In the Barn - tankless water heater vs. small water heater

[scrbear11]

New barn construction (shedrows)

The tack room is going to also be the grain room, it’s 12 x12. Space will be a little tight because, well, I’m a hoarder.

The hot water heater for the wash stall (tack room and wash stall share a wall) will have to go in the tack room since temps get well below freezing in Virginia. The tack room will be climate controlled. In thinking about space conservation, I would like to do a tankless water heater. But I have no idea what to look for; voltage, gallon per minute output… And in googling people had very mixed reviews.

Does anyone have any space saving recommendations? Or a tankless water heater that you love? Or maybe a small/low boy tank water heater?

Our house is new construction and we actually decided to go propane tankless there. But the house is too far from the barn to use the house propane hook up to run a barn propane heater, so we are looking electric for the barn.

[Cynical25]

Electric tankless water heaters require a LOT of energy. I wouldn’t even consider one unless it was gas/propane. I know 3 people who built homes & barns with electric tankless and all 3 converted to standard water heaters within the first year - one of those homes is mine.

[Bluey]

Here, people that try tankless in their houses give up after a while because we have such hard water, they keep malfunctioning, even with appropriate filters.

If you go propane, you can put your propane tank anywhere and run a line to your tankless.
Just be sure to put your tank where the delivery truck can get to it easily.

If you go electric, be sure you have the right kind of service for that in your main panel.
As others have pointed out, tankless electric heathers require a big draw.

[TheHorseMutterer]

I did a ton of research on this when installing mine relatively recently. I went with an electric standard water heater in the end. I don’t leave it on all the time, only heat it up when I’m planning on using it (convenient since it has it’s own breaker and I can just flip that to turn it on).

I read too many tankless horror stories to be comfortable with a tankless, though the on-demand, and endless hot water perks are still tugging at me.

I used the ground water temp estimate near me (or you can measure the temp yourself), how much I’d want to raise that temp for bathing the horses, how long I planned to run the water, and flow rate and came up with the fact that a tankless didn’t really meet my demands without going pretty hefty. Might be worth the same exercise for your barn!

[horsepoor]

We did a small water heater in my barn, so it took up less space – I think it is about 30 gallons. I had looked at the electric tankless at the time and was strongly discouraged by my builder not to go that route. The water heater is located in the climate controlled shop/tool room that is next to the wash rack. For years, that small size was just fine and I had no regrets, but now I kind of wish I’d gone full size. I never ran out of hot water until I got the haflinger with the ridiculously huge flaxen tail. A full bath for her that includes shampooing the tail will use up all the hot water, so I have to be strategic if I’m trying to do more than one horse on the same day. But I do have plenty of hot water for just hosing off all 3 horses if I need to do that.

[scrbear11]

Thank you for the great advice! Before I actually ordered anything. Regular tank water heater is the way we are going to have to go.

Sounds like I need at least a 30 gallon tank? I have four horses. Only one would get any sort of spot cleaning/bath in the winter. I do bathe frequently in the spring and summer and often bathe with luke warm water rather than straight from the well, freezing cold water.

[FitToBeTied]

Cnvverted from electric tankless to standard water heater.

[trubandloki]

@TheHorseMutterer

I used the ground water temp estimate near me (or you can measure the temp yourself), how much I’d want to raise that temp for bathing the horses, how long I planned to run the water, and flow rate and came up with the fact that a tankless didn’t really meet my demands without going pretty hefty. Might be worth the same exercise for your barn!

This is how you size a water heater. Great advice.
If you are going to measure your ground water to figure out your delta T do it in February or March. That is when it is the coldest. Measuring now would not give you an accurate number.

I am in NY, we assume for calculation purposes that the water will be 40degF during the coldest time of the year.

[4LeafCloverFarm]

This thread could not be more timely for me, as our 20+ year old propane water heater (in the house) has sprung a bit of a leak at the drain spigot. Two of the companies giving estimates recommended tankless water heaters, and I was just wondering if that was simply because they cost a lot more (and their company makes more on the sale/install) or if the “Well, everyone is going to tankless theses days.” speech they gave me was really true. So, I’m glad to see everyone’s real world feedback.

What I have learned is that the 30 & 40 gallon water heaters come in “tall” and “short”. The tall models are skinnier and take up less space.

[gumtree]

I first installed a tankless propane in a off-grid (solar panels, battery back up), cabin in the Mts of Colorado in the early 90s. Worked well for a couple of people taking a showers with low water pressure and for the sink hot water needs.

I would like to believe they have come a long way in almost 30 years. The cost of one is dictated by needs, water pressure, the temp of the incoming water etc. There are very good websites that will walk you through the “math” tp size the model to your needs. But I think you will find they are pretty pricey.

The electric models are limited on what they can do. Esp the 120 verse 220 volt models. The are mainly designed for point of use, like a sink that uses low flow water pressure. I think most horse people like pretty strong water pressure when it comes to washing horses. They can’t keep up with that demand. Esp if incoming water temps are in the 40s-50s. Though I was thinking, wondering if hooking up 2 in series would change things? First one boast it to around 60-70 and the second one up to 100++

If washing more than 1 horse in any given hour. I think a 30 gallon conventional water heater may/will run out and you’ll have to wait for it to recharge. I installed an 80 gallon electric tank. Insulated well and put a timer on it. Mechanical utility timers cost around $40+ and are easy to hook up. The majority of our use for 5-10 horses was in the mornings. It started heating water an hour before use. Shut off about a hour after our usual morning routine. Still held the water temps for needed for the rest of the day. So on average it was only heating water for 4-5 hours a day. The timer boxes have a switch to turn it on when needed. You can get additional on-off “switches” for a couple of $ to have multiple time periods if needed. Or spend big bucks for a digital programmable timer.

Propane heaters tend to be more economical than electric. Depends on the supply cost of each. If 220 is close and easy to run a wire. Electric water heaters are cheaper than gas. Very simple to hook up. Not that propane is that hard. In my area the propane supplier with a contract will do all the hook up for free.

That’s the basic long of things. IMO go with a conventional water heater for barn use. Don’t think you can get a timer for a gas heater? So you are heating, keeping water hot all the time. Verses an electric with a timer.

[Guilherme]

@4LeafCloverFarm

This thread could not be more timely for me, as our 20+ year old propane water heater (in the house) has sprung a bit of a leak at the drain spigot. Two of the companies giving estimates recommended tankless water heaters, and I was just wondering if that was simply because they cost a lot more (and their company makes more on the sale/install) or if the “Well, everyone is going to tankless theses days.” speech they gave me was really true. So, I’m glad to see everyone’s real world feedback.

What I have learned is that the 30 & 40 gallon water heaters come in “tall” and “short”. The tall models are skinnier and take up less space.

The big thing with tankless systems is the temp of water coming out of the ground. If you are in the South or Southwest where ground temps are higher then you might get away with an electric tankless system. But much further north than the Gulf Coast there will be issues with such. If you have natural gas available then that would be the way to go. Propane might be kind of pricey (I have propane heat and it’s pricey). Most folks are really not interested in a gas heater in a barn.

When I replaced a hot water heater a couple of years ago I spent a LOT of time researching the viability of certain types. The short answer was gas works about everywhere, electric in warm climates.

We visited friends just outside Tallahassee a couple of years ago and they had an electric tankless system in the house. We were instructed to maintain flow in the shower because if you fiddled with the hot water control it would shut off. You were then treated to a cold shower until it reset. Having been in the Navy I’m pretty conservative on water use. While shaving I’ll get water up to wash, then drain the sink, and use the razor. At home I turn the water off between rinses while using the razor. I did that and when I turned the hot water back on I got a blast of cold water. I had to let it run a few seconds to get the heater to kick on. It was an annoyance, and a waste of water, but it worked. Or I could just let it run.

Frankly, I’d not put in an electric system under any circumstances in the house and maybe not a gas system. But in a barn I might, as the water temp I need is not as high when washing horses and the cycling problem will not be so acute (at least on me). The cost savings might just be enough to make it work.

G.

[scrbear11]

@Bluey

You can see our water heater here, neatly tucked in a corner of the feed, supply room.
If I remember correctly, it is a 40 gallon?
I think you won’t lose much storage room once you get certain size circumference.
They just get taller for a little more water storage.

Some days we train and wash one, at times two horses at the time and bathe 6-8 horses in a day and have not yet run out of warm water.
Now, we don’t run the cold/hot mixture very warm, more lukewarm.
We also at the same time rinse saddle pads, boots and other kinds of leg protection you can see hanging there:

THANK YOU! Photos were so helpful. I think I’m just going to have to set up the tack/feed room efficiently and maximize storage space with tons of shelving, while having the water heater in the corner. It’s hard to see the picture with how much backroom and previous rental tack room was set up. Both have cabinets in them which really, in my opinion, take up a lot of useless space.

[Bluey]

@scrbear11

THANK YOU! Photos were so helpful. I think I’m just going to have to set up the tack/feed room efficiently and maximize storage space with tons of shelving, while having the water heater in the corner. It’s hard to see the picture with how much backroom and previous rental tack room was set up. Both have cabinets in them which really, in my opinion, take up a lot of useless space.

We decided not to put shelves, but the kind of portable shelving you get a Home Depot/Lowes that we can move around as needed.
Works better for us.
We put any sacks by the door, so it is easy to unload and feed from, other supplies further back in there.

[DoubleDown]

I just finished my barn last fall. I have a small 20-30 gallon tank, and my plumber actually put it on top of my tack room, with the lines coming down into the tack/feed room, then spigot on the outside. Takes up 0 space, and is a great size for my small 3 horse barn. It’s just me, so even if I wanted to do all three in a day, there is time for it to reheat between baths, especially if I don’t use super warm water.

[jawa]

My husband’s office went with a small, electric, water heater. The ceiling height was such that the water heater basically fit on a shelf in a closet, so wasn’t taking up much space.

At home and at the barn, we have propane tankless heaters. We have hard water. We get our heaters serviced every year ( they run vinegar through them to break up the hard water deposits). The barn tankless heater is an exterior model. They say it is rated to with stand FREEZING temperatures. We will see!

[YankeeLawyer]

We have a tankless propane heater in a ski house in Utah; works perfectly. We plan to install an electric tankless heater in our barn in Virginia. I have heard mixed things about the electric ones but for our purposes (private barn, 4 horses) I think it will be more than adequate. At our prior farm, we had a 50 gallon water heater. That worked very well but it was not particularly attractive (we built a closet for it) and it took up some space in the tack room. It also cost quite a bit to run because it was on all the time.

[TMares]

The only thing to watch with electric tankless water heaters is that they require a LOT of power. Size your panel and breakers and such accordingly.

[Palm_Beach]

FWIW, I love my propane portable water heater. I don’t have a wash stall, so I have to use it in my outside wash rack area. It’s on a cart that I wheel out, only takes a minute to hook it up. I do not use it at all from probably December through mid March due to the cold, and somehow have managed to survive 20 years with only cold water to scrub buckets etc. Anything that needs to get washed in hot water goes to the house. I don’t use hot water every day so no need for a hot water heater.

[trubandloki]

@Palm Beach

FWIW, I love my propane portable water heater.

What model do you have?

[Palm_Beach]

@trubandloki

What model do you have?

Insta Hot from Schneiders. I got the cart too, have my shampoo and sponge and scrapers and scrub brushes in the basket. I wheel it to my wash rack and do horses and anything else that needs a hot water scrub. Sometimes you have to turn the switch off and back on again if you have a lot of water pressure. If I had a wash stall, I’d probably have mounted it on the wall.

https://www.sstack.com/Stable-Essentials/Insta-Hot-Portable-Washing-System-w-Cart-Basket/