I have read this several times, but when I come across this phrase, it is not explained. Can someone explain for me please?
When a horse is not in the outside rein, if you use your outside rein the horse will go out towards the outside rein.
If your horse is in the outside rein, the horse goes in when the outside aids are applied.
So the aid to go from a 20m circle to a 10 circle is to apply more outside leg and outside rein, which is balanced with your inside leg and give the inside rein.
Does that help?
I found this useful. Mostly because I like pretty pictures :lol:
http://www.bluebirdlane.com/a-practical-image-for-use-of-the-outside-rein.html
Inside leg = pushing into outside rein.
Think about it like this. Track left. Find a 20 meter circle (perhaps at one end of the arena). Now, in order to get your horse through and “on the bit” you’ll first need proper impulsion and step. Forward movement. Once this is established, you can then ask them to bend (which is where the inside leg comes in), only if you just use your inside rein (pulling the head in, instead of pushing the body out), your going to end up simply pushing the horse to the outside and disconnecting the entire horse. There has to be something to “catch” that leg pressure, and keep the connection of the horse through the topline. That’s where the outside rein comes in.
I think of dividing the horse into three parts. From the poll to the withers, withers to the loin, loin/hindquarters. With the inside leg, we ask for the poll to the withers to come to the inside/straight, with the rib cadge and loin we want the horses back “UP” (if you think about if their head goes up, their back goes down and “hollow”, when head “goes down” (with impulsion/correct) back comes up) and around our leg, and the hindquarters to be in/straight (same as poll to withers).
Now, this is only possible to have a horse "wrapped around the inside leg, on the bit with impulsion, collection, straightness, correctness) if there is something to catch the impulsion and keep the connection of the hind end energy pushing into the front end soft/elastic/connection.
A good way to practice this is on that 20 meter circle, “spiral in” to something like a 10-15 meter circle. Then, you’re going to ask the horse to “spiral out” by pushing him out with your inside leg. But, if you don’t have the outside rein connection, you’ll literally just go sideways, instead of yielding out.
Once you’ve practiced the spiral in/out exercise, play around with inside and counter bends. Slight shoulder-for or a haunches in, little leg yields from quarter line to the rail.
Sorry this was so long. Hopefully it helps!
Very simply, the inside leg creates energy and the outside rein shapes the energy. As TheBrownHorse’s posts shows, it’s a bit more complicated than that… 
This is a great explanation and the pictures/analogy are very helpful to visualize/explain the concept.
[QUOTE=Lala7340;8753157]
I found this useful. Mostly because I like pretty pictures :lol:
http://www.bluebirdlane.com/a-practical-image-for-use-of-the-outside-rein.html[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=RugBug;8753362]
Very simply, the inside leg creates energy and the outside rein shapes the energy. As TheBrownHorse’s posts shows, it’s a bit more complicated than that…
.[/QUOTE]
Yet the comprehensive and simplistic approach in the way that you describe it is hard to come by
[QUOTE=TheBrownHorse;8753417]
Yet the comprehensive and simplistic approach in the way that you describe it is hard to come by :)[/QUOTE]
:yes: I just didn’t think her question was about how to get a horse on the outside rein, but more of a “what the heck does it mean when someone says this?” Like someone wanting to know what posting is. It’s when someone rises and falls in the saddle in time with the horse’s legs at the trot. Then it gets a bit more complicated when you are teaching someone how to do it. 
Based on OP’s other threads, I’m not sure she’s in complexity-mode just yet… She’s in information gathering mode
Might help if you think western for a moment. Cowboy riding his horse forward on a straight line. He decides to turn his horse left. Cowboy gets a little straighter on his left leg and lays the right rein on the horses neck. Horse turns left. Cowboy calls it neck reining. Dressage rider calls it inside leg to outside rein. The difference is the amount of rein/leg contact used.
[QUOTE=RugBug;8753469]
:yes: I just didn’t think her question was about how to get a horse on the outside rein, but more of a “what the heck does it mean when someone says this?” Like someone wanting to know what posting is. It’s when someone rises and falls in the saddle in time with the horse’s legs at the trot. Then it gets a bit more complicated when you are teaching someone how to do it.
Based on OP’s other threads, I’m not sure she’s in complexity-mode just yet… She’s in information gathering mode[/QUOTE]
Indeed! I’m so glad that you posted what you did, sometimes I over think (intellectualize pretty much anything and everything) and forget how to break things down to a very basic explanation. Good reminder for me (as I often teach the young, green, or less confident riders) to use a very simple explanation before diving into the actual finesse of it!
It has to do with straightness. This creates a tiny bit of shoulder fore, which is a 4 track version of shoulder in. you are putting the inside hind deeper under, threading it, so the horse starts to travel straight. Normally the hind legs are wider than the front tracks.
the shoulder position also helps create a good connection- the outside rein helps control the shape of the horse (on the bit), gets them off the inside rein, and helps them travel the correct line.
A horse ridden too much on the inside rein usually has a blocked shoulder that way.
I have heard this is like an anvil and hammer. Inside aids are the hammer, outside is the stable rock.
[QUOTE=SendenHorse;8754802]
It has to do with straightness. This creates a tiny bit of shoulder fore, which is a 4 track version of shoulder in. you are putting the inside hind deeper under, threading it, so the horse starts to travel straight. Normally the hind legs are wider than the front tracks.
the shoulder position also helps create a good connection- the outside rein helps control the shape of the horse (on the bit), gets them off the inside rein, and helps them travel the correct line.
A horse ridden too much on the inside rein usually has a blocked shoulder that way.
I have heard this is like an anvil and hammer. Inside aids are the hammer, outside is the stable rock.[/QUOTE]
Read the current issue of Practical Horseman for Bernie Traurig’s explanation of inside leg, outside rein.
[QUOTE=FAW;8754996]
Read the current issue of Practical Horseman for Bernie Traurig’s explanation of inside leg, outside rein.[/QUOTE]
?
Is there some problem with this?
I don’t get PH.
Why don’t you read some Dressage Today for explanations of why this is correct.
Shoulder fore is everything in dressage, really. this is the reason inside leg to outside rein happens.
[QUOTE=SendenHorse;8755667]
?
Is there some problem with this?
I don’t get PH.
Why don’t you read some Dressage Today for explanations of why this is correct.
Shoulder fore is everything in dressage, really. this is the reason inside leg to outside rein happens.[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure she was criticizing your response, just giving the OP another source. Yes, she quoted you, but that’s a mighty fine hair trigger for getting uppity.
You’re in the hunter/jumper forum so why is it surprising that she offered an H/J article from one of our top names who is more than qualified to speak on the topic?
Inside leg to outside rein is not solely a dressage concept and you don’t need Dressage Today to explain it.
[QUOTE=IPEsq;8753126]
http://dressagetoday.com/article/experts-27088[/QUOTE]
What are the odds that as I’m reading this article, my trainer tags me in a post on facebook with a link to this article:
Her response:
“It’s my job to read your mind.” :lol: :lol:
[QUOTE=RugBug;8755720]
I’m not sure she was criticizing your response, just giving the OP another source. Yes, she quoted you, but that’s a mighty fine hair trigger for getting uppity.
You’re in the hunter/jumper forum so why is it surprising that she offered an H/J article from one of our top names who is more than qualified to speak on the topic?
Inside leg to outside rein is not solely a dressage concept and you don’t need Dressage Today to explain it.[/QUOTE]
Would you like to talk about shoulder fore and how it realtes, or just complain? :yes:
I wasn’t sure of why you quoted me then gave a source, so it seems like you had an issue with what I said.
Of course it’s not just a dressage concept, never said it was. It’s just that DT has a LOT OF articles about shoulder fore, half halts, etc. More of a % than PH. Another good option in learning. The other poster linked to that, too, so go ahead and blast them too! ha!
I like BT and PH, but not being a subscriber anymore I can’t speak to that article.
It’s all the same, though, a good trainer is a good trainer no matter the tack. Don’t make this a dressage vs HJ idea. I’m not.
http://www.classicaldressage.co.uk/Q---A/Getting-the-Horse-On-The-Bit/Collapsing-in-the-Hip/Inside-Leg-to-Outside-Rein/inside-leg-to-outside-rein.html
I think I understand that the inside leg—when on a bend—is used to encourage the horse to engage and flex the inside hind leg. Can you explain a bit more about the outside rein—particularly the phrase ‘support with the outside rein’?
This is a good question, as it is one of those terms that gets bandied about with the assumption that everyone knows what it means as it is self-explanatory—or is it?
I remember from my training in Germany being told to think that;
“The inside leg creates the energy and the outside rein regulates it”
In terms of degrees of bend, speed—through half halts, etc. I like the word ‘regulate’ as it conjures up the image of constant adjustment.
How often do we hear an instructor yelling “more inside leg; more outside rein” and all we end up seeing is a confused rider (not to mention horse) squeezing harder and longer with the leg and hanging on to the outside rein in a death grip?
The concept of Inside Leg to Outside Hand isn’t achieved from the outset, but is something we work towards, in the same way we work towards straightening the horse. Our goals are straightness and collection so the horse needs to have even weight on both sides of the bit and his body in alignment, otherwise we run the risk of making his inherent crookedness—that we’re working so hard to alleviate—even worse!
However, assuming that your horse is capable of stepping evenly up into his bridle showing good longitudinal ‘stretch’ from hind hoof to hand
It may help you to think of the inside leg being ‘at the girth’ and of the horse is being asked to bend around it as a fixed reference point. The ‘job’, then, of the outside rein is to elastically maintain the horse’s shape around the leg, (by supporting the inside aids) but as I said this takes a while to achieve as first the horse must become laterally supple and ‘bendable’. If you were to only use the inside leg without the support from the outside rein (and leg!) the horse would move away from the leg, not move around it and he would also fall out through his outside shoulder. I can understand that the word ‘support’ may have unwanted connotations, but I believe one of my jobs as a teacher is to use the traditional riding terminology and give back its original meaning and not to reinvent the wheel by coming up with my own exclusive, elitist terminology.
To ride it correctly also requires that the horse can flex laterally at the poll. The ability to flex at the poll and flip the nuchal ligament from right to left happens within a very small movement of left to right flexion. When this works the horse fills out (comes to) the outside rein from the engagement of the inside.
There is no sense of making the horse work this way. It comes from a positioning of our own correctly aligned body. Neither is it just the inside leg and outside rein doing all the work! They are but individual instruments in the orchestra of aids that combine to form the symphony of harmonious riding.
[QUOTE=kvskvs;8753065]
I have read this several times, but when I come across this phrase, it is not explained. Can someone explain for me please?[/QUOTE]
When you are riding, once you have your horse going forward, you want to hold the inside rein steady and squeeze with your inside leg and a little give and take pressure on outside rein every three steps or so. The outside leg remains steady also. When done correctly, you will feel horse lift through back and go “on the bit” It is a lovely feeling. The best way to learn it, in my opinion, is on a circle.
[QUOTE=Limerick;8755821]
When you are riding, once you have your horse going forward, you want to hold the inside rein steady and squeeze with your inside leg and a little give and take pressure on outside rein every three steps or so. The outside leg remains steady also. When done correctly, you will feel horse lift through back and go “on the bit” It is a lovely feeling. The best way to learn it, in my opinion, is on a circle.[/QUOTE]
I don’t pulse the outside rein, it is steady. The inside rein sponges for flexion as needed.
[QUOTE=SendenHorse;8755825]
I don’t pulse the outside rein, it is steady. The inside rein sponges for flexion as needed.[/QUOTE]
I have old school trainers. They definitely say steady inside rein and use the inside leg to outside rein.
Think of a ballon. The material of the ballon is the “outside”, air is INSIDE.
The OUTSIDE of the ballon creates the shape. The air inside is contained by the fabric of ballon.
