Hi All, I am thinking of haviny my indoor arena footing redone.
Currently, it has rough cut sawdust sprayed with food grade mineral oil… it is nice footing, but dirty, and the price of oil is off the charts now. I was going to replace it w sand, but the arena guy told me sand won’t work over clay, and that I would need to put limestone screenings down first. He is building my outdoor, and doing a fabulous job.
I am wondering if anyone has experience w sand over clay. Thanks, fg
I don’t, sorry. I wouldn’t use sand because of the stress on soft tissue, and because it just super wears down feet like - well, like sand paper. Just my opinion. No more sand for my horse, sorry.
I would put down limestone screenings then another surface, such as shredded rubber or shredded leather or something which is fluffy and doesn’t break down easily but not sandy and not super compactable.
I’ve ridden in an outdoor with sand over clay in Canada. It’s not ideal, but it is workable. 1. You need to know the exact depth of your sand. 2. You need to have your harrows set just a little higher than that. 3. If it ever ends up raining inside, you’ll need to wait until it dries fairly thoroughly or you’ll end up wrecking your footing by mixing the sand down into the clay.
If you’re looking for a cheap option, it’s probably better than what you’ve got now as long as you go for well washed sand.
Have you looked into just adding sand to your wood chips and then using a different type of dust control?
In response to Ambitious Kate, I’d rather have feet that need a little attention than the busted ribs I got from the mould that shredded leather breeds. Rubber - also not great indoors for those with allergies and that goes for horses as well as people.
The right kind of sand, properly chosen and properly maintained is going to be fine for most horses.
[QUOTE=Ambitious Kate;7810288]
I don’t, sorry. I wouldn’t use sand because of the stress on soft tissue, and because it just super wears down feet like - well, like sand paper. Just my opinion. No more sand for my horse, sorry.[/QUOTE]
Where we board the indoor had an older shavings type footing removed and put in sand , and just like stated above it wears their feet down like sandpaper if they do not have shoes and in spots its dangerously too thick . But I have also ridden in a newly built indoor where they used a much softer less abrasive sand over a properly prepped base and it is really nice to ride on . So if it is done with the proper material it is good, wrong material and not prepped correctly it is really bad.
Hi Sascha,
Thanks for the reply. I wondered about adding sand to the wood chips. Have you ever seen/ridden on anything like that? I don’t know anyone who has.
Part of the reason I’d like to replace the wood is that it is really dirty. The footing is nice, but the oil makes it stick to lunge lines, gloves, shoe laces, legs, everything. It isn’t overoiled at all (and at the price of that food grade mineral oil it never will be) but it does stick to everything.
If sand and wood work well together with another type of dust control, I would think about taking the old footing out and adding unoiled wood w sand.
Thoughts?
fg
Thanks, too, to Tony. I think you posted while I was typing.
Yes, I have ridden in sand/wood mixture and it’s quite nice. It needs more maintenance than plain sand because the 2 components will separate and you’ll find you end up with a track quicker than normal - although maybe you’re used to that with plain wood chips anyway.
I think un-oiled wood is going to be an issue. As it breaks down, it will get quite dusty. I’m not sure anything but oil or brine (which is part oil and part salt water) will keep that dust down.
If it were mine to play with, I’d be tempted to add sand, add brine, and leave the original wood. This assumes that your clay base is still in good shape. One would think that adding more footing (sand) plus the brine (if it’s available in your area) might reduce the dirt factor by making the original oil have to spread itself a little thinner.
That’s all speculation though!
Around here, sand over clay is done all the time, indoors and outdoors.
My covered arena is sand over clay. The builder put down the clay, put down some sand and actually mixed it with the base so there was clay in the sand, then put more sand. It makes an orange arena (we have red clay here), but it works just fine, and the bit of clay mixed in with the sand helps it hold water and keeps the footing from getting too powdery.
I did eventually end up adding some rubber in because I have an older horse and wanted to make sure there was cushion regardless of water level in the footing, and I haven’t had any problems.
Most arenas around here are clay with sand footing. The problem my BO ran into (and it was bad) was when it was overwatered one time. The clay held the water forever and the sand dried. Cantering the horse, he and I thought the footing was good and turning he went through the dry sand and hit a bit of wet clay and almost wiped out. Happened every time on a circle. Yuck. Had to give the arena awhile to really dry out. Like a week or two. So the trick is to just wet the sand, not the clay.
This is good washed sand and it has spring. No one goes very deep…two inches absolute max. It has a good feel…not too deep. I’ve ridden in sand rubber (Nike) mix and that was nice too. That gal did a stone dust base over clay with the sand and Nike on top and had slipping issues at first…it was like the horse went through the sand and hit slick concrete.
I personally like GGT if money is no object.
I’ve also ridden in a wood chip/sand arena (over clay). Same issue with watering too much. Also, the wood can come across as slippery sometimes. Got some pretty interesting woodchips wedged into the foot against the shoes when jumping.
The least dusty is sand with calcium or mag chloride. If you do wood it will break down sooner than sand, but will also reduce watering. But if you do sand with mag/cal chloride, you will also greatly reduce watering. You will be replacing wood mix sooner. Agree on the feet…ridden in arenas that are a granite sand (It’s PINK! :)) and it is a great angular sand, but abrasive.
The gal with the sand woodchips replaced it with sand when she had money to do so, fwiw, but she used that mix for about 10 years (had to replace the woodchips before that). Is your base still in good shape?
yaya, that is interesting. Was the base naturally clay or did you truck it in?
Hi All,
Thanks for the suggestions. Sascha, horses do make a path pretty quickly in the wood, which is also something I’d like to get away from. I use a T-3 arena rake, and it really doesn’t do well with the wood. I love it…and I think it is more a reflection on the footing than the rake. fg
sand/wood is pretty common indoor arena footing at smaller barns in my area. The wood helps hold moisture and adds springyness.
I MUCH prefer riding in sand than hogfuel, always have and always will. I don’t find sand to affect my cob’s feet at all and he lives in a paddock that’s gravel with a bit of hogfuel at the back for a soft spot to roll. He also seems happier working on sand footing than hogfuel.
The most important thing with sand is getting the correct depth and keeping it harrowed to avid it packing hard and/or getting hoof-shaped holes that someone will inevitably step in and wipe out. Ask me how I know :lol:
The fancier barns in the area use sand/recycled sneaker footing in their indoor rings. I haven’t ridden in any of those rings, but walking across them feels like walking on hogfuel, but with better traction.
[QUOTE=TrotTrotPumpkn;7811758]
yaya, that is interesting. Was the base naturally clay or did you truck it in?[/QUOTE]
I’m on the top of what passes for a hill around here, so I would have had to dig pretty deep to get to the natural clay base. We just took off the topsoil and trucked in the clay from a neighbor’s dirt pit.
Lots of experienced comments above. This might also be helpful.
http://pubs.cas.psu.edu/freepubs/pdfs/ub038.pdf
The most important consideration for a material or composite material is the ability of the surface and subsurface to either retain moisture, wick moisture, and for outdoor arenas in particular, to drain water or all of the aforementioned. I’m sure you know this.
Materials (even in indoor areana) act differently in different regions based on geology and climate. Sand might be a good surface say in flat arid KS, but not so good in CO because of gradient, moist climate, and rocky sub-surface. But clay is heavier (in bulk) than sand but sand will have to be replaced more often as it is compacted into subsurface like clay. Pardon the pun, but the subject of equine surfaces is a quagmire of sorts. LOL Just before I completely retired, I managed a competition and schooling hunter jumper barn for a small college some years back and when sand was used in their indoor arena, maintenance was very labor intensive because it was either dust or compacted into the subsurface forcing frequent replacement. When raked, all that happened was the sand mixed with sub-soil and even a slight amount of mositure produced “mud.” Before I left, the riding director bit the bullet and went to a synthetic material. Good decision. This was an exclusive small women’s college that had big bucks so the change wasn’t all that devastating to their budget as it might be for small independent operations. I’m sure cost is a big consideration for you.
The UK has done the most study on arena and track surfaces, oddly enough. i’ve read a number of informative books published there. Go to a used book website and search “horse arena (or training or racing) surfaces.” Horseracing surfaces (I know they are outdoors) are somewhat similar subsurface construction and you might find some pertinent information, particularly as it relates to installation and maintenance.
The right choice of a material will save you long term maintenance, time, and costs, but you already know that.
These might be worth reading also.
http://dressagearena.net/images/Sand%20Specifications%20Booklet.pdf
Also, as you no doubt know and have commented on above, wood chips decompose quickly into what eventually becomes “mud” when moisture is applied.
We don’t have an arena at our farm, but I wish I had the money for an all-weather surface in our round pen. Good luck.
Thanks, Shammy. These are great resources.
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