Ins and outs of taking horse on trial- New question 7th post

[chebeau]

Greetings,

We have been offered a 3-4 week trial on one of the horses we are considering purchasing. While it would give me a chance to see how he is away from home and provide time for my trainer and I to spend with him, my husband is uneasy just taking another person’s horse on our property with our two horses. Note they can stay in separate fields with access to the barn run-in without being directly together.

What things do I need to consider when taking a horse on trial? Logistics, legally, etc. The seller says she can just drop him off with no money exchanged unless I decide to keep him. This seems a little looser than we feel comfortable. Also, we could have him vetted during that time.

He is a sweet grade paint gelding with some real potential to do what I want. He is not the only horse we are considering, but he is well priced and having a trial is appealing.

All advice with taking a horse on trial is appreciated.

Happy riding,
Jessie

[S1969]

I would suggest that you lease the horse for a month and use a lease agreement that is common in your state. Even if no money exchanges hands it should clarify who is responsible for the care in the event of an injury or emergency; whether or not the horse is insured, etc…as well as the conditions for sale if you choose to buy; and any conditions if you choose not to buy.

The mare I bought was loaned on trial to a boarding barn where (as far as I know) there had been good relationships between the two trainers. I think it is pretty unusual for an owner to allow you to take a horse on trial to a private property…I would never allow it.

[PNWjumper]

As a seller, if I do a trial, I require an insurance binder on the horse to protect the potential buyer and to protect myself. Most insurance companies will do a free binder if you continue on to a policy (or at least that’s how it worked the last time I was involved in helping the buyer with the process, though that was a few years ago).

Regardless of what side of the transaction I was on, I would also want a detailed contract spelling out every part of it. I use a contract from Equine Legal Solutions (www.equinelegalsolutions.com).

I have done things less rigidly a few times over the years and had it work out just fine, but I’ve seen several of my friends get absolutely hosed in a variety of ways as buyers and sellers.

[chebeau]

Thanks for the input so far and places to look for contracts. This puts my husband’s mind at ease. We did find it unusual for a trial to be offered at our mini farm, but this lady has her horses at home as well so that may be why she is okay with it.

Happy riding,
Jessie

[Bluey]

Very important that you put all that has been discussed in writing, so there are no questions later what each side thought or expected out of the trial period.

[Scribbler]

Most importantly you want to make sure you can give the horse back if you don’t want him! That would be my red flag if a seller was this loosey-goosey! Maybe she will just dump him on you. Also you want an agreement in writing about what happens if he goes unsound, gets injured, dies, or picks up new bad habits owner says he didn’t have before.

[chebeau]

So the gelding we took in October failed his PPE miserably and went back to his home.

We have another mare we are considering bringing on trial. The seller wants a non-refundable deposit. Is that normal practice? If we did not get her, our out of pocket costs (shipping both ways, PPE, and non-refundable deposit) for a two week trial would be ridiculous.

So my other questions are:

Do you vet them before having them on trial? I have mixed feelings on which way to do this.

When is price negotiated–before the trial or during the trial period?

All info is appreciated. Thanks so much.

Happy riding,
Jessie

[Bogie]

@chebeau

So the gelding we took in October failed his PPE miserably and went back to his home.

We have another mare we are considering bringing on trial. The seller wants a non-refundable deposit. Is that normal practice? If we did not get her, our out of pocket costs (shipping both ways, PPE, and non-refundable deposit) for a two week trial would be ridiculous.

So my other questions are:

Do you vet them before having them on trial? I have mixed feelings on which way to do this.

When is price negotiated–before the trial or during the trial period?

All info is appreciated. Thanks so much.

Happy riding,
Jessie

I do not sell a lot of horses, but I sold one mare that i allowed go on a 1 week trial. I had my vet come and do a basic PPE on her (not films) so that we all agreed that the mare was sound when she left my barn. They had an insurance binder and an appointment with their own vet to do a final PPE within the trial period. Price was negotiated in advance. PPE didn’t find any issues so paid me at that time.

I did ask for a non refundable deposit because the horse was off the market. Not a huge amount, but enough to discourage a frivolous trial. I trailered the mare myself as it was about a half hour away, so no shipping fees.

[Libby2563]

@chebeau

We have another mare we are considering bringing on trial. The seller wants a non-refundable deposit. Is that normal practice? If we did not get her, our out of pocket costs (shipping both ways, PPE, and non-refundable deposit) for a two week trial would be ridiculous.

So first of all, I think you have to let go of the idea that the PPE and shipping to you are bundled in with the cost of the trial. You would be incurring those anyway with an outright purchase.

A nonrefundable deposit does not seem unreasonable to me since the seller is accepting many risks and losing the ability to show the horse for that time. (Of course, without knowing the amount of the deposit and the value of the horse, it’s hard to say if it’s a fair amount.)

I think what I would do is ask myself if I feel confident enough about the horse that I would vet her now if the trial weren’t an option. If not, I would likely decline the trial and the horse rather than risk incurring costs that I think are “ridiculous” in the case of a no-sale.

As far as whether to do the PPE before or during the trial, for me that would depend on the expected cost of the PPE vs. the cost of the deposit plus shipping. I would also consider factors like which vet I could use at seller’s location vs. home and whether I could be there if it were done near the seller.

[S1969]

@chebeau

So the gelding we took in October failed his PPE miserably and went back to his home.

We have another mare we are considering bringing on trial. The seller wants a non-refundable deposit. Is that normal practice? If we did not get her, our out of pocket costs (shipping both ways, PPE, and non-refundable deposit) for a two week trial would be ridiculous.

So my other questions are:

Do you vet them before having them on trial? I have mixed feelings on which way to do this.

When is price negotiated–before the trial or during the trial period?

All info is appreciated. Thanks so much.

Happy riding,
Jessie

Well, that’s probably what I would do if it was my horse also. Pre-purchase trials are not common; I’m not letting someone take my horse, possibly treat it badly or injure it, and then give it back without making them pay.

In this case you should want to buy this horse now. The trial is just a last chance to get out of the sale if something truly unexpected happens - and yes, it will cost you money because it is designed to discourage you from tire kicking or just getting a few free rides. If you don’t want to buy the horse now, it’s not worth taking on trial.

I would proceed as if you are buying the horse now - PPE, price negotiation, and then trial.

[NJRider]

100% what S1969 said. It is very uncommon to permit a horse to go out of the area on trial. You have to wonder about WHY- may be the seller knows of an issue and is banking on a buyer, after investing in time, shipping etc to just go ahead and buy the horse.

[ShotenStar]

I’ve brought horses home prior to completing the purchase because I wanted my vet to do the PPE. I negotiated a very specific contract with each seller. The pages stated the exact terms of how long the horse would be in my hands, what condition the horse was in when loaded onto my trailer at the seller’s farm, what would happen if the PPE was not satisfactory, what would happen if the PPE was good and I wanted to go ahead with completing the purchase, and what would happen if the horse was injured while in my care. In each case, I left the seller with a check for the full, agreed upon purchase price. Since I was looking at horses priced less than $10,000, insurance was not one of the factors - I could afford to pay that amount if the horse died or was seriously injured while in my care.

The key thing for me was the negotiation with each seller. Everything was discussed in advance, was put in writing, and was signed and witnessed. I’ve had slight trouble with only one seller, where the horse failed the PPE and the seller wanted a copy of the vet’s report. Since there was no written report, only my in person discussions with my vet, I could not satisfy her request. It took a bit to get this concept through to her.

star

[chebeau]

Thanks for all the wonderful input. After thinking on it, I relayed to the seller I would like to do a PPE before we consider bringing in for a trial or just outright purchasing her. The biggest reason we would not get her is not passing the PPE. Plus, the cost of the PPE is far less than shipping and deposit. In hindsight, I would have vetted the gelding we took on trial first before considering a trial. Keeps the waters from being muddied by emotions.

Currently, I am waiting to hear back from her about this as the little mare checks lots of my boxes for what I am wanting at the moment.

Hopefully I will hear something soon. Again, the perspectives and experiences are much appreciated.

Happy riding,
Jessie

[CHT]

I agree with your decision to do the PPE first: it can save a lot of heart break.

I think the non-refundable deposit is smart: it ensures you are serious about wanting the horse, while giving you a bit of a safety net before buying. Think about more as a partial refund if things don’t work out, rather than a trial.

[polkadotedpony]

I agree with doing the PPE first. Why waste your shipping money and risk getting attached to a fundamentally unsound horse? I currently have a horse on trial and we essentially purchased the horse in full but have a clause in the contract saying he can be returned within the first 30 days for a full refund if he is deemed to be unsuitable for our needs. There are also limitations on what can be done with the horas during the trial period (no clipping, can’t go off property except for emergency). It’s a little painful to part with the money but trials are a big risk for the seller, not only could the horse have an accident, but you could also straight up disappear with the horse so in the end we felt this was the fairest way to go. Whether you get insurance really depends on the price of the horse and if you can afford to eat it should there be a freak accident.

[HungarianHippo]

I’d look at the cost of a basic hotel in the area where the horse is, and spend a few days. I bet it’d be way cheaper than shipping and deposit. This way you could get several rides, go out on a trail, walk over a tarp, groom, handwalk, bathe, watch how he fits in with the other horses there and how he behaves with farm workers, etc. If the current owner is willing to let him go offsite, I bet she’d be willing to allow this.

It’s not as if ANY horse will be completely normal when first taken from its home farm, so the 1wk offsite trial will not really show you who he is anyway. Add in all that risk of injury, etc, and I just don’t think it’s worth it.

[Guilherme]

I’m not a fan of “trials” when selling to non-professionals. I’ve done it, but only because I knew, well, the person who was taking the horse. I’ve had horses on trial, but only because the sellers knew us and trusted our care and judgement.

Do the PPE first as noted. That does two things: it determines if you even want to go forward AND is is a clear documentation of the condition of the horse before it leaves for trial.

Have a written contract that succinctly states what each party has to do. It doesn’t have to run pages but should clearly set out, at a minimum, the time of the trial, who pays for what, any insurance required*, who has to arrange transport, etc.

If the horse is going back I’d consider a mini-PPE by your vet that would also clearly state the condition of the horse when it leaves your place.

Non-refundable deposits are great for sellers if the market will bear them. When a horse goes out a trial it puts the seller is “limbo” until the buyer says “yes” or “no.” While seller’s expenses are less during this period of time it does represent a loss of time to the seller and “time is money.” It’s an item of negotiation between the parties.

Good luck in your program.

G.

*Remember that insurance covers only stated losses and often carries significant co-pay obligations. Get the right coverage.

[chebeau]

Thanks for all the input. The more I think about my previous experience with the trial (way too loosey goosey to be honest) I lean more toward not doing one due to all the varied risks presented. We are getting a PPE scheduled and making a decision from there. As always, COTH is a wealth of knowledge and experience.

Happy riding,
Jessie

[chebeau]

Well, hell the mare was a complete nut during the PPE that they could not do part of it. Fortunately, I was only charged a partial fee. The vet and her technician could not do anything with her hooves, mouth, or any part of the lameness portion.

Very disappointed…the mare obviously has issues not shared by the seller…good to know now than if I had her here on trial.

The search continues…

Happy riding!

[IronwoodFarm]

Sorry about the PPE news but glad you avoided a big problem. I do sell horses regularly and I almost never allow for a trial. The one exception is if the horse is going to a therapy program. They have very specific needs with a horse including being handed by volunteers, dealing with children of varying disabilities, etc. They have to be careful with a horse they are buying and I have to be careful that the fit works. However, I still have to know the therapy center over the years, it has to be close so I may visit and it has to be short in duration. Otherwise, I say no because the breed I sell is in high demand and short supply.

Since the OP is still looking, my one suggestion is to rethink the acquisition costs. These are separate expenses that are entirely within the buyer’s control. You don’t like to pay for shipping – then don’t look at horses that are further away than you will trailer. It is not the seller’s fault that you live XXX miles away. And no, the purchase price does not get reduced because you have to ship. PPE – I always recommend if you are buying a horse for riding or driving, that you get a PPE unless you can afford to carry a horse with chronic issues on your payroll. This goes double if the horse is being considered without being tried first. The PPE is an acquisition cost.

A non-refundable deposit is also an acquisition cost because it allows you to have trial. Usually this deposit is applied to the agreed upon purchase price if the sale closes. When that happens, it becomes part of the purchase price, which is negotiated by the buyer and seller.

There is nothing ridiculous in requiring a non-refundable deposit and expecting round trip shipping if the sale does not close. There is nothing ridiculous in agreeing to a PPE. If the buyer thinks these acquisition costs are too steep, the issue is with their budget and not the seller.

I once had a buyer desperate to buy two geldings from me. They lived on the West Coast and I live in Virginia. They were fine with paying for them, but they wanted the seller to cover the shipping. I told them that they needed to look closer to their home.