Input on bitting?

[Lifting_Chickk]

The horse has been strong so far this season in her Flexi-mullen Pelham, which is usually our go-to bit for foxhunting. I’m on the cusp of trying something else, and would like to hear what others would do/have done to get a horses attention when they begin to tune out their usual bit. Here are some ideas that I’ve had:

Change the mouthpiece but stay with a pelham. Try a double jointed mouth, or maybe even a waterford…

Ditch the pelham, add a bradoon hanger and hunt in a full bridle.

Add a martingale to the snaffle rein of my current bit (although she doesn’t toss her head, when she gets strong she does poke her nose out. Not sure if a martingale would help with that or not.)

What do you all think? We’ve been out a handfull of times so far and she’s been a machine. Anyone want to toss around some ideas with me?

[tangledweb]

I like pelhams for hunting, but I’m not sure I get the point of a mullen mouth pelham. A jointed pelham is going to be significantly stronger and harder to ignore. I’d generally put a jointed pelham on a horse that raises its head to run through the bit or a 3-ring gag on a horse that curls its head down to evade the bit.

I see a lot of running gags on hunt horses around here so they must be effective, but they are not my bit of choice.

[Lifting_Chickk]

Thanks for your input, tangledweb! I ride her in a plastic mullen because she has a strong aversion to metal touching her front teeth when I put the bridle on/take it off. I don’t like the flimsy appearance of the jointed happy mouth bits…

But, I do realize the mullen is easy for her to blow through, even with the curb, and that’s why my first idea was to stay with the pelham and change up the mouth. I used to have a KK Ultra pelham that worked well, but I sold it because it was a beast to keep polished!

She definitely doesn’t curl as an evasion and I don’t think I’d be safe giving up my curb if I went with a gag. So, a jointed pelham seems like a good bit to go to. I appreciate your thoughts!

[ISR]

Couple of questions,

Where are you in the field? Does she get strong just at gallops, or other times as well? How many times per week is she ridden (and hunted?).

I just switched to a Myler ported mouth piece with hooks, and i’m in love! Simple half halts when I feel her getting a little “up” or a little close to the horse in front seems to be sufficient so that i’m not yanking after the problem (of losing attention!) has already started!

Good luck sourcing the waterford pelham! They don’t seem to be available state side for less than $150 (I was on a quest with a friend to find one for her freight train)! You can buy them off ebay.co.uk for considerably less even factoring in postage.

[howardh]

[QUOTE=ISR;7169436]
Couple of questions,

Where are you in the field? Does she get strong just at gallops, or other times as well? How many times per week is she ridden (and hunted?).

I just switched to a Myler ported mouth piece with hooks, and i’m in love! Simple half halts when I feel her getting a little “up” or a little close to the horse in front seems to be sufficient so that i’m not yanking after the problem (of loosing attention!) has already started!

Good luck sourcing the waterford pelham! They don’t seem to be available state side for less than $150 (I was on a quest with a friend to find one for her freight train)! You can buy them off ebay.co.uk for considerably less even factoring in postage.[/QUOTE]

I agree go with a ported bit for tongue relief OR rent a Myler combo with a port. Great bit

[Lifting_Chickk]

[QUOTE=ISR;7169436]
Couple of questions,

Where are you in the field? Second field, behind the master.Does she get strong just at gallops, or other times as well?Just the gallops, the rest of the time she’s easily controllable. How many times per week is she ridden (and hunted?). She’s hunted only once a week with the occasional twice if I can get a Wednesday off from work. She’s ridden 3 days a week on average.

I just switched to a Myler ported mouth piece with hooks, and i’m in love! Simple half halts when I feel her getting a little “up” or a little close to the horse in front seems to be sufficient so that i’m not yanking after the problem (of loosing attention!) has already started!

Good luck sourcing the waterford pelham! They don’t seem to be available state side for less than $150 (I was on a quest with a friend to find one for her freight train)! You can buy them off ebay.co.uk for considerably less even factoring in postage. That’s where I found one! :)[/QUOTE]

She’s not a hot horse at all really. This is one that you can ride once a month and the only thing that would suffer is her fittness. She just really gets into the gallops and can be too “in the zone” to hear me if I think we need to check it a bit to avoid passing the field master, balance up for poor footing/terrain, etc.

Her place in the field has been behind the 2nd field master for a few years now. At the last hunt, we got hung up at a big jump and circled around to the back, riding in the back of 2nd field across a 20 acre polo field. Oh holy crap was she mad! She really took the bit and ran. I was able to hold her, but it took more force than I care to put into my reins so it got me thinking about switching up her bit a little for when I need that extra “hello, you still have a rider” reminder.

[Lifting_Chickk]

[QUOTE=howardh;7169445]
I agree go with a ported bit for tongue relief OR rent a Myler combo with a port. Great bit[/QUOTE]

I’ve thought about the ported Myler Pelham and will be keeping my eyes out for one to try (used). I had a Myler Combo bit with a port and she hated it; not the mouth piece, but the nose pressure. So I’d probably steer clear of the combo bit, but would definitely consider the Pelham with the ported barrel mouth.

[Lifting_Chickk]

Just a little update. After some thought, I’ve come to the conclusion that she’s objecting to the tongue pressure of the mullen mouth. I’m going to try a Hartwell mouth Pelham and see if that makes a difference for her. I think the low sweeping port should do the trick. Will hunt in it this Saturday and be back to let anyone curious know how it goes.

[tdomino2]

Wondering how you liked the Hartwell? I was thinking of trying one, too. I had tried a plain mullen mouth pelham on my gelding but I could tell he wasn’t thrilled with it. Currently going in a low port Kimberwicke which he likes tons better than the pelham, but I would like to have a snaffle rein.

I just don’t buy into jointed pelhams/Kimberwickes. How can they rotate to engage the curb if, when you apply the curb rein, the mouthpiece breaks instead?

[gypsymare]

Odd… my guy is the opposite. He acts like a mullen mouth is severe. We hunted in a simple, single jointed snaffle but he got too heavy (curls and leans) then tried a 3 ring elevator. No difference. Tried a mullen mouth pelham and even the snaffle rein backed him off too much and made him nervous. I have a Stubben EZ Control D on order to try. Looks like a snaffle with a bean, supposedly works like a mullen mouth and doesn’t fold when both reins are applied, moves sides independently with only one rein.

[Feliz]

gypsymare - my hunter spent last season in the EZ loose ring (a friend loaned it to me). It was perfect, he was just a bit too strong in a plain snaffle, the EZ just gave me a little more while he stayed happy in it.

I’ve now bought the D ring version but haven’t used it yet.

[gypsymare]

[QUOTE=Feliz;7196175]
gypsymare - my hunter spent last season in the EZ loose ring (a friend loaned it to me). It was perfect, he was just a bit too strong in a plain snaffle, the EZ just gave me a little more while he stayed happy in it.

I’ve now bought the D ring version but haven’t used it yet.[/QUOTE]

I’m glad to hear it! I’m hoping it will give me just a hair more control without making him anxious. I went back and forth between the D and the loose ring for awhile until finally settling on the D because of the slimmer bars.

[BellaLuna]

I was using a gag and hated it. He would curl and I just don’t like that feeling. So I took a deep breath and tried my everyday Stubben EZ control loose ring. What a difference. He was so much happier. I’m hoping the honeymoon doesn’t wear off.

[Foxtrot_s]

I think a ported bit might be good…I had a mare who the more you bitted her up the angrier she got…galloped along with her head between her knees, shaking it all the time.

I had one large 17.2 hh TB who went well in a gag snaffle - one reef on the first run and he slipped along beautifully after that, but I had it for the rest of the hunt as insurance.

But, since your horse pokes her nose out, I had a Standardbred like that - while marvellous horse, she was strong. I used a Kineton noseband with her and it worked like a charm, taking the pressure off her mouth.

[SLW]

[QUOTE=tdomino2;7196027]
Wondering how you liked the Hartwell? I was thinking of trying one, too. I had tried a plain mullen mouth pelham on my gelding but I could tell he wasn’t thrilled with it. Currently going in a low port Kimberwicke which he likes tons better than the pelham, but I would like to have a snaffle rein.

I just don’t buy into jointed pelhams/Kimberwickes. How can they rotate to engage the curb if, when you apply the curb rein, the mouthpiece breaks instead?[/QUOTE]

I go by what the horse tells me, to hell with the textbooks. My semi-retired mare hates anything “fixed” on a bit- the shank, mouthpiece or where the mouthpiece attaches to the ring she will toss her head and shake the entire time. No bueno. Put in any bit that wiggles and moves at every attachment (and violates every logical way of thinking bit action) and you have a happy camper.

Off to google a Hartwell bit. That is a new one for me.

[Foxtrot_s]

That is true - some horses go in bits that defy logic. A key to every mouth, as they say.

I used to be told that all a good horseman needs is a snaffle - and I have a tack room full of them, but now I think that a single jointed snaffle is one horses like least - I now only use a snaffle with a lozenge in the middle…
or a Nathe, softer being better for the most part. Hunting - different story.

[Feliz]

Foxtrot - I’ve been leaning away from single jointed snaffles - but my current horse is telling me otherwise. He’s happiest in a big, super fat, single joint eggbut snaffle. Is fine in the jointed EZ control, but takes the contact and salivates much better in the eggbut. I’ve tried various things on him, thought he’d like a lozenge in the middle, but that’s his favourite (at the moment, there’s a few more I’m waiting to get my hands on).

[Corky]

Thought I’d bring this thread back up rather then start a new one.

Looking for bit suggestions for a client’s mare that is a train. She’s about 3 seasons in, totally safe but just too strong. Primary problem is that she locks up and bears down. I rode her last weekend and found the only way to get her out of it was to take her head to one side or the other or to keep her bent. As soon as she’s straight she just locks up there and she’ll half halt off body, but the moment you relax she just barrels forward again. I rode her in a mullen pelham with double reins and fairly long shank. We’ve tried three-rings, waterfords and a triple barrel myler in the past with no real success once out hunting. The mare doesn’t run away or anything, but she’s literally like trying to hold a train back on quiet days, hound walks etc. My shoulders hurt but my ankle got so bad I could hardly put weight on it by the end of the ride. Ouch!

We have a few western riders in the barn with some pretty substantial hardware we could borrow to try, but I’m concerned that something long shank and strong mouthpiece will only curl her up and not address the ‘locked up’ feeling. I have a double twisted wire full cheek I could try, and I have a fast-twist Dee with slots for cheek pieces and reins that I could try too. Otherwise she’s about exhausted my bit collection. We’ve just begun to introduce a double bridle in dressage at home but I don’t think it would be enough either for hunting since my curb bits are all pretty mild.

Anyone have a similar puller that can offer suggestions on what to try?

Thanks

[CindyCRNA]

[QUOTE=Corky;7534143]
Thought I’d bring this thread back up rather then start a new one.

Looking for bit suggestions for a client’s mare that is a train. She’s about 3 seasons in, totally safe but just too strong. Primary problem is that she locks up and bears down. I rode her last weekend and found the only way to get her out of it was to take her head to one side or the other or to keep her bent. As soon as she’s straight she just locks up there and she’ll half halt off body, but the moment you relax she just barrels forward again. I rode her in a mullen pelham with double reins and fairly long shank. We’ve tried three-rings, waterfords and a triple barrel myler in the past with no real success once out hunting. The mare doesn’t run away or anything, but she’s literally like trying to hold a train back on quiet days, hound walks etc. My shoulders hurt but my ankle got so bad I could hardly put weight on it by the end of the ride. Ouch!

We have a few western riders in the barn with some pretty substantial hardware we could borrow to try, but I’m concerned that something long shank and strong mouthpiece will only curl her up and not address the ‘locked up’ feeling. I have a double twisted wire full cheek I could try, and I have a fast-twist Dee with slots for cheek pieces and reins that I could try too. Otherwise she’s about exhausted my bit collection. We’ve just begun to introduce a double bridle in dressage at home but I don’t think it would be enough either for hunting since my curb bits are all pretty mild.

Anyone have a similar puller that can offer suggestions on what to try?

Thanks[/QUOTE]

This describes my 17.2, 1400 lb freight train. We are using a 3 ring elevator (double jointed), tried it on the middle ring, the bottom ring (she didn’t stop pulling and tossed her head the whole time), tried a chain and the reins on the middle ring, really the only thing that works is my brute strength! She is strong in the dressage ring (we are in the baby division), moderately strong on a cross country course. We need work on manners. As for help in your bit, I am going to try a Kineton Noseband. I have heard good things.

[Huntin_Pony]

Corky:

Since you appear to be in Canada rather than Australia or New Zealand, I am guessing that it is off-season for hunting now. I think a big part of the solution is flatwork, dare I say dressage(?), when you’re not hunting.

The horse needs to be able to gallop (or trot) with her head/shoulders up and her butt underneath her. Think about exercises to develop the top line - suppling exercises, transitions between/within gaits, mild lateral work, SLOW hill work - and then when she can carry herself, think collecting exercises. Once she’s able to carry herself and collect a little, then ride her that way over terrain so that it becomes a habit for her. It IS actually easier on the horse but you may have to show her that it is.

Here’s the requisite caveat - be sure it’s not something physical that’s keeping her from raising her back and getting her butt under.

Have fun!!