Not all farriers are equal when it comes to the comfort of the horse. The way a farrier holds the foot and the height and twist he puts on it all have an effect on the horses comfort.
Not all horses like having a nail pounded in. My mare was like that and my farrier was quick and would put in a few and then put the foot down before she would try and snatch it away. Eventually she did better.
Sounds like his behavior COULD be a combo of the farrier and your horses lack of respect for his handlers. Both are things that consistent ground work will take care of. Maybe watch how the farrier holds him next time?
You might need something more substantial than a hoof pick to practice the nailing, too. That won’t cause nearly the same sensations that a hammer will.
Ok I did not read all the answers so somebody may have said this, but I had a stud colt that was badly behaved for the farrier so I worked with him,had multiple people handle his feet.
He was perfect for everybody but the farrier.
Turns our it was me, I have a very in demand farrier and I was getting anxious because I did not want to have him drop me as a customer!
Horses are very good at picking up on our anxiety,
maybe you could just try a shot of bourbon for you before the farrier comes.
As someone who is currently trying to undo the effects of this, I don’t recommend it. What it does is teach the horse to fight and then you hope that the person is strong and coordinated enough to “win”. In the process the leg usually ends up really compressed and if you have a horse with half a brain, they are going to try and get away from the person before the leg gets picked up the next time. I have a horse who has a specific foot that was clearly fought over. When you go to pick it up she will try to sit and goes into a genuine panic. My farrier refuses to fight a horse. She takes longer than either one of us would like but she’s getting better each time by removing pressure before the horse feels the need to escape pressure.
I’d pay my farrier 1.5-2x their normal rate and ask if they would work with me to fix this problem. If the farrier releases the pressure (foot hold) before the horse pulls back, it removes the reason to be anxious. That may mean one rasp, set down, pick up, two rasps, set down, pick up, etc. It is really time consuming but fighting a horse gives them a reason to fight.
I have one horse that I had to drug to have his hind feet done. When I switched barns and switched farrier no more drugs. New farrier was quite a bit shorter. Horse had some mild hock issues that the talker farrier would make painful since he had to hold the leg higher. I now pre-load him with bute the evening before and the morning of. He is no longer getting shod in the back but it makes him more comfortable and then he is better for the farrier.
If he is a little uncomfortable somewhere then maybe a little bute would help.
Clicker training works really well for these kinds of issues too, because not only does the horse get rewarded for cooperatiing, but he gets rewarded for the farrier’s presence and everything to do with shoeing, as well. Click for relaxation, increase the length of time slowly, get the horse as close to perfect as possible before the farrier comes, and then get the behaviors you’ve shaped on a variable rate of reinforcement in case the farrier doesn’t want you feeding treats while they’re under the horse.
In fact, it’s the same recipe for any kind of training, except it’s much harder to rush clicker training so it helps motivate the trainer to take the time that it takes.
I agree. I’m actually clickering for this issue. My farrier is super against clicker training but otherwise is a phenomenal barefoot trimmer so we clicker between sessions and then he does the approach and retreat method for her actual appointments. I think we would improve more quickly with him being on board but we are still getting way better.
How well behaved is your horse normally? How much ground work/etc do you do? How well does he give to pressure? Is he hobble trained? If physical issues are ruled out, it’s usually a case of manners and not having been required to have them
Great advice here-I have one that will pull back dramatically (almost like she is afraid of being contained…) You can not pull the hoof out in front of her …So I have been doing the pick up and put down …but they do have to hold it for the farrier …so I have also made her go forward (quietly) around me when she pulls back when I have held too long for her liking (which is not long at all). I am assuming if she can figure out if she pulls back, I will make her go forward in circles around me and make her “work”? it seems to have helped with how long I can hold her hoof up. Just wondering of I am off base and lucky it has worked despite my method! ?
(Note: She is a powerfully built mare so there is no way anyone is holding on to it when she pulls back!)
I’m very careful about forcing a horse to work on small circles as a punishment, because I feel like it’s hard enough to keep horses sound without stressing them that way. It’s also one of the reasons I use clicker training for anything I can, because it’s low impact and builds the behaviors I want, rather than suppressing other behavior along with the ones I want to suppress.
A horse doesn’t really have the brainpower to connect the dots in the way you’re trying to train. Horses learn from the release of pressure. What you are doing is going from a situation of pressure - the foot on the stand - to a situation of pressure - working in a small circle. You might be tiring her out a little bit and getting her in a frame of mind where submitting to something she doesn’t like feels easier than resisting. But you’re not actually teaching her.
You need to assess what is causing her concern around putting her foot up, including physical discomfort. If she is sore in any of her feet, or hocks, or shoulder, it will be uncomfortable for her to put her foot on the stand. If she reacts this way more for placing her foot forward onto the post than backwards onto the cradle, I’d think it’s likely the stand is jacked up too high and is uncomfortable for her shoulders. Try lowering it and see what happens.
Otherwise, once you’ve ruled out pain, you need to show her that foot on the stand = a zone of no pressure, AND that she will get her foot back. It sounds like you know what her threshold is - is it 10 seconds? 30? 1 minute? For example’s sake, let’s say it’s 1 minute. What you need to do is put her foot up, and at 40 seconds, you take it back off and place it down, and give her a scratch. Do that 2 or 3 times and then call it a day. Or go do something else for a few minutes before coming back. Then each session you increase the time a little bit until she’s reliably mentally ok with the situation. When you get her there and she’s ok with having her foot up long enough to have work done - ensure you still enforce breaks during your farrier sessions.
It takes some time, but it’s well worth it and a much much kinder approach than just asking them to shut down mentally and accept it.
True, but they can also learn from punishment, and as long as the horse connects pulling her hoof away to the discomfort of the small circles it could work. I think it’s safer and makes more sense to reward her for relaxing and leaving her hoof where it is, but unpleasant consequences for taking it away can help get the message across, too.
When I got my pony 7 years ago he was horrid for the farrier!! He would literally sit on the farrier, kick, etc.
When I bought him I began working on picking up his feet. To stay safe I used a cotton lead rope around the pastern and worked slowly on bringing that foot up and holding it up. 1 second, 2 seconds, etc. Lots of praise. Usually the reason a horse gets so bad is because they are not strong enough to hold themselves up and balance on 3 legs - seriously. Work on building that strength.
The next time the farrier came out I had a whole bag of baby carrots and i kept stuffing his face while the farrier did his thing. Noooo problem. Each time the farrier came I used fewer carrots until he was down to one carrot per foot done. Now he gets a couple nom noms when it’s all over.
Mine did this. He did better for farriers who could work on the front feet without the stand. My preferred farrier is getting too old and sore to go without especially for my dinosaur horse. But he was much better with the hind feet on a stand or jack. He was also snatchy with the front feet for the vets. Probably from having a front limb injury young. He was also very mouthy and kind of adhd. What worked best was keeping his mouth busy while working on the front feet. Usually timed it for his mid morning hay. I also worked him (at least a light longe) beforehand if possible. Helped him focus. And the first couple nails on each front shoe maybe meant cookies or tiny bits of carrots so he would be still. If he had been off enough days for some reason (lameness, pulled shoe), I got a mild cocktail from my vet that would last long enough to get both front feet done. At first even with some sedation he would snatch away sometimes but he was less inclined to try to stand up on the stand.
It sounds mostly like you have a young and bored horse who toes the line on manners. Enough to be a real PITA but not super dangerous. It will get better but it may be slow. Sometimes correcting this type makes it more of a game. I found drugs and/or distraction to work better.
Yes yes and yes. This is what I think, too. In general, his manners are okay, but he’s a real tester. Like, “let’s see how much I can get away with today” type. I’ll need to try distraction. Somebody previously suggested a hay bag, and that sounds like a good idea. Now to get my farrier on board
