Importing from Europe

[Allusion]

Hey everyone - new member here hoping to glean some information from the wealth of knowledge here at COTH.

I’m an Adult Amateur searching for her new long-term partner and a few friends have suggested looking at importing from Europe. I don’t have a huge budget but I haven’t found anything in the last 6 months that has really intrigued me, and it seems like I might be able to find something overseas that is much better quality even for my lower price point. I would be purchasing sight-unseen, though I have a contact in one country that I could potentially ask to go look at some for me but I’m not relying on that.

Tell me your stories! The good, the bad, the great, the ugly. Would you do it again? Any advice?

Thanks in advance!

[Allusion]

I wanted to edit to add - I have seen a number of threads about this on COTH but they all seem to be older, so hoping to ask a fresh perspective!

[ladyj79]

There are several very recent threads just scan even the first page. Europe can be a good option if you have contacts. Canada might be an even better option depending on your needs and budget, especially if you don’t have European contacts.

Good luck!

[cherham]

For sure please look in Canada. We have many, many lovely horses here. And with your US exchange rate you can’t beat the price. Most of our sport horses carry the same bloodlines you would find in Europe. Easier to transport that’s for sure

[Madison]

If you are shopping for one for the hunter ring, bear in mind the horse may be much greener to the hunter job than it may appear in the video you buy off of, and make sure you are equipped to deal with that if it is the case when you get it here. Additional training when it gets here of course adds to the cost, but does spread it over time.

Whether importing is a good value depends on your budget, your sources, and your confidence in your ability to ride whatever steps off the plane, since you won’t get to sit on it before you own it.

Canada is definitely worth a look before going the import-off-a-video route, given the exchange rate, easy import with no quarantine, and potential ability to actually go sit on the horse and try it.

[WildandWickedWarmblo]

I bought from someone who regularly imported from europe.
So the horses were already here in the states, on the ground, and being shown by the importer.
That way I got to see and ride and learn about the horses.

I have considered buying sight unseen from europe but have always hesitated to do so. I just have to look the horse in the eye, ride him or her, and decide then if I want to spend all that money on the horse.

I just don’t trust others to pick up out my horses. They might have great insight, but if I didn’t like the horse I bought sight unseen, would I want to keep it? Too much money to be indecisive. And I do not want to fly to europe to try out horses.

[findeight]

Some threads might be older but unless you go back 10 years or so when it was still not that common, all the same advice applies. Except import costs have gone up and Europeans learned what we want in a Hunter and price accordingly.

And they might be able to jump a 1.3m course and have a lead change but only under a Pro rider. Not average Ammy. Most Ive hacked shortly after stepping off the plane had no clue what the outside rein was and thought flower boxes or any jump decoration or filler hid the spawn of Satan, wouldn’t go in the same end of the ring with them let alone trot over a flower box. They aren’t what you think, the stereotype they are 3rd level Dressage trained is a myth and most are low mileage and very green. Hard to get access to the top offerings without a well known repeat importer trainer over here and a good agent with good connections over there which adds to the cost.

If you have experience with youngsters, particularly over fences? Or if your budget include several months of full training and Pro rides? Might work out for you…probably take at least 35k to get it and get it over here on top of these training months.

Ireland seems to be a bit of an exception particularly if you are looking for an Eventer or Jumper. But for the 40-50k before you get it showring ready for you, you could do as well or better over here in the USA or Canada. Argentina also breeds some very nice ones to export and usually works out a little less then Europe since it’s not as trendy.

[SnicklefritzG]

I wouldn’t buy sight unseen from Europe if you don’t have contacts and haven’t shopped there before.

PNW buys sight unseen but that’s I think because she’s been over there several times and has trusted contacts.

Op, my advice is to take your time and find something nice in the states

[findeight]

PNW buys from the same breeders and they offer her what they know she wants. My late trainer imported a lot, used the same agent and as a frequent buyer, had access to offerings selected for that group of US trainers that go over twice a year. With a shopping list for multiple clients and other trainers. Not what the average, first timer looking for one single horse is going to be shown.

The grass isn’t always greener on the other side.

[Sunflower]

Other than saying, “it’s imported from Europe,” what is the perceived benefit of getting a horse from Europe vs from the US, Canada or South America, or anywhere else for that matter? Not saying this about the OP, but sometimes I get the impression that importing from Europe is a status-y thing, and nothing more. There are good horses everywhere. The same bloodlines are available fairly widely. So-- what is the benefit of a European import ( and then why do all of their papers seem to get lost once they hit the US?)?

[cherham]

That’s funny Sunflower…I have heard some of my US buyers proudly exclaim that their new young horse is “imported”. For sure, technically. Imported from Canada.

[findeight]

All things equal, sellers over there have less invested to get a 4 or 5 year old to the marketable stage. Costs are lower, distances shorter, they take them over sizeable fences earlier and without really polishing them on the flat or over jumping them. They also cull over there, something many over here don’t want to consider for the mediocre at best.

So they get a better idea of the horse’s talent sooner and can underprice US equivalents. But that doesn’t mean the better ones are cheap, just less then a comparable one over here. But the import costs and additional training needed can quickly even that out. It’s not a really way to get a less expensive horse trained up and into the show ring, those days are gone.

Big advantage for Pros is they can shop and see a couple hundred, sit on 50, vet 10 in 10 days or less. Or establish a relationship as a repeat buyer of youngsters with a breeder and finish their training without incurring additional expense as PNW has done. These folks can absorb a dud too, something a single horse owner can find financially devastating.

[SnicklefritzG]

Not to mention what happens if you buy a horse that you think is ok, only to find issues that crop out shortly after arrival. I believe there was a thread very recently about someone on COTH who purchased a horse who was found to have chronic issues that should have been caught in a PPE but weren’t.

A dud is one thing, but a horse who is major issues is another and who wants the hassle of an overseas lawsuit. You’d be better off putting that money towards another horse.

[Madison]

Sunflower, for sure there are people for whom it is a status thing, but it is the price to quality ratio in the US market that drives people to look to Europe, particularly when the exchange rate is good. And it is not imaginary, the prices on nice prospects here in the US are high, for many reasons, and options can be spread out, requiring a lot of time and travel to find the right horse (I actively shopped for 6+ months last year and had to cover a lot of territory to find something!). But the rub is to get the real value on importing, you either have to be good enough to know you can ride whatever steps off the plane, because the riders in the European videos are GOOD, or you have to have a really good contact/source that you can trust for a valid assessment to base your decision on.

[hunterrider33]

Keep in mind what you see on video may be very different when it steps off the plane
MOST of those horses are prepped for the video, you have no clue what “tools” they used before taking the video to make the horse appear to jump amazing and go around quietly with lead changes
Also you don’t know how the person in the video rides, the strong German/Dutch pro probably rides very well!

Most get here with no lead change (not an easy one at least), no basic flat work, and you don’t know what it’s brain is like. They also usually have no idea how to cross tie for tack up.

With all that in mind if you have a reputable agent willing to back the horse you may be ok. But for me I’d never want to buy sight unseen, I want to know it’s comfortable, can handle a mistake, and has a good head on it’s shoulders - those are all things you can’t tell from a video.

[WildandWickedWarmblo]

[QUOTE=Sunflower;9000372]
Other than saying, “it’s imported from Europe,” what is the perceived benefit of getting a horse from Europe vs from the US, Canada or South America, or anywhere else for that matter? Not saying this about the OP, but sometimes I get the impression that importing from Europe is a status-y thing, and nothing more. There are good horses everywhere. The same bloodlines are available fairly widely. So-- what is the benefit of a European import ( and then why do all of their papers seem to get lost once they hit the US?)?[/QUOTE]

UH, because horses imported from europe are bred to jump and piaffe? Have you every bought a horse imported from europe? Over there, the breeders do it right!

[WildandWickedWarmblo]

I’m talking about warmbloods of course.
American TBs are terrific as are the American breeds. But crossing breeds to produce warmbloods is something that europeans do well, and Americans just tend to cross many horses that are’t perfect, and the get is therefore imperfect.

[Sunflower]

I get that the base price of the horse is likely to be far less than what you would find in the US, in many cases. But then you have to add in the cost of importing, the cost of training that the horse may need ( most European horses will have been ridden in a deep seat, not in an American forward seat, plus as others have said, there maybe holes in the training…etc) plus, if you go in person, the cost of the trip there, etc, and while horses are cheap in Europe, not much else is.

Swings and roundabouts, I suppose, whether it pans out to search in the US or take the gamble of a sight unseen horse in Europe, or a trip to Europe to search out in person.

[Lucassb]

Madison and F8 nailed it, as usual.

I speak as another adult amateur who has imported 4 nice horses (3 hunters, one dressage horse) from Europe over the last few years.

I did not see or sit on a single one of them prior to buying them their plane tix, BUT I did see videos and I DID have a trusted contact on the 3 hunters who knew me, and knew what would be suitable for me. The dressage horse I bought off his sales video completely on my own as a barely started 4 year old BUT he was so well bred and reasonably priced, I felt confident that I could have resold him and recouped my investment if he arrived and turned out to be unsuitable for me in some way. (He actually has been exactly what I hoped for and will nevereverever be for sale.)

In contrast, trying horses here - particularly for the hunter ring, where I have decades more experience - seems a lot harder, particularly if there are budget constraints. If you have a bottomless wallet, you can go to any of the big show/sales barns and sit on a lot of horses … then I suppose all you have to worry about is getting a good vetting to include sophisticated blood work, and trying to ensure you really understand how the horse has been “prepped” for you to sit on. I’ve seen a lot of very beautiful, very expensive hunters that have been “prepared” in a way that I personally wouldn’t be comfortable with or willing to replicate.

If you buy from smaller shops, private individuals, or breeders… there may be much less of that sort of risk, but IME it was quite difficult to A) find those horses and B) arrange travel to see them, as by definition they are in small programs and spread out all over the place. I personally wasn’t willing to get on a plane to see one or two horses, but that may not be the case for everyone. And I sure didn’t want to do that 10 or 12 times in my search. (And to everyone who always objects to the cost of a plane ticket for an import, saying it adds no value… I say, I’d rather buy my selected horse a ticket than spend that $$ flying myself around the country.) For me it’s not just the expense but the TIME factor.

I am definitively NOT saying you can’t find a nice horse here. I just found it a lot easier to buy in Europe, and so I’ll continue to do so.

[Lucassb]

Oh and for the record, unless you do have really good reliable contacts in Europe, IMO it is worth paying the commission to someone with those kinds of relationships to help you.