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In memory of November Rain

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#261

[QUOTE=Coreene;3815068]
nlk, 1998 was the World Equestrian Games in Rome; there were no Olympics in 1998.[/QUOTE]

Yeah thanks I miss typed someone else sent me a pm too! My mistake. I’m trying to find the info from th original board.

I gave a quick update that he found a home and one of the girls came back with this whole rode in the Olympics by …placed 18th… only just used the same year as WEG. I didn’t pay attention to the dates… So I’m trying to cross reference this, and this is also from someone who knew the difference between the WEG and Olympics so that wasn’t the mistake.

Thanks again! Like everyone else I find his history fascinating and I’m just trying to keep up that’s why there’s all the question marks:lol:

#262

If you want to read a similar story, search COTH for ‘Flint’
People trust other people and sometimes that trust is not warranted, or the situation is misunderstood and the horse gets shuffled along without the ‘owner’ knowing. It happens more than any of us want to think.

I think Addison noted, let’s focus on this being a wake up call for each of us to look around and see if there is a situation in which we can help, rather then pointing fingers when we don’t have the whole story. Let’s keep it positive, like Dux has- he’s not ruffled, he appears happy to meet new friends and [imo] has already attached himself to Tazer. Smart boy!

#263

[QUOTE=jetsetter;3815063]

Also i’m assuming that the rider from the Traders Point pictures is a girl by the name of Gabrielle Stern??[/QUOTE]
He did several classes at Traders Point with a couple different riders.
I have no idea who is who.

#264

[QUOTE=Angela Freda;3815281]
He did several classes at Traders Point with a couple different riders.
I have no idea who is who.[/QUOTE]

Flashe may know - she posts here on occasion.

#265

This has been an amazing thread! SO glad that this horse found a happy home and can live in the life he deserves. I wish that for all of them and thank you to all the wonderful people who love and respect these kind creatures! Amazing! A restoration of faith on this COLD Monday morning!

#266

[QUOTE=Angela Freda;3815281]
He did several classes at Traders Point with a couple different riders.
I have no idea who is who.[/QUOTE]

According to the results from TPH 07 on Horseshowsonline.com , he was shown by Gaby Stern in the Low Jr/AO Jumpers & Jill Knowles (trainer) in a Level 6 class.

#267

Oh, for heaven’s sake. People sell horses all the time and thank god they do or none of the rest of us would ever own one.

I sold Midge in 2004 to a nice family who I know still had her last year. Do they still? I don’t know. Including that family, Midge was owned by four different people. If she ended up in a bad way, which one of us was ‘responsible’?

The horse after Midge I sold to another nice family who now has him for sale again. I am working hard to keep track of him but, I did sell him. If He ends up in a bad spot, I will feel horrible but am I any more ‘responsible’ than the person who sold him to me, or the person who bought him from me?

The horse after that I couldn’t ride one side of. She was seven when I sold her and is now apparently an impressive talent at eventing. If she goes on to be a *** horse next year and ends up in a bad way ten years later, is that my ‘fault’ too?

My current horse is five. Since I have yet to keep a horse it’s entire lifetime, I assume I will sell him on, too. What if he is only ever ‘good’ at being a trail horse? I sell him to a family who wants a trail horse, he serves them faithfully and 15 years later, they dump him at a sale. Damn, I should have seen that coming.

I want all horses to come to a good end, but let’s face it. Very few people keep all their horses all their lives. To blame someone for selling it on when it still has usefulness is silly.

#268

[QUOTE=Angela Freda;3815266]

I think Addison noted, let’s focus on this being a wake up call for each of us to look around and see if there is a situation in which we can help, rather then pointing fingers when we don’t have the whole story. Let’s keep it positive, like Dux has- he’s not ruffled, he appears happy to meet new friends and [imo] has already attached himself to Tazer. Smart boy![/QUOTE]

Agreed!! :wink:

I loved the pics of him in his new home… lucky boy!! May him and Tazer have many happy years together.

#269

My opinion

This is my opinion - take it for what it is worth and I hope this doesn’t seem too harsh. All parties involved in the events preceeding Taser taking possession of Dux are accountable for their actions. Horses are not disposible toys that once they age, break down etc. should be cast aside. I find this situation analagous to a boxer, who was once a title winner, fighting lower class matches as he ages, then ending up as a security guard at Walmart. Thank God Dux was found by Taser. People who show at a high power level should be financially able to purchase a retirement farm for their retirees or find a suitable retirement not a chain of owners. Maybe what was done to Dux is the norm, but it has to change. I am tired of our disposible society.

On a bright note, Dux is doing well. He is bright, alert and eating well. He has some minor rainrot and some dental issues. There is a lot of life left in this boy. Maybe he will never be ridden again, but one thing I can promise is that he will never have another home or owner. THIS IS FOREVER.:slight_smile:

#270

I think that there is only one person responsible, and that is the person that let him deteriorate into this condition. The person that let him get this skinny is the only one responsible. Unless he was sent to auction right after his last show, then his last recorded owners are not at fault, they might have thought he was going to a great home with big pastures and plenty of feed and love, when in reality this is what it ended up being. But that is just my thought on the situation.

#271

I am glad to know that I am responsible for over 50 horses that I have owned in a lifetime. What shall I do with all those horses when they come knocking? Get realistic!

#272

[QUOTE=HHG-N;3815386]
I am glad to know that I am responsible for over 50 horses that I have owned in a lifetime. What shall I do with all those horses when they come knocking? Get realistic![/QUOTE]

Then I take it you are not the responsible type! Call it karma.

#273

Hey y’all, can we please not…? :no: This is such a beautiful story; how often do we get to see a real life happy ending like this? Slamming on each other, do you realize how much that lowers the tone? Please use some self-restraint and maturity and don’t make this have to be about a personal war of opinion over issues of responsibility; we’ve all got our opinions and our stories but a tit for tat just doesn’t belong on here.:sigh:

#274

For those who are uncertain as to whether this horse is actually November Rain- we have been able to trace his ownership back from the last person to show him in May 2008 to the BNT who had him during his prime here in the US.

There really is no doubt as to who he is. We also have a number of verbal confirmations from the last 4 people involved in his “care”/ownership" and they confirmed the chain of physical custody.

There are a number of people who owned him in the past that are quite upset about what happened to him. Some are downright angry while some are mostly embarrassed.

Karma will be a b*itch.!

#275

this thread is the best thread i have ever read on COTH

[QUOTE=mortebella;3815431]
This is such a beautiful story; how often do we get to see a real life happy ending like this? Slamming on each other, do you realize how much that lowers the tone? Please use some self-restraint and maturity and don’t make this have to be about a personal war of opinion over issues of responsibility; we’ve all got our opinions and our stories but a tit for tat just doesn’t belong on here.:sigh:[/QUOTE]

i agree with you mortebella, but i do think we need to discuss issues of responsibilty and learn from this story. i find it unbelievable that such a great horse could end up in such a bad position is such a short time. i am not knocking the old owners, but i am really wondering how the horse ended up in such a short time frame from a glorias show barn to a dealer’s barn advertising to pick him up for 500 bucks. why am i wondering? because i have sold horses too. and when i sell them i am completely honest about the horse’s good points and bad points because i dont want someone to take my horse if its not the right one for them. i want no surprises! and yes i usually end up losing alot of money on my sales. but thats okay because i have a piece of mind that i found the best home possible. maybe this is what the last owners did. but something went wrong. and by sharing this story with others we can maybe figure out ways to stop other horses from going through this. maybe the last owner wasnt that attatched to the horse. maybe they wanted the horse to continue being useful for someone else.
i agree with midge that most people cannot keep forever horses. and like she said if no one sells their horse, then no one would get to buy a new horse.
one thing that keeps popping into my head is why doesnt the current owners who would like to sell contact the past owners. especially with the information that was given that he was an olympic horse. like the owner in australia? i understand why they probably sold their horse to the US. big bucks! but i would think that they would care where the horse ends up. i mean even if they couldnt bring it back to australia, wouldnt they pay for a retirement home here?
and what about the owners that bought the horse and brought it to the US? wouldnt they provide a retirement home.
and what about that racehorse who ended up slaughtered in japan? wouldnt they contact the old owners that the horse was no good and they were going to sell for slaughter do you want the horse back?
this is where i am so intrigued with this story. because someone has to have deeply cared for such a great horse. and i think we can all learn from this story. i will keep tuning in to see what develops as i am really really interested to find out how the horse ended up the way he did.
and all i have to say is TAZER you are one kind soul! thank you for saving such a wonderful animal that fell through the cracks through no fault of his own!

#276

I wonder what Dux would say?

This probably should be a spin-off thread, but:
Everybody wants a horse they can ride, but what do we do with those horses who are no longer ride-able [at the level we want to ride or any level] at 15? 16? heck 10! Then there are the horses who should be done but are kept going with whatever Vet medicine can come up with. There are no guarantees but, IMO there should be at least one guarantee- for the horse.

That this horse lasted as long as he did is just- amazing. I was thinking the other day we should clone him because obviously he is made of sterner stuff than some of the TBs we have here. That is a horse worth having more of.

Our ‘Disposeable Society’ is about to bite us in the arse, recession anyone? When are we going to learn our lesson? When the children we ignored or lorded over are responsible for wiping our noses in the old age home?

Yes, horses passing hands allows so many more people to enjoy them and learn from them. It is ‘how it works’. But for everything there is an end, they can’t do it, and shouldn’t be asked to, forever.
So what is the answer?

For one we have wonderful people like Tazer, who has personally ‘rescued’ this horse, but also Rescues on a regular basis and I am repeatedly humbled by her ability to scramble and find a soft place for the horses to land.
FUGLY has a quote on her blog by the kill buyer… something to the effect that he just ‘cleans up’ taking care of the discards. Is that the reward these horses deserve, to have someone like that disposing of them, instead of retired and ‘pampered’ by having enough to eat to keep a smidgen of meat on their bones a least?
So I guess ultimately I feel there needs to be some sincere gratitude at least, to those who are cleaning up the ‘messes’ [so they do not end up being ‘taken care of’ by the likes of a kill buyer- but maybe that’s me?] that many of these horses end up as or in so that others can keep riding and showing and moving up.

I feel sorry for those who have not had the pleasure of witnessing the life of a horse even into old age. To miss out on not what you can teach them to do in the ring, but for them to teach you,… that is a loss. It’s humbling, and sad, and yet so fulfilling.

#277

I’m not at all against us learning from Dux’s story…I just don’t want to see it spoiled by folks backbiting against each other. :eek: I think we’ve “stayed tuned” because we know or sense how many other horses share his plight, and this triumphant story is some small anecdote to the pain. I would personally gather every single one of them up, if only I could - not only the old, but the mistreated as well. :cry:

#278

People that are blindly arguing the extremes of each side are doing everyone, horses included, a disservice.

Moretebella is correct, tit for tat will get us nowhere. Each side has a valid point, probably based on their involvements in the horse world . . . Someone who has owned 30+ horses will approach this with a different perspective than someone who has owned 3. Everybody should be given equal consideration if anything will ever change . . . COTH is a hotbed of different perspectives. It is PERFECT for addressing a problem. And this is a problem that should be addressed.

My perspective: I still have my junior hunter. He’s 22 now, retired since 15 (yay for sound TBs :P). My luck he’ll live to be 35. He lives on 300 acres of rolling pasture at a wonderful retirement facility 2000 miles away from me. I haven’t seen him in 3 years :frowning: and as long as he is around I will have a hard time affording another competition horse.

Soooo, if he DOES live to be 35 (good for him) I’ll be in my 40s before I can compete again.
(hence the Plan is to make money a nonissue).

The horse gave me the best years of his life and won me lots of stuff. He was not easy and while we did try to sell him for 2 years (back when he was only 10) it became clear there were too few people that could ride him . . .

I knew he’d end up in a bad way. I hung onto him and gave him to a well-deserving kid to do Childrens Hunters with for a year, and then I kicked him out to pasture and have been writing monthly retirement checks for 7 years.

The horse was clearly finished on my watch, and so I retired him. I don’t see myself owning anything aged in the future, my interest is in Greenie Development . . . they will be sold, and I will probably cry when each one departs with great hope for happiness in their lives . . . should I be the one to take him back 15 years when his career is done?

There is no simple answer to this. Most of us that are heavily involved in the industry will own far more horses than we could ever afford to retire in our lifetimes. Most good professionals I know do have a Mr. Ancient hanging out back . . . he was her So&So back in the day, carried her to stardom, etc . . . but with land disappearing and a ton of trainers renting facilities, sometimes by the stall, this is going to become more of an impossibility for them.

This is a fabulous thread, and nothing would be a greater tribute to this horse than to address this problem maturely and possibly devise a solution. Respect the perspectives, they hold the only real answers.

wow. this was long. 3 Cheers to my man Casey, 1986 16h American Thoroughbred Gelding!!!

#279

I find this situation analagous to a boxer, who was once a title winner, fighting lower class matches as he ages, then ending up as a security guard at Walmart.

And that’s a bad life? A WalMart security guard?

Granted- this horse looks shaggy and certainly not ready to go to a show. If it was say, a retired 4-H barrel racer in a Northern state in mid January that looked like that, would we be this upset?

The person that let him get this skinny is the only one responsible.

Exactly. We don’t know the circumstances the horse was sold under. Perhaps there was a promise of a grassy summer pasture and a loving home. Some horses just can’t handle “rougher” board and drop weight. Many people operate under the myth that you can’t keep weight on a TB. He was not sent to auction- in the end he recieved a good home. Would it be nice for his last owner to pitch in some money? Yes, but they may not. Such is life.

#280

Please don’t flame me, I haven’t been able to read ALL the posts but I do want to comment.
First, Tazer, good for you! Unbelievable story and you have a friend for life and if he was just showing last year who’s to say you won’t be able to bomb around in the summer and jump a couple logs. I think all that boy wants is love and attention…
As for blame, I think WE - the collective horse population - are all a little to blame for this. Sure, many of us who consider us “true” horseman can say, I would NEVER do that to my horse. But really, I pray every day to be able to afford my horses, but what if I died, would my husband, who knows NOTHING about horses be able to keep up. Sure he would try, but what. Then others have mentioned, sometimes sales are GOOD, I for sure wouldn’t have the opportunity to own the amazing horses I have now if EVERYONE was scared. Third, we all feed into the industry on way or another. Even if you have pleasure horses in your yard, you are part of the industry and everyone gets something different out of it and NOT EVERYONE sees the animals as more than a tool, a means to an end. So yes, it is sad, yes I think horses who give so much of themselves can get a bum deal but it isn’t worth pointing fingers. Instead, like others have said, ACT. If you can, be like Tazer and look to take one in. Try your best to buy ONLY horses you can properly care for and can afford to keep. Volunteer, Educate, Speak Up IF you see someone mistreating a horse. You will never save the world and you will never know what drives other people but let’s take the positive of this situation instead of getting angry and placing blame.
Finally, the thing that struck me the most about this thread. People who knew this horse and knew his character all vouge for his HEART. Maybe, just maybe it was that heart that actually SAVED him, sure he was on the path and had been deteriorating but now all that has changed so maybe HIS heart actually saved him. I am sure there are a dozen more who don’t end up that way but at least this one ends nicely and that should be the focus!
Enjoy your wonderful boy - I am balling!

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