-40’s & don’t have crazy ambitions; no one is knocking on my door to go to the Olympics. I’d like to earn my USDF Silver & maaaaaaybe Gold. But mostly, I just want a nice, well-schooled horse upon which I can continue to advance my own skills for the benefit of the rider-focused yoga coaching/consulting I do. And I’ve always wanted a Spanish horse!

[BrokenArrow]

I did a few years ago. I’m in Australia so the import process is quite different than going to the US. But I have no regrets at all.

Price wise, my mare was an absolute steal. She did have some findings on x-ray that were a non issue. She was competing PSG and training all GP movements.

I used an agent and travelled around southern Spain, where the horses are generally better priced. I had a good budget, but found a lot for much cheaper with good training. My requirements were solid PSG, but I rode a few with clean changes and and starting all their lateral work for well under budget.

Getting her settled was a bit of a challenge at first. She’d lived in a stable most of her life and being in a paddock was new and unusual for her. But overall, she was such a good solid character that life became easy. She’s still a princess and screams at her gate when a drop of rain comes. But riding a PRE is life changing. She’s such a solid temperament but hot enough to make the work easy. She just wanted to please and was such a good worker.

She’s retired now due to a paddock injury. But I had the best rides of my life on her. 100% saving up to do it all again.

[TheDBYC]

Thank you for the information! She sounds like an amazing horse. If you don’t mind my asking, how did you come to select a mare? I was under the impression that the mares still weren’t widely ridden in Spain?

[dotneko]

PRE s are showing up more and more. I have a friend importing a GP horse soon. He was gelded in Spain before shipping and is recovering at the moment.

[Willesdon]

Having ridden PRE, Tres-Sangre, Hispano-Arab and Lusitano I have a personal preference for the Lusitano over the PRE. The breed was one stud book until the 1930s (or 20s?) so they remain very similar but the Portuguese have focused more on functional, working horses and I find their gaits a bit more free. Some PRE can feel a bit like a sewing machine (which is probably why the TresSangre and Hispano Arab were invented). So, if considering going to Spain, look in Portugal as well.

[eightpondfarm]

Go for it!!! If it were me, i’d fly over and make my final selection in person

i have a friend in my dog breed world (PWDs) who trains at a Lusitano barn. She said she could hook-me-up with a stud should i want to come and pick up some straws. I already have a traveling semen tank (for bulls in Scotland and rams in Iceland), and it wouldn’t be a biggie to fly over (if the pandemic ever ends). I’ve thought about it, but i’d have to be crazy to do it, i stopped breeding because it’s just more emotionally rewarding to me to adopt. OTOH…I have a few friends in PT that i’ve visited a couple of times, i and LOVE the food there (omg…the cheese!!).

Coming from Morgans, my thing about most PREs is I don’t like their short necks…the only two mares i have with a long enough neck to balance out that breadth is a too old arab and a too young of a curly mustang. The mustang is 3yr old has a great shoulder that would nick well i think, but she’s a little close from hocks on down. Not a dressage deal-breaker, but i don’t think i should breed that. But straws keep… (we have two tanks full of them for the sheep)

[2tempe]

I know that many horses are successfully imported every year, from all over Europe. And I know that things can go bad when you buy a horse from your own backyard.
I happened to be one of the unlucky people to go thru a nightmare import. Happened to be a Lusitano - stallion while he was there, gelded prior to leaving Spain. He arrived in US with a rare degenerative neuro type disease. Shipped directly to reputable vet clinic who did diagnostics. Condition went down hill over 4 weeks and I had him put down. The disease is thought to be autoimmune related, and I suspect but will never know, that it was probably triggered by the gelding process and related stress. He was 9 at the time, was done in surgical setting, and somewhat slow to heal.
Yes you can find good prices, very important to have a reputable agent or contact. But even then, things are not always what you think. I had a vet here helping me thru the PPE, which went fine. Between then and shipping time was a couple months. In part due to the time required to heal from gelding and in part due to COVID mess.
This was a long ugly situation, yes I had insurance but there was lots that wasn’t covered. Communications weren’t good. Information hard to get. Commitments made and not kept. Personally would never do it again.

[joiedevie99]

I bought my PRE here, after someone else had imported him. Truly a gem of a horse. Exceptional canter, did his first CDI at 9 with me (an amateur).

My trainer has since moved to Spain, and I went over to shop with her (and another agent) for another. I only found one good prospect that was a fit for me and my goals, and he did not vet. Happy to answer any questions you have. Shoot me a pm.

[eightpondfarm]

how very sad…

Horse connections are really difficult nowdays! (Covid shutdown kept me from being able to get some mustangs i adopted from BLM in a timely fashion… I bought 3 off an internet auction in January of 2020 and was not able to actually get them until July. The mare i bought in February didn’t get here until December! It was nearly impossible dealing with the BLM. They were extraordinarily unresponsive.)

[Scribbler]

@eightpondfarm There are lots of Iberian horses on the West Coast, the Latin American community loves them. There’s a certain amount of underfunded backyard breeding going on, so it’s quite possible to blend a desire to rescue with acquiring an Iberian or cross.

As far as necks, I’ve always thought Iberians had substantial necks. It’s true they can be ridden very compressed and that might change the picture. But if they learn to reach to the bit they have nice long necks for their short back lengths. Also super long necks are not necessarily a bonus in dressage.

[CanteringCarrot]

Exactly, re the necks, Scribbler.

Mine is short backed with a good length neck. Just the right size and not too thick. I’ve not seen short necks be a problem, to be honest.

I bought one in Spain, unseen, and shipped him to me (within Europe) but I was looking at just backed or not backed yet youngsters. So a little different then something with more training and costing more money! The seller I dealt with was decent.

[TheDBYC]

I’m sorry that happened to you! I m a what-if kind of person, so the possibility of an issue related to import is something I grapple with. My boss is Irish, a retired jockey with good connections in Ireland & Canada. When I was going crazy looking a pony for the kiddo recently, he very kindly offered to work his contacts in Ireland ; we could get something very nice inclusive of import for a fraction of US prices. I’ll consider it for the next go round, but just wasn’t ready this time. It isn’t something I want to try with “just enough” cash on hand to cover the best case scenario. I want reserves in case the horse is held up in import quarantine, etc. (Plus, we needed something more relaxed jumping than your typical Irish pony) .

I do worry about complications from late gelding & I’m not usually a mare person. I suppose the only way of getting around late gelding is to buy something that is recognized breeding quality. Which definitely drives prices up.

[CanteringCarrot]

There are decent geldings that come up for sale sometimes. So keep an eye out.

[Mersidoats]

I’ve seen two come through my current barn, and several down south. All of them had lovely temperaments, stallions/geldings - didn’t matter. Lovely, sweet horses, darlings on the ground. One was kept intact as he is a breeding stallion. He is just fine to handle and impeccably behaved on the ground (and around mares). I could put my mother on him and he wouldn’t put a foot wrong. The others were gelded without a problem, including a 14 y/o.

There were a few that had lived their whole lives in stalls, and grass was a novel experience.

The training quality varied greatly, everything from push-button-perfect-PSG to oh-my-god-this-horse-is-unridable. Watch out for feet, I’ve seen a lot of stacked/crushed heels. Vetting standards are different, things that pass over there would not pass here.

There are some more very nice looking CDEs (Spanish Sport Horse) showing up - PRE/Warmblood crosses. Very athletic, more warmblood type gaits, very interesting horses. There are also some real donkeys out there - it’s not a guaranteed cross.

You should go and work with an agent that is recommended to you by people who have imported several times. Anyone can have one good or bad experience, better to have a range of data to make your decision. Bring your trainer. Ride the horses. Be absolutely up front and honest with the agent about your skills, your goals, and your must-haves/deal-breakers. No fun to waste time riding unsuitable horses, not all Spanish horses are created equal.

Importing is not a quick process - sometimes it takes a few months to get the horse on a flight.

[BrokenArrow]

@TheDBYC

Thank you for the information! She sounds like an amazing horse. If you don’t mind my asking, how did you come to select a mare? I was under the impression that the mares still weren’t widely ridden in Spain?

They generally aren’t. She was the only mare I rode while I was there.

I promised myself I wanted a stallion and preferably not a grey. So I came home with a grey mare instead

[TheDBYC]

Is gelding early, or really at what we’d consider the normal time in the US, thought to change body development at all?

[2tempe]

I have heard that early gelding makes for a somewhat bigger horse than it would be if left as a stallion. Cant remember the source and if it had a real scientific basis…
There are complexities importing a stallion (quarantine,etc) which run up the cost; also in my case, I have one stallion and am fortunate to have boarding facility that is not troubled by a stallion. If/when he is retired, I will likely have fewer options as to a place for him. But I did not want another, because of the boarding challenges, mostly.

[BigMama1]

A friend of mine did it a couple of years ago. Sale price of the horse was probably in the $20k ballpark. All in including travel expenses for her and her trainer to go try horses, vetting, commission, transport from Spain to Holland for flight, flight and quarantine, the total cost was probably around $50k (Canadian). Not a chance you could find a horse of the same age, soundness, temperament, athletic ability and level of training for that price here, so it was definitely worth it. He is an absolute unicorn. If I had access to money I would have loved to bring over a few for quick resale.

[Hippolyta]

@2tempe

I have heard that early gelding makes for a somewhat bigger horse than it would be if left as a stallion.

This is true - testosterone makes one thicker/heavier and seals the growth plates. Geldings keep growing (tall) for a very, very long time. Basically their body is waiting for the “stop growing” signal, which is not forthcoming.

Estrogen is actually, more or less, the signal for increase in growth hormone during puberty & is important for bone deposition. It is responsible for long bone growth in both sexes. Human females tend to be shorter b/c we have a shorter (time-wise) growth spurt. Men, typically, have longer puberty that comes later. When testosterone finally settles into its adult production levels, the growth plates will seal. Human castrati were tall.

If a younger male gets excess testosterone from tumor, doping or other issue, they will be shorter. In some places, they would actualy treat super tall teen males with testosterone to prevent excess height (whatever that is.) They used to do it in the Netherlands. Obviously, there are ethical isues with this - it wasn’t done due to kids having hormonal issues or anything, they were just tall. I read an article with commentary that it wasn’t ever a thing in US b/c we have basketball;

[Caol_Ila]

Jumping on the thread – I’m looking at a couple 2.5 year old PREs this weekend. Not bred in Spain, though, but rather the south side of Glasgow. Never had an Iberian horse before, nor have I been around very many of them. But I want something intelligent, kind, not mega-bouncy, and more suited to dressage than my now-27-year old Shire-TBX. She has many wonderful qualities, but being built for collection is not one of them.