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Importing Horses From Europe (lots of questions)!

Hunter/Jumper
#1

Hi everyone!
I’m currently seeking the thoughts and opinions of everyone. I have mainly purchased most of my horses here in the states, going and trying each individual ones, but I have found the market lately to be lack luster. Even when I have a mid-five figure budget, traveling 12 hour trips to sit on five horses and maybe finding one horse I would entertain, just was no longer worth the hassle. The idea of importing has been stuck in my head as I’m going back through this process again. For what I want, 4-8 prospect for the hunter ring. can be green, need show miles, need lead change smoothed out, etc. for a pretty good budget (mid-low fives) I’m finding nothing. Almost everything I’ve looked at just has me wanting to skip by.

So, the idea of importing has been presented. It seems the horses over there are of higher quality compared to what I have seen in the states. (I’m constantly on websites, Facebook, breeders groups, etc. and it’s been difficult to find any. I even had people trying to sell me a horse for 60k that had to be ran into the fence for a lead change and could barely keep its cool doing a course cause she was so fried). With most of my experience being in the states, I’ve been reading up and still find myself with loads of questions.

It’s been silently agreed upon that my next horse will be imported. What hasn’t been decided is whether or not we will be flying over to Europe or simply buying off videos. There are a lot of hidden fees I find, so I would love to ask some questions to everyone who has done this.

  1. If flying to Europe, how much was your expense on the TRIP alone? I’m expecting worse case scenario of 10k for importing, but have seen very little about the outside expenses. This means; food, sleeping arrangements, plane tickets, etc.

  2. Follow up to 1, did you find that flying to certain places made the tickets more affordable in the end or was the difference worth it? I would be flying out of the busiest airport in the states, so they have lots of international flights.

  3. Did you have an agent take you?
    I do not have any long lasting friends in Europe, which is a concern. I’m not certain where to start or where to begin. I’m worried about communication barriers, as well as finding places that have the horses I want.

  4. if you did not have an agent, how did you handle the communication with barns?

  5. Did you try horses or did you purchase them off videos? If so, how was your experience?
    My concern with not trying is if I end up purchasing videos without a reliable source. My own show horse of six years was one that I was lied to about, turned out to be a terrible rearer and spooker, and I knew the people. Would hate to just buy off videos, not knowing anyone or anything, and put myself in a bad situation.

I had one friend purchase a horse of videos from someone who was suppose to be reliable. They were told the horse was 16.2 hands. When he stepped off the trailer, he was 17.2, which then caused the person to never get on him.

My one concern with the agents is everyone wants a portion of something. I’m not certain how this is split up over there as, like I said, for the past 10 years I have not used anyone else for my shopping here in the states. Even in terms of young prospects for ponies, I’ve found it increasingly harder to find them of good quality.

im hoping everyone can help me out with this so I can get a better feel. As well, if you know of any groups I should maybe reach out to or stay away from, I would love to know. It’s a totally different feel from shopping here, so I want to get the best idea!

#2

Do you have a trainer? Does your trainer have European connections?

How many horses have you bought so far in life and what are you looking for?

Have you considered traveling to American show hubs especially the winter circuit in Florida and California where a lot of horses are for sale?

I would say your travel expenses are going to be similar to regular vacation or business travel so you could get a ballpark estimate of airfare and hotel rooms from something like Expedia or Travelocity. Obviously there are “peak” times to travel and airfares vary a great deal. Obviously you need to have an idea what countries you want to visit. If you play with those websites you will see what routes are currently most affordable.

And no. You should not be buying off videos alone. The only people who can get away with that are high volume trainers who can afford to take a loss on a horse occasionally.

I’m confused about the “silently agreed” and the “we” who will be buying. Does this refer to a trainer? If so have you asked them these questions?

It does sound like you’ve had bad luck with previous horse and current shopping trips. How much of this is on the shoulders of your current trainer? If they can’t find you nice horses in the USA or they are not honest then just shopping in Europe won’t help

You might also of course consider shopping in Canada. The current exchange rate might make horses more affordable.

4 Likes
#3

Read this thread: https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/hunter-jumper/10539293-warmblood-import-nightmare. There is a happy ending but yikes!

I know how hard it is to find what you are looking for because I’m the same amateur looking for the same horse. After reading this and hearing lots of other stories I’m resigned to pay the premium of one already here and showing, born here or imported. That is risk enough.

I am old enough and jaded enough to have realized you pay the premium one way or another (either in a mistake like your rearer and cutting your losses or putting the miles in on your own dime for the greenie).

Either way its a crazy amount of money for “real” people with “real” jobs. Just no way around it without a really (hard to replicate) stroke of luck. The prices are inflated by all the less suitable horses folks who do volume sift through for the one you and I want.

Good luck in whatever you decide. Its a tough road (and I’d prefer a road, not plane ride)

3 Likes
#4

We have imported in our barn twice successfully with no issues (smooth sailing for the horses, horses were as advertised) from Martin Leh who operates Equisales. He’s great to work with, we’ve bought off video both times with him. Otherwise I know people who have gone to Europe and typically brought a trainer with them to try horses. If you’re going that route I’d recommend hooking up with a trainer that does this regularly and using their contacts, of course you’ll pay a finders fee and all their expenses for that so you would have to factor that into your budget. The warmblood import nightmate thread demonstrates an unusual happenstance but has some great advice in it in terms of the contract you have with the seller in case the horse can’t be released from quarantine in the states, or for your contract with the insurance agent should the worse happen and the horse has to be put down in transit. A knowledgeable trainer who imports a lot I would expect has these things in place already.

My barn mate that recently imported one from Martin did so because she had the same problem as you, a low-mid fives budget for a 2’6-3’ hunter and felt like everything she was being shown was under quality for the price tag. It feels like the market here has really exploded. I was shopping last spring for something similar and had similar problems but ultimately got lucky with an overgrown large pony hunter that was bred to be a top of the line large and he’s now pushing 15.2 as he gets close to turning 5 (ideal size for me). However, a 4 year old was not what I wanted, I wanted 6+, I didn’t mind in need of miles, didn’t need to be a fancy mover, etc. Everything I saw in that age and my budget either felt like the quality of the animal didn’t match the price tag, it had no basics or good flat work installed, or I felt like I couldn’t trust the seller on how much the horse was prepped. I sat on some older horses, didn’t mind some maintenance, similar problems. So I started looking younger and looking to work directly with breeders who had given their horses solid foundations and basic training but they were otherwise untouched by show barns. Then I stumbled onto pony breeders and I was in business. Turns out honies can be tough to sell lol. The one I got would have been high fives as a 4 year old if he’d measure, alas for them, not so much, so low fives for me.

Good luck!

2 Likes
#5

I have worked (a number of times now) with Alize at French Horse Exports (frenchhorseexports.com). She is easy to work with and I trust her. She charges a 10% commission - you pay the seller directly for the horse and Alize separately for commission so there’s no question about who’s getting what. If you buy a horse there’s no additional cost for her time organizing the horse tour and chauffeuring you around. If you don’t, I think the cost is something like 100€ per day.

I went over in the fall (which wasn’t the greatest time because a lot of the young horses are on vacation, after the regional and national championships are over). But I did end up finding a 4yo I liked, who unfortunately tested positive for piro. So I went back in the spring, which was great. I spent 2 days watching the young horses show at St Lo and made a list of the ones I was interested in (although a bunch of the ones I liked weren’t for sale) and spent another day at a different show doing the same thing. I wasn’t worried about making it a quick trip, so I think I spent 5 days over there and sat on 30 or so horses.

I have a very specific list of radiographs and bloodwork that I want in a PPE, and I also have the lungeing, flexions, etc video’d and sent to me. It’s not a concern for me with Alize, but if I was buying through someone I didn’t know as well, I’d want to be sure the horse getting vetted was the horse I had chosen 😊.

#6

I’m at a current situation where going over is pretty slim, but buying off videos is not. I’ve been in the process of moving for the past couple months and, even though I’m in my new place, it never feels like you are done. So much to do and such little time. That’s the big concern is not being able to fly over. I would love to, but seeing the prices for tickets and having just moved, it seems a little too much to manage. Luckily, I have a separate horse account where all my prior resale’s money has been put so I can afford purchasing something.

I did find someone in FL who imports and has a team throughout Europe. She says you send them videos of your riding, what you are looking for and budget, and they’ll send videos. From there, if you find any you like, they’ll go out and personally ride the horses and take videos. They have a vet in holland that vets the American way. They charge 10% and handle everything.

I guess always hard if you don’t know the person, but in the end I’ve had plenty of bad buying experiences from people I personally know. Sigh… Would be so much easier if I could just fly out it seems

#7

And I have looked at Florida. Was trying to plan a trip to either Ocala or Wellington, but found really nothing. Sometimes Florida is a catch it seems. I know plenty of people who over price horses down in Florida to market towards the people there, even if there horse isn’t worth it.
One of my clients bought a horse from someone I know and they said the exact same thing. Horse was in Wellington, they added a few more zeros to it to appeal to everyone there, horse didn’t sell. Went to someone else, they priced the horse reasonably, we ended up buying cause it was a decent price for the horses quality.

#8

If you’ve been burned before, the extra few thousand is really worth spending to sit on the horse. As amateurs, there are rides we like and rides we don’t like. And as you’ve found out, nothing is more expensive than a horse we don’t want. So I say, if it means trimming your budget to ride them, I would do it, even if ticket prices have gone up.

I think video can be really misleading and often not intentionally. I’m really tall and prefer my jumpers to carry their heads pretty high. We tried one last weekend where the video looked like the mare was sky high with her head, but It was super downhill once I got on. I cannot tell you how many had these good videoS and you see it in person and it’s totally different to ride. Not even necessarily bad, but just different. Light horses suddenly feel heavy, or you’re kicking what looked like a nice blood horse.

I think it’s a little easier to buy off video for a hunter, bc the way it goes is so critical, so you can see the good canter and a nice jump, but again, as amateurs, we need to be able to ride them.

If you can, try to fly on Tuesdays and Saturdays. Those are typically softer days for airline travel. That can make a big difference.

Also I would highly recommend working with an agent. If you’re going to Germany, the German Horse Center is not a bad place to start, you won’t pay the absolute best price, but they do a solid job. I’m in regular contact with Tom at Equestrix and he deeply understands the American market. He is really nice to work with and I think he has a young hunter in thermal right now. I’ve heard good things too about Alize as well.

Do you have a trainer? It’s a good idea to have buy in with your trainer bc having a horse your trainer doesn’t like also is a drag. AsK me how I know!

honestly, with your history, I would be way more keen to shop here and remember that advertised prices are not the same as what the horse sells for. In your shoes, I would go to thermal for week 7 or 8 and post an ISO ad on the thermal classifieds. People are a bit more realistic on price weeks 7 and 8 than they are week 1.

4 Likes
#9

Honestly if you are spending $50,000 on a horse and $15,000 to import it, I think the $2000 or so maximum that it would take to fly to Europe stay in moderate hotels, eat, and maybe take a train around would be a very small part of the total costs

I’ve been to Europe several times over the years and my main air ticket never cost me over $600. All in the $500 plus range. You can get some crazy cheap flights inside Europe with some of the discount airlines. Other than that your travel expenses like hotel bus taxi train food etc in a European country will be about the same range as traveling in North America.

In other words a trip to Europe is not that much more expensive than a long haul trip in North America.

6 Likes
#10

Definitely have a smaller budget this time around when compared to before, but do you have any general ideas on good airlines to check out? I mainly always use Delta as it’s my go to. Tickets are looking like $1200+ per person there.

#11

Go onto the discounter websites like Expedia and Travelocity and put in some different date ranges.

All the airlines have a range of prices and all the airlines discount tickets for some routes when they aren’t filling a flight. Don’t go through the websites for the airline. Go through the discounter websites.

You can end up with two people sitting side by side on an airplane and one person paid $1200 and the other person paid $500.

I traveled on the cheap for years back when I was in graduate school and always booked via one of those websites. I haven’t been traveling as much lately but you just need to get on a website like that and play with dates and cities. Sometimes staying over an extra day or flying on a Sunday or routing through a particular hub can make all the difference.

1 Like
#12

Did you read the Warmblood Import Nightmare thread? You really should before you go any further. If a $1200 plane ticket is this big a deterrent, then it’s probably a better idea to stay and shop in North America. Many people have suggested Canada because of their weak dollar. I’d look into that long before going to Europe if money is tight.

8 Likes
#13

If you “can’t find” sales horses at WEF or Ocala, either your budget is not realistic or you need to develop more networking connections. This is especially true as the circuits go on and people don’t want to pay to ship their sales horses back home.

Have you tried looking at the Exchange website? It includes a section that identifies which horses are showing where, so you could build a critical mass.

4 Likes
#14

If you fly weekday to weekday you should be able to fly into a major hub in Europe easily for $1200 or less. I usually fly Delta also. I always fly something like Tues-Mon for this reason for my business trips. Use the “my dates are flexible” option when looking and it’ll give you the price map. If you can fly into a major hub and take a train where you need to go that can help. I’m in Cincinnati and I’ve seen round trip tickets weekday to weekday on our direct flight into Paris for $600 or less before in economy. Try to time it around popular tourist times meaning avoid the summer mostly, fall is a good time, prices dip a bit.

I also second the hunter jumper exchange website, you can try contacting Amber directly with your needs and she might be able to direct you to the best sales barns for your goals.

#15

^^^^ This.

2 Likes
#16

I was just shopping at Desert International Horse Park in California looking for basically the exact same thing. I found tons and tons to try. All nice. 3 exceptional. Bought two of them. Pm me if you’d like some info.

4 Likes
#17

Agreed.

OP, where are you located? The California Winter Circuit has a lot of options if you can’t find anything in Florida. Although I have been to Ocala and Wellington, and with that budget you should be able to find something in Ocala (not Wellington). PM me.

I second that you should read the entire Horse Import Nightmare thread, which does in the end have a happy ending but if you have the budget to import, you need to have the budget to go in person and sit on horses. Canada and Mexico/Argentina may be other cheaper options.

#18

Google Flights will pull up your options. I’m headed over to shop this Friday and booked super last minute under $1000.

IMHO, you aren’t going to find the type of bargain/project that you are describing in Wellington. The market there is much more for made horses, and “on-track” prospects - both of which will be priced appropriately. Depending what you mean by mid-low five figures, and how much quality you expect to get for that price, I’d just look directly from breeders, or in the bigger horse areas like Ocala, VA, etc.

#19

Honestly, look at eventers that are too slow or don’t want to jump down into the big scary water jumps! I found an 8 year old Warmblood with a record at Prelim and in the jumpers for less than half my lease budget. You can find some brave soldiers that won’t bat an eyelash - plus, eventers are more autonomous, so if you don’t know what choice to make at a jump, they usually have your back - and all for a really good price.

5 Likes
#20

Thanks everyone for all the input! I’m located in the South near GA, so never even considered going to California really… I’ll have to look into that, as well as Canada. Around here, it’s a lot more common to import from Europe than to buy from Canada, so I’ll have to start looking into areas where there may be stables.

Correct me if I’m wrong, which I think I may be, but is there any quarantine for horses coming from Canada? I know that I believe I heard there’s not because they don’t cross any water and you just pay an importation fee.

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