I recently moved to a BNT barn after a few decades competing with smaller barns. I’m feeling a little stressed out about how many joints are being injected on my horse. I just want to do right by my horse and keep him as healthy and happy as possible for as long as possible. It would make me feel better if there are folks out there who have found that regular 1x-2x a year “maintenance” of hocks, coffins, etc., is key to keeping A-circuit horses competing happily for many years. Is this what those at the top of the sport do as routine business with all of their jumping horses, and I simply didn’t realize?
Does your horse seem happier and healthier after injections? My farm doesn’t have “set” injections that every horse that is showing gets. Yes, many of the horses get maintenance - but the program is determined according to each horse’s individual needs.
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Exactly the right question!
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Although many trainers view joint injections as “maintenance”, please do not forget that there are risks. After my horse ended up at Texas A&M for 2 weeks with a joint infection after an IRAP injection, I am a little more hesitant to inject joints.
That being said, one of my hunters did just get his hocks injected this week. He started swapping behind at times, which he never had done before. Vet agreed he needed his hocks done, as he was positive to flexions and there was some inflammation present.
I guess my point is, there should be a REASON for the injections. Injections should not be used as preventative that gets done 1x or 2x a year, whether they really need it or not.
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In a converstion/round table with a board surgeon a similiar question was brought up… … Coffin joints twice, Navicular bursa once and only once, Hocks maybe once a year but not more. Audience was not looking happy and questions changed. Kinda of curious as to where some of new treatments fit in.
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Are multiple injections the norm for A barns? In my experience, yes. I have not had experience with a program where most horses aren’t getting some type of injection, at least once a year.
That being said, I used to work with a vet who I felt like he was giving out injections willy nilly. Every time he’d look at my lease horse he would recommend multiple joints be injected- but could never really explain why. The horse was never lame, or even slightly off, and always flexed well. I stopped using that vet. Injections in the joint are NOT risk free, and I was not comfortable with that level of injections.
Currently, I have my boy’s hocks done 2 times a year. He has a grade 3 bone spur in the left hock, and some mild degenerative changes in the right. I also give him Pentosan injections. I find that that regimen works well for him, and keeps him feeling good.
I am all about keeping my horse comfortable, but you also have to consider the risks associated with such procedures. My 2 cents!
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Injections are a wonderful tool to have when you need them. I don’t like seeing “preventative” injections - meaning the horse is sound, flexes clean, shows no performance impairments - but gets injected anyway. I do like to see “maintenance” injections after appropriate diagnostics - meaning promptly addressing a symptom of discomfort (sticky change, less fluid canter, etc.) before the horse can compensate and create other issues. For some horses this becomes a routine schedule - but not because someone declared that every horse gets injected every 9 months - but rather because that individual horse starts showing symptoms of discomfort about that often after his injections.
IMHO, seeing a bunch of horses getting hocks injected doesn’t raise any flags for me so long as we’re talking about mostly horses with a decent amount of age/miles on them.
Seeing a whole barn injecting coffin joints raises more issues in my mind. Is there a farrier issue? Is there a footing issue? Do they routinely show on hard footing? Do they do less invasive maintenance - pack with Magic Cushion, put pads on up front?
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As long as your vet is cautious about going into a joint…i.e. Only do a block if you have to and only inject if other non invasive treatments have been done and there is still a problem. If your vet is the type to inject everything whilst trying to figure out what is wrong with a horse (I have met that type; I swear she had a self imposed joint injection quota to fill) get a new vet. I was taught you only go into a joint to do good and only if you have to.
My twenty year old Hunter has never had any joint injected. He has been on Adequan and now Pentosan since he was 10 or so. I do the loading dose and then Monthly shots. He also gets acupuncture a few times a year and massages.
As most have already said, I only inject when my horse shows me that he needs it. If I can keep him comfortable with his back on track hock boots and quickwraps I’m all for that but when my vet says we should really inject xxxx, I will do it. But that being said my vet is not one to just inject for the heck of it.
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It sounds like you are in a fullcare program and might just get a bill for the work that has been done? If you aren’t comfortable with that, I would sit down with the barn manager or your trainer or whoever runs the program and say that you would like more input into your horse’s vet care.
My 19 year old events at Training (3’3") and gets his hocks done once a year, with Pentosan every three weeks. Every year he gets a full lameness workup to see what my vet thinks he needs, and so far it’s just been hocks. I trust my vet and have a good working relationship with him. I would feel very uncomfortable with not being part of those decisions.
If you want more say in what joints get injected you should probably have that talk. As others have said, joint injections are not risk free, and if they are unnecessary they are a big waste of money at best.
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I have found that the norms vary hugely by barn and vet. I agree with other posters that you should do it for a reason and with a diagnosis. And not all joints are the same. I would be much more comfortable injecting hocks on a regular schedule than a higher motion joint.
What everyone else has said - I would inject only if there was a documented issue, we did flexions and radiographs, etc. I had a horse with arthritic hocks - showed up on his PPE at 9. He evented through preliminary and we injected when we needed to, which was on average about 18 months- 2 years. He was in full turnout wkth very good farrier care. I’d certainly make sure horse was managed appropriately if flexions, performance, and X-rays showed a problem…then you could determine whether injections might help.
Short answer- it depends on the horse.
My 24 year old and 17 year old both get hock injections once a year. Both have an expected amount of mild arthritis in their hocks. Neither are unsound without them but they’re both noticeably more comfortable with them. I don’t ride much or show at all in the winter so they only get them done in the spring when I’m bringing them back into show shape.
My 24 year old also gets his right front fetlock done. It was injured several years ago in a trailer accident. I never had much issue with it until then. X-rays shows a bit of degeneration and the beginning of fusing.
Why not contact your vet and ask about injections? I would never let a trainer make medical decisions about my horse without my consent. My trainer can recommend, but the decision is mine. I have never been with a trainer who does this.
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The last line of your post, OP, makes me think you may want to join with the following thread:
https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/hunter-jumper/9791206-why-do-people-jump-so-much/page3
It is always good to be concerned and proactive on the welfare of your horse, if your post is legit. I suspect, due to your ending sentence that it may not be and summer is once again upon COTH.
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I don’t find the questions to be “troll-y” at all. A higher end, large BNT barn will probably be more evolved in lots of ways vs. smaller, more local barns - including feed, supplements, equipment, specialty farrier, and training schedule. People are willing to spend more in the BNT programs. I think you got a great answer in the 2nd post by longtimelurker! How does your horse feel? I know that my mare has never looked or felt better since I stepped up her maintenance, which includes bi-annual exam by a vet I trust to see what might help. And all combined with great farrier, chiro, turnout, exercise, reasonable use of nsaids and supplements, etc.
If you see the trainer and his/her vet injecting every horse multiple times a year in a cookie-cutter fashion, then maybe that’s not the right program for your horse. But otherwise, I would not find it to be a red flag. How does the trainer act when you ask questions?
agree with everyone else… the nature of repetitive stress and a year 'round show career means horses in that program are likely to all end up on a regular schedule for hocks. But that regular schedule should still be specific to the individual horse and not cookie cutter. Still, if over half the barn’s horses need annual injections, I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see them timed just before their busiest show season. So it might look cookie cutter while not actually being cookie cutter.
To me, any work done on stifles, ankles and feet is very specific to the individual and it would be a red flag to see some wholesale injections done there…
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This. Though I will say some vets are more “injection happy” than others. It’s a judgment call, and if you poll 100 vets you’re going to get different responses. That’s life.
I have never been at a barn where every horses got injections just because. I have been at barns where, for show schedule reasons, most of the horses that DID need injections were getting them timed in a way to work with show season.
Hocks are not an uncommon injection for horses to need due to wear and tear. If a bunch of aged horses still out doing/showing are needing that, I wouldn’t be too worried.
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I have a 10 year old Hanovarian mare with pretty straight conformation in the hind end. She shows every month in the junior hunters. She had a problem with hyperextending her right stifle twice. She has had her stifle injected every other year for 5 years. Truth be told, the right one is probably the only one that needs it, but I like symmetry and all that so we do the left too. She gets her hocks done usually 2x a year, but really only when it looks like she is starting to be stiffer behind. We just got her coffin joints injected this spring. I was hesitant to do so because it seemed unnecessary since the mare wins or gets second in about every under saddle she’s in so it didn’t seem to me that she was uncomfortable. Unfortunately, you can’t discern the level of inflammation until you have already stuck a needle in the joint and at that point you may as well do something since you’re there. Both synovial sacks in her coffin joints were highly inflammed. After her rest period, the change in the mare was astonishing…she had never been lame, but she clearly had never been as good as she could have been. Her step got HUGE and her jump became incredible because it no longer hurt to land. I hugged her and told her I was sorry for waiting.
So if your horse needs the work, it seems reasonable. If you don’t see any change in comfort or performance, I would question the purpose. And absolutely supplement with an IM injection like Pentosan or Adequan to get the most out of the pricier joint injections.
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There is no such thing as injecting a horse because it is “maintenance”.
Either they need the injections to be sound and train/compete, or they do not.
If they do not, then do not inject.
Would you start taking high blood pressure medication to “maintain” your current normal blood pressure? Of course not. That would be absurd. So it baffles me when folks talk about injections at “maintenance”.
Inject if the horse actually needs it. Don’t if they don’t.
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