Indoor Arena Footing Question

[King_s_Ransom]

I think I already know the answer here, but wanted to check in because I am now getting conflicting recommendations.

As we get closer to making the final decisions on our indoor arena, I’ve had two different guys bid and make recommendations for the dirt work and arena footing.

One is significantly cheaper than the other, but upon further questioning, the cheaper bid is not an apples/oranges comparison.

The cheaper guy is not putting in a base of compacted, crushed stone, while the more expensive guy is putting in either 3 or 4 inches of compacted crushed stone as the base (I can’t remember if it was 3 or 4, it’s on his bid).

When I asked the cheaper guy about it, he said he would never put crushed rock in an arena because, “it will work its way up eventually.”

Everything I’ve ever read about arena footing calls for a base of compacted crushed rock.

HOWEVER, I’m told that our soil is pretty solid clay and should compact well and serve as a base.

Given this information – what should I do next?

While I want the footing to be right, I also do not want to throw money away.

The use is for light riding and adult human/horse interaction (unmounted). I won’t be jumping, no rodeo work, and no competitive dressage. It’s important that people be able to walk, so I don’t want the footing to be too deep. I also want to be able to keep down the dust.

The difference between the two bids is about $5,000; so it’s significant enough that I don’t want to just throw away $5,000 – but over the cost and life of the arena, certainly not a deal breaker (in other words, I am happy to spend the money to do it right).

Thoughts? Advice? Thanks!

[IPEsq]

For an indoor, you do not need crushed stone or gravel for the purposes of drainage that you would need outside. The question is whether the natural base, if compacted and leveled, would be a good base, which totally depends on your land. Maybe get bid/opinion #3?

[LadyBug]

There is crushed stone in the base of my arena covered by stone dust and it is, indeed, working it’s way up through my footing. I am constantly picking up rocks in my indoor.

[merrygoround]

When putting in an arena almost 20 years ago, we used the local coarse stone mix, I believe they called it T3, the stones were all 3" or less. We let that sit in the weather for a winter before the arena was started. Then it was leveled and 4" of crushed stone dust was put down, and compacted. So far we haven’t seen anything come up through. My final footing went on top of the compacted stone dust- about 4".

I’d check with the customers of both contractors. But remember the reason you are building the arena-so you will have good footing all year long-don’t skimp, no matter how tempting.

[myrna]

Our arena has a clay base with 2-3 inches of glacial sand.nike mix on top,

[Bluey]

Ours is our regular topsoil, put in in layers and watered down, packed and another layer added, for 2’ of it.

Then about 3-4" of double washed fine sand on top of it.
We have not had any of the top soil below get mixed with the sand.

We are roping and training for reining and working cowhorse, so it gets horses and cattle running in there.

It is holding very well and horses stay sound on it, unlike some cutting arenas, with deeper, coarser sand, that tends to grab horses and put more torque on their joints when they work at speed.

We went to our large event center everyone brags how well their horses do competing there, the ground is perfect and asked who put that in and is taking care of it.
That is who we used.

That company puts the footing in for different events, takes it out for others, they even have ice hockey games in there, right after a rodeo, then again some AQHA finals, then a big team penning or barrel races.

I expect you can find who has the best reputation for good footing and go ask them what they are doing?

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

I don’t know anyone with an indoor in my area who didn’t use compacted clay for the base. Outdoors are different.

That said, the one time I have experienced an issue is if the arena is very over-watered. I mean forgot to turn of the water wet. Wet clay is slippery and in canter work I hit the base turning and the horse almost wiped out. Thinking it was a fluke I kept going and it happened again. Not great. Shortly thereafter, the BO stopped watering altogether after adding mag chloride, and it wasn’t ever an issue again.

[FreshAir]

I think you will be ok. Just make sure he laser levels the clay base before adding a layer. My guy’s mistake was that they started the dump trucks dumping prior to the laser leveling. The guy with the laser level knew it was wrong and I didn’t have the nerve to tell the other guy to remove the dumped stuff so we ended up with a very deep end and a shallow end. Be a stickler, it is worth it even if they are cursing you out at night. FWIW, I am building a new barn now and the crew knows if it isn’t right, it is coming out for a redo. Once they get the message, it is all good.

[FreshAir]

Oh, since you will not have drainage in the form of a rock base, make sure you put the money into drainage around the building so it doesn’t get into your arena in the first place. We have drains running the length of the building that tip towards a catch basin that empties down the hill.

[2foals]

Personally I would go with the crushed rock. However, the crushed rock should not be DGA or 3" minus. Instead, it should be 1/4" minus, also known as “bluestone” or “class I sand” or by various other names depending on area.

The key is that none of the pieces of rock are larger than 1/4" in diameter, and that the crushed stone contains a lot of “fines” or smaller particles that will allow for excellent compaction.

If you use 3" minus, where the largest rocks are 3", the larger rocks will indeed eventually rise to the surface (might take a while depending on depth of whatever is over them) unless you install a layer of fabric over them or unless you are installing a highly specialized surface that involves putting mats and then footing over the gravel base.

I don’t have experience with using a clay base for an indoor arena. If you are going to go that route, I would strongly suggest talking to someone who has done that in your area. There is a lot to be learned from other people’s experiences, but options for arena bases and footings can be geographically specific.

[mellsmom]

footing

I think it depends greatly on where you live. I am going to put a pole barn over my outdoor this winter. I did 5 inches of limestone screenings topped with 2 inches of washed sand. The soil here is really strange and gets slick as snot in a second.

In VA my outdoor was packed red clay with manufactured sand on top.

If you don’t have a decent base, you will end up with uneven areas as the arena gets used. That said, i would NEVER EVER put down any stone of any kind. (not referring to stone dust) Even my stone dust has some small rocks that come up periodically. You do NOT wand to be dealing with stones all the time. If I had a good clay base I might do 2 inches of manufactured sand and ride in it for a while then add regular sand on top.
I am looking at different additives other than water for mine once I cover it, so I will report back how that goes!

Go pick the brains of the people in your area that you know who have indoor arenas and ask them what they did.

Indiana is full of small indoor arenas will unlevel dirt/crap footing. It is truly strange to me that someone would spend 70K on an indoor and just have a dirt floor.

[merrygoround]

Mellsmom- A good substitute for water in an arena is Mag Chlor. Sometimes it is hard to lay hands on. My BO just went through torture to get our yearly supply, and she started in August.

But it is animal safe, as far as legs and feet go. It keeps the arena from freezing in winter and pulls moisture from the air in summer so there is no dust.

[King_s_Ransom]

I am going this afternoon to talk to a guy who comes highly recommended. He may do our building instead of Morton. Everyone I talk to who has worked with him has nothing but glowing comments. Apparently, he is very horse savvy and I’ll see what he thinks about the base and footing.

I’ll report back what we decide. It’s getting closer!

[cherham]

Absolutely go with a clay base in an indoor arena. Compacted down and laser leveled at no degree of slope before ANY footing is added on top. We purchased a sand and geotextile fibre mix that we have had great success with. Our outdoor ring has 4 inches of compacted lime screenings with approx 4 inches of sand on top. It was professionally installed with a slight grade centre line to outer edges. Barely noticeable when riding on the surface but enough that the water drains away quickly. The outdoor ring is tile drained every 5 feet.

Footing is very expensive! But best to do it right the first time…

We also use Mag Chloride in the indoor arena, water on the outdoor.

[mellsmom]

Dust

Has anyone used the Hydro Keep additive? I am considering it for the indoor that we are building this winter. I am curious as to how well it works and how long it lasts? If you have it, do you water very often?

[King_s_Ransom]

I spoke to a guy who is a distributor for the Hydro Keep, extremely helpful and knowledgeable. In my specific case, he is recommending liquid Mag Chloride.

Our arena footing will be a mix of sand and soil. I got a real education from talking to this guy for almost an hour. Of course, the Hydro Keep is more expensive and I can source the liquid Mag Chloride locally, so he was talking himself out of a sale – which makes me think he’s pretty honest.

In my situation, as best I could understand and recall, the soil is going to be the 'binder" for the sand. He said I want to use the liquid because it will soak into the soil (he may have had a more technical explanation, but this was how I took it) and this will then prevent dust from aerosolizing. It will still kick up, but it will settle and not stay airborne.

I recommend you call and talk to the Hydro Keep folks and see what they say for your situation.

[BroncoMo]

[QUOTE=King’s Ransom;8984183]
I spoke to a guy who is a distributor for the Hydro Keep, extremely helpful and knowledgeable. In my specific case, he is recommending liquid Mag Chloride.

Our arena footing will be a mix of sand and soil. I got a real education from talking to this guy for almost an hour. Of course, the Hydro Keep is more expensive and I can source the liquid Mag Chloride locally, so he was talking himself out of a sale – which makes me think he’s pretty honest.

In my situation, as best I could understand and recall, the soil is going to be the 'binder" for the sand. He said I want to use the liquid because it will soak into the soil (he may have had a more technical explanation, but this was how I took it) and this will then prevent dust from aerosolizing. It will still kick up, but it will settle and not stay airborne.

I recommend you call and talk to the Hydro Keep folks and see what they say for your situation.[/QUOTE]

King what general part of the country are you? I’ve tried to keep up with your arena plan threads but I may have missed that part. I’m curious on how dry of a climate mag chloride works. And if liquid is recommended for certain climates over others. I worry that I might not have enough humidity for mag to work.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=FreshAir;8979294]
Oh, since you will not have drainage in the form of a rock base, make sure you put the money into drainage around the building so it doesn’t get into your arena in the first place. We have drains running the length of the building that tip towards a catch basin that empties down the hill.[/QUOTE]

Good advice. I don’t have an indoor so hesitate to comment on the original question, but practically every indoor I have ever ridden in has had some flooding problems - in several cases it was because of snow melt from snow sliding off the roof and then big piles melting all at once. They seemed pretty good all other times of the year but spring caused lots of problems, and I’m sure that a lot of them created bigger problems over time.

Anything you could do to minimize the drainage problems around the outside will probably be worth the cost.

[King_s_Ransom]

BroncoMo – I am in Kansas.

We are going with the fellow who recommended the compacted limestone screenings as a base, and with the Morton building. The other folks just seemed very “loosey-goosey” to me.

The fellow doing the compacted screenings has a good plan for the drainage around the building, this is why his bid is somewhat higher.

I’m getting very excited, though really a bit wigged-out over the costs. Nonetheless, it will be a dream come true and get lots of use!

[stoneymeadow]

Let’s talk footing!

[QUOTE=King’s Ransom;8984253]
BroncoMo – I am in Kansas.

We are going with the fellow who recommended the compacted limestone screenings as a base, and with the Morton building. The other folks just seemed very “loosey-goosey” to me.

The fellow doing the compacted screenings has a good plan for the drainage around the building, this is why his bid is somewhat higher.

I’m getting very excited, though really a bit wigged-out over the costs. Nonetheless, it will be a dream come true and get lots of use![/QUOTE]

Hi King’s Ransom

I am in the KC area. I had soil/sand footing when we owned a 50+ boarding facility w a large indoor arena. It was a daily maintenance item and not one I would ever repeat! We did it well but I do not miss it at all!!

I worked w Premiere Equestrian for my footing when I built my new facility. I am thrilled with it 4+ yrs later and am frequently told it is pretty much the best footing in the area. It is a GGT fiber w sand specifically selected by Premiere Equestrian to work best w the GGT. Then we use Mag Flakes sourced locally from Missy Mag in KC. Other than dragging regularly, my footing requires no water or any other maintenance.

Sounds like you are building a lovely arena. I’d be happy to talk footing. Or you are welcome to come see my footing before you commit to using soil. Given how carefully you are making decisions and what you are spending on your arena, the footing is pretty much the most important decision as it will make or break how much you enjoy it!!!

Good Luck!!