what your opinion on importing project horses. ie: horses that can jump but were to slow for the jumpers. what was your experience with importing a horse (the sellers, selection, and honesty with sellers). who did you use for shipping/ about how much did you pay.
ohh I’ll play! I’ve imported three horses. All three were imported to be hunters. One I rode for a couple years and sold for quite a bit of money. One was lovely but ended up being neuro and had to be put down. The last one just doesn’t want to be a hunter and neither do I, so we do the jumpers.
Everyone will tell you this, but all three of them were much greener when they got here than on their videos or even when I tried them. The first in particular. Even though I sold him for a lot of money, it took a long time of showing and training to get that so I doubt I even broke even. And everything went right, we had ZERO vet issues to stall his progress. I think honestly it is super hard to make any kind of money importing hunters unless you can turn them around quickly. There are much easier ways to make money that’s for sure.
The second recommendation I have is to xray the neck and back. Many Europeans think we are nuts with our 32 views of the legs and no pictures of the neck and back and after having to put down an absolute peach of a horse, I agree with them.
I think you can find great projects in the US, but that it takes a great deal more leg work than a few days in Europe. People can also be wildly unrealistic about pricing in the US. It IS a little less risky bc you have a stronger sense how they will be if you buy them. The last two I imported absolutely flipped character-wise when they got here i.e. the younger one was kind of spooky and timid when I tried him but ended up being terrifically brave when he came over and the absolute reverse for the other horse.
I used Dutta for shipping and paid about $9-10k for geldings to Los Angeles.
12 Likes
I do this, but your questions are vague.
Perhaps provide what you’re actually looking to do. Are you looking to import slow horses as hunter prospects? Are you looking at importing youngsters that don’t free jump “well enough” to aim for the jumper ring? Are you planning on showing the horses yourself? Are you hoping to import super temperaments or hoping to find top prospects that have somehow been overlooked? Are you looking for european connections that other people have used? Are you hoping to resell or are you wanting to buy a horse for yourself?
To answer your first question - my experiences have been terrific in all regards. I work with consummate horsemen who know exactly what I’m looking for (essentially horses who don’t have the scope to do the really big/1.60m stuff but have to-die-for temperaments), and provide me with stellar horse after stellar horse. I plan to show them for a solid show season before they’re truly marketable. I’ve found that most US buyers don’t put much stock in a european show record, and want to see what they can do and actually do here.
Shipping sorts itself out (more or less), but knowing which coast you’re on (or closer to) makes a difference, so where are you? Or which import location are you closest to? Also, there are a bunch of threads you can search for that detail out the import costs. I count on paying about $10k to import a gelding to Seattle and $14k to import a mare here.
3 Likes
Take Greys advice. And spend the $3,500 it may take to go to Europe for 3 days to try horses. I imported a 4 year old off video (with my trainers help). He is sweet and willing and I adore him, but I probably would not have bought him had I ridden him first and he was a lot more green than I anticipated. Maybe that was just me being foolish… It cost me about $9,000 to get him from Holland to my doorsetp in Oregon. We used Apollo for the quarentine and US transfer. The seller arranged shipping on the European end. I’d buy again from Europe in a heartbeat, but I’d go ride them first.
8 Likes
All of this advice is spot-on. I think it comes down to your connections in Europe and your own, true ability to make a very, very green horse into a nice hunter. Everything I’ve known that’s come over, including my own, has been FAR more green than anticipated, and really know little more than to canter to jump, jump, canter away. They have no clue how to carry themselves, and that, IMO, takes time, patience and talent to teach them correctly. Many of them also are very nervous about traffic, having never been exposed to it, and lose their minds in the schooling ring. So, for $10,000 added onto the price plus conversion fees, commissions, time and money to make them up, you’re not likely to make any money this way unless you’re a very good pro with very good eyes in Europe.
2 Likes
Come to Ireland!!!
I will repeat what greysfordays said about back and neck exrays - very, very important! No matter where you buy!! I have started exraying all my youngsters back before I even get on them - expensive, yet, but saves a lot of heartache down the road!!
7 Likes
Oh damn. I had written a long post which went poof. And it was not saved, as it usually is, by the program.
Short story:
I have bought 4 horses sight unseen. All 4 have been exactly as advertised – talented, kind and trainable. The first one (bought as a 4 month old) is now 15 and is still wonderful. Bought as an ammie hunter for me
But horses 2, 3. and 4 have all come down with problems that only developed 2+ years after I bought them (2 neuro, 1 conformational, which only developed when he was asked to 'sit behind and lift his back and front end. (dressage horse who became lame when schooling third level).
I would still have bought all 4, since they were as advertised (talented, good ammie attitude, and smart). None of the problems appeared for 2+ years after buying them, so having bought them sight unseen had nothing to do with how I bought them.
But all 4 were very young – from 4 months to 4 years. One is still going strong at 15, but the other 3 developed issues (from serious neuro issues which compromised their futures ___> to euthanization) that were not apparent for 2+ years.
What can I learn from this?
-
2 of 4 horses: Have abbreviated neuro tests performed on all horses I have vetted ---- But who knows… the issues were not visible with a normal vetting, they might have been caught with the additional testing.
-
buy slightly older horses – from 3 to 5, even if I have to pay more. But, still, the neuro signs and conformational problems did not appear until they were four or older.
This is really depressing. I had not looked at all 4 horses as a group before writing this. I must be doing something wrong; but I will have to think hard.
#1 had only a cursory vetting. Paid $7500 and is perfect.
#2 had decent vetting Paid $20,000. Had massive cervical neuro problems which only appeared 3 years later. Neuro test might have shown problems, but, then again, might not.
#3 had decent vetting, but after the fact I was aware that not everything was disclosed. – Lesson: have all results sent to my vet. Oldest horse I bought. Paid $25,000
#4 Problem became apparent after 1.5 years, Would cervical x-rays shown anything at age 2? I do not know
#4 had abbreviated vetting… Paid $18,000. Nothing showed up for 1.5 years. Would neuro test have been useful?
Oh…My…God. In the last 10 years I have paid over $70,000 and have only my PeteyPuppy to show for it. I love my boys, but the risk/reward of owning horses is really depressing.
10 Likes
There are some nice horses to be had over here for a fraction of the cost, you. have to know who to talk to. When I look at what I paid for my horse and what I would have paid for her in the US, it’s crazy.
2 Likes
It depends on your situation.
Do you have your own facility? Do you have a professional trainer to ride and train the horse or can you? Do you have or are you able to market and show the horse at shows and deal with prospective buyers etc?
I have imported two horses. Both horses were exactly as described. I knew they were both very green with no jumping experience so I was prepared for that journey. Fast forward five years and six for the other I feel is was a good decision and I enjoy both so much. One has had some physical issues that we have over come but that can happen with any horse no matter where they come from. The brokers I have dealt with were very upfront with what they knew.
I have had several local horse purchases over the years. I have had good and bad experiences as well.
Selection for me is few and far between because I like a certain type. But for resale your selection, depending on what you are looking for should be greater.
Shipping was great - Used Guido Klatte and Jet Pets - about 9,000 from Europe to LA.
Two things I see with many imports - they become hoof sore. Some of us think it may be due to the harder ground here vs the damper climate where they were imported from. And neurological issues. Many horses have cervical compression’s and reason for what Greysfordays had mentioned - cervical and back x rays.
Knowing your seller and/or broker. If you venture out it is beneficial to talk to others and develop a relationship with good people. As you probably know there are some out there that are not so honest. Depending of if you want to do this as a business.
If importing is about $US 10,000 and associated travel costs and vetting etc are going to be about $5000? Then you aren’t saving much money until you can get a European horse for at least $US 20,000 less than the equivalent North American horse. Or Canadian $30,000.
Obviously being imported has cachet and raises the resale value which muddies things.
But could you buy a 3 year old in Europe for $10,000 that would cost $30,000 in the US? Or pay $30,000 for one that would cost $50,000 in the US? Or could you find the same quality for the same price if you shopped and drove a hard bargain?
OP, what, exactly, is your definition of " project horse"? To me, it’s a cheap horse that needs a lot of work, maybe older, maybe very young and either way the object is to develop it for resale and/or competition.
And what can you do to develop the project horse and what do you have to pay a professional to do for you? How much a month is it going to cost you?
IMO the issue with imports is you are starting with over 10k in the horse not including purchase price. Unless you are a pro level rider and have lower then average board costs, you can get into these horses for 30k+ in a hurry. If you are thinking of resale or flipping, you also need to know a lot of people who regularly pay mid 5 figures on up for their horses.
So…what do you mean by “project horse”?
2 Likes
In regards to all the neuro related issues: I know of several trainers who treat for EPM the second an import lands in their barn with no testing done. They just arrive and start treatment. The trip can be very stressful and I know of many who have had horses end up with EPM not long after arrival. We’ve had several (not imported) horses with EPM on our farm in the States and if I imported one I would probably treat as soon as it arrived accordingly.
The missing piece in your equation is that you can spend that travel money to go to Europe and see a much larger selection in a small geographic area, all in one trip. One of the challenges of shopping in the US is that it can be hard to find critical mass in one place, and you can spend a LOT of money and time traveling and trying horses. And if you have failed PPE’s – I had 3 – your costs in the US can add up fast. So that’s why some people are willing to cross the pond and try to do it in one trip. And prices in the US are definitely higher on comparable horses.
But as far as a project horse if the goal is to make money you better be able to ride whatever shows up, because I agree that odds are high it is much greener when it gets here, or needs to be reschooled somewhat for the new job if it is switching to the hunter ring. If you have to put board and training into them, making money on resale becomes so much more difficult.
1 Like
Why? There is limited evidence of the disease in europe so are they treating to prevent infection here while their immune system is stressed?
1 Like
I’m a little confused about this. The neuro issues I’ve seen (and I’ve known four horses directly who had to be put down for neurological issues) were all spinal related, not EPM. My understanding is that EPM is much more common on the East Coast than West Coast of the US and almost unheard of in Europe. I’ve definitely heard of people using gastroguard as a prophylactic for the journey but never a round of Marquis.
2 Likes
We import our own as our young ones are still in Argentina. We also bring a lot of clients over to Argentina to shop. There are definitely good deals to be had and our clients have always liked the fact that they can spend 4-5 days and see a huge number of horses. Quite a few have brought jumpers over who became very succesful hunters. Others buy 3 YOs and either have them started in Argentina or bring them over and start them themselves. We pay 9K roughly for everything through quarantine in Miami and then whatever shipping to final destination is (we ship our own).
Your question is vague but obviously the key to having a good experience is a) having someone you trust to guide you through the process b) being realistic about what you are capable of doing and c) some luck. Always luck 
2 Likes
Believe OP here is a younger person. In which case she should be asking her trainer these questions and if this is something she should consider or she should stay closer to home with horses that are projects she can handle with a minimum of direct Pro help she’d have to pay for.
2 Likes
You are right and after looking at the OPs posting history I’m guessing this is a hypothetical question, as OP less than a year ago was looking at low end horses with reluctant parents.
OP, savvy trainers import horses and sell them on with the cachet of being imported. Well off adult amateurs who like to spend money will also drop cash on an imported horse. For most of us, it’s neither feasible nor necessary. There are plenty of very good horses in North America and usually plenty of very good horses within a half a day’s drive of wherever you are.
It’s something that makes more sense towards the top of the market, and not that much lower down.
4 Likes
That’s exactly why they’re doing it from what I’ve been told.
East coast and Midwest struggle with EPM. If the neuro issues are spinal related it’d be moot to do an EPM treatment, but treating for it is what I’ve heard some area East coast and Midwest trainers do. If it were me I wouldn’t use Marquis, that stuff is crazy expensive. I’d use something like the herbal Qing Hao San we’ve seen if be effective and it’s considerably less expensive.
