Indoor Arena Insurance, Etc.

[River_Maiden]

Needing some insight here, please, how do you insure your indoor arena? Do you carry replacement cost or? I do but my premiums have been raised to a staggering amount “again” and FF has removed such things as flood, though I am not in a flood plain anyway. I have never made any claims for any reason. I also have my home insured with them.

On top of my home and arena coverage I’m also paying $1,139. for “Horse Operations” that include “Lessons”, “Boarding”, “CCC”, “Clinics”, “Day Camp”. I don’t need year round camp and clinic coverage, only couple months. Do I need boarding insurance or is it covered by the liability? Is this crazy or am I just naive about how much these coverages cost? Seems like a lot. I feel like I’m being nickeled and dimed to death, though I don’t know which dime is for which item. I’ve questioned and was told once I didn’t have to stay with FF by my agent. I know, I know, I should have said “your right” and amscrayed to a different company. I’m told “Workers Comp”, I don’t employee anyone, small operation, is mandatory coverage though the policy says “Optional”. Nothing is individually priced, it is all under one price heading. Shouldn’t the cost of each coverage be spelled out? I’m not easily intimidated but need a better understanding of what is really needed in coverage and reasonable costs.

Can anyway shed some light please? I feel as though I am being choked and can’t get any viable answers from anybody at FF without an attitude.

Thanx

[Jim_in_PA]

The best resource for this is an insurance agency that specializes in equine and farm insurance.

And I wouldn’t carry anything less than replacement cost on any property insurance! That’s a recipe for potential financial disaster in the case of a partial or full loss…

[merrygoround]

Who does FF stand for? If it’s FF, I know the agents are usually FF employees. I have used them and found them extremely responsive, and helpful. CCC usually covers your liability for boarding, which is what Care Custody and Control is. If you truly have no employees, you don’t need WC, IIRC as long as those working there are related and living under the same roof. Lesson, and clinic and camp insurance is expensive, but you dare not go without.

You can PM me if you don’t want to publicly use the name of the company, and/or the agent. About which I’m really curious.

[BeeHoney]

Without knowing the specifics of your operation it is hard for me to comment too much on what you are paying. The $1139 sounds very reasonable to me but my opinion is not worth much without knowing what you are insuring.

My advice: schedule a meeting with your insurance agent (or their boss) to review your operation and what coverage you need and how much each thing costs. Also, don’t be afraid to take your policy to a competitor and get quotes for comparable coverage (or lesser, but more appropriate coverage). Sadly, nothing seems to inspire the best customer service from an insurance company better than the possibility of acquiring a new customer, but they lose interest in you once you have been a loyal customer.

From experience I don’t find it odd that your paperwork is difficult to decipher, but your agent should be able to explain your coverage in a very precise manner. As far as the workmans’ comp, usually that is based on payroll, so if you don’t have any employees, I’m wondering if they have it set up but aren’t charging you unless you do end up with actual payroll.

[CHT]

The way our liability insurance works, is we tell them our approximate revenue from each thing you do, and that is how they base our coverage…so the fact you only do some things for part of the year doesn’t matter.

It is hard to know if your fees for insurance are suitable or not, without knowing the size of your operation and the types of things you offer. Lesson horse lessons and shows seem to affect liability more than say clinics.

We have replacement value on our building rather than FMV. Yes, it does cost more, but not a crazy amount more. We also made sure we were covered for things that might affect us, like snow load, while we don’t worry about things like flood coverage as that would be very unlikely (our property is the second highest point in the county).

WCB doesn’t apply to barns in Alberta, so no idea about that.

[airhorse]

For all of that, $1139 is a bargain. We are getting quoted more than that for 22 days of clinics.

[River_Maiden]

OK, so cost of lessons, clinics, etc. sounds reasonable. They are insisting workman’s comp is mandated in the event I have someone cleaning my house, not happening, and they get hurt. Yes, my home policy is with them also. I do have replacement on the indoor and my house as well. My agent will be coming out. I have requested he come prepared with definitive information regarding coverage and costs for each line item this time. Hopefully this visit will go better.

[cherham]

Hey guys just a heads up make SURE you have adequate insurance coverage on your farm buildings. And read the fine print…farm and outbuildings are NOT the same “replacement” value as you have on your residence. Think worst case scenario…tornado…gone, wiped off the face of the earth. Hey did you know that if debris from a neighbours buildings land on your property YOUR insurance has to cover the cost of all of that clean up and removal? And that amount comes OFF the amount of the insurance you carry to rebuild your own buildings which could substantially reduce the amount you have left to rebuild. Without going into specifics (lawsuit pending) my advice is to please make sure you think of all the possibilities…no matter how remote.

[Nonsmom]

Not too many years ago, my old stand-by very sharp agent retired. He was replaced by someone I can only say instilled little confidence in me. As time went by and questions were not satisfactorily answered in a timely way, I contacted the next echelon up in FF, and requested a change. After a little grumbling and foot dragging, they complied.

I’ve been happy eve since.

[River_Maiden]

I ended up dealing with someone else in the office, not sure of her title but she was very patient and gave me a better understanding and answers. I can be a PITA with questions so I realize they may roll their eyes when they answer the phone and it’s me. I’m not looking forward to meeting up with this guy, I’ve already got a bad taste in my mouth so to speak from our last conversation. I will be looking into other agencies as well.

[Jealoushe]

Just some advice from an agent - the nicer and more patient you are, the nicer and more patient they will be. We deal with a lot of angry and unhappy people - no one likes paying for insurance. It’s the one thing we need that isn’t tangible so people always feel they are being ripped off. The agents don’t make a whole lot. The rates are where they are because of the high cost of claims these days.

If you are the one friendly person in their day, they will probably fight the hardest for you to get the best rate. Best of luck.

[Nonsmom]

Ah yes Jealoushe, but there are some people who don’t seem to have the wit to be agents. Having over the years, from an excellent company having had three agents, I speak from experience.

See post #9.

[IronwoodFarm]

[QUOTE=River Maiden;8122449]
Needing some insight here, please, how do you insure your indoor arena? Do you carry replacement cost or? I do but my premiums have been raised to a staggering amount “again” and FF has removed such things as flood, though I am not in a flood plain anyway. I have never made any claims for any reason. I also have my home insured with them.

On top of my home and arena coverage I’m also paying $1,139. for “Horse Operations” that include “Lessons”, “Boarding”, “CCC”, “Clinics”, “Day Camp”. I don’t need year round camp and clinic coverage, only couple months. Do I need boarding insurance or is it covered by the liability? Is this crazy or am I just naive about how much these coverages cost? Seems like a lot. I feel like I’m being nickeled and dimed to death, though I don’t know which dime is for which item. I’ve questioned and was told once I didn’t have to stay with FF by my agent. I know, I know, I should have said “your right” and amscrayed to a different company. I’m told “Workers Comp”, I don’t employee anyone, small operation, is mandatory coverage though the policy says “Optional”. Nothing is individually priced, it is all under one price heading. Shouldn’t the cost of each coverage be spelled out? I’m not easily intimidated but need a better understanding of what is really needed in coverage and reasonable costs.

Can anyway shed some light please? I feel as though I am being choked and can’t get any viable answers from anybody at FF without an attitude.

Thanx[/QUOTE]

In reading through this thread, I think the OP may have had some answers. I think it might be helpful to provide a general conceptual framework. In the realm of casualty coverage, there are two basic types of coverage: property and liability. Property covers your stuff; houses, cars, horses, whatever. Liability covers you if there is a loss to someone else, such as an injury or damage to their property. The type of coverage is further divided by what is personal and what is commercial. In many cases, the most practical and economical way to insure a home and a farm business is to purchase a package policy that provides property and liability coverage for multiple properties and risks.

FWIW, the exact coverages and premium calculation is detailed on the face page of the policy. If you have multiple coverage, this face page is going to rather long, because the coverage limits, deductible, and premium for each part must be listed. It is not nickel and diming. It is an insurance law and it allows the insured to adjust his/her policy and see the change in premium. You should be able to see this, not just one total price.

Please be aware the property and casualty insurance is sold on a one year basis. I only teach lessons from April to November, but I am insured so that if I go a day of great weather in January and taught, I have coverage. As others have said, premium is usually determined by revenues. Revenues tend to reflect the level of activities engage in.

I would be thrilled to have liability coverage for $1,139 that includes all that was cited. I pay about $2K for lessons, boarding and CCC. Of course, liability limits matter.

For personal reasons I insure my farm house and barn separately from the commercial business. However, if could do a package if I wished. My property coverage is another $2K a year.

Please don’t ever feel bad about asking questions about your insurance coverage. I have been licensed for years, but my area of expertise is in malpractice. I ask my agent lots of questions and look for ways to reduce the premium where it makes sense. I also pay my insurance premiums with the firm hope that I NEVER, EVER have to make a claim. A claim means something bad has happened.

If you are not happy with your agent, then you need to find another one. A good agent doesn’t just sell insurance, a good agent answers your questions, gets to know you and your business, and will offer you solutions for the risks you face. If you are not getting that from your agent, the switch to someone who help you really understand your insurance coverage.