Actually Patty, having tried both Equicast and KC’s PHW, they are not the same.
Similar, yes-but there are differences that impact use and wear.
The Spectrum goes beyond common sense-it is a tool to help owners from overusing horses-as AT says above.
Many owners understand the quality of a hoof much better when it is presented in a detailed way.
I find it incredibly valuable.
The Spectrum goes beyond common sense-it is a tool to help owners from overusing horses-as AT says above.
What is “overuse?” Is it using your horse beyond what his bare or casted feet can comfortably handle?
OK then …here is my scenario of "spectrum of use " …example: my barefoot horse gets trail ridden on harder ground than he is used to. He gets sore footed and shortens his strides and slows down . Horse is telling me he needs shoes or rest. common sense. I don’t need no fancy named TOOL to help me figure out what my horse is capable of. Common sense.
And BTW…in my experience, most owners understand the quality of a hoof when it is presented in a simple way.
Horse moves free and sound, good. Horse moves short and lame, bad. See how easy that is ?
It’s a tool for use for when a horse is undergoing the transition from shod to barefoot. Their feet need some time to adjust or even heal (depending on if they’re pathological) and good judgement as to how much and what kind of use is appropriate during this time is necessary.
and good judgement as to how much and what kind of use is appropriate during this time is necessary.
Again “judgement” = plain old common sense. get it? Common sense is simple, and free.
KC’s teachings give me confidence that my “common sense” is correct. That to me is more valuable than gold.
Patty - did you go to farrier school and then later decide to go “Natural Balance”?
If yes, why?
You are all very funny!
[QUOTE=Patty Stiller;4943566]
Again “judgement” = plain old common sense. get it? Common sense is simple, and free.[/QUOTE]
Easy for a professional farrier to make that judgment, inexperienced horse owner, not so much.
[QUOTE=Auventera Two;4942749]
What I gathered from KC and the program, was that he has attempted to “stand out from the crowd” in creating a school that will one day become accredited. The program currently counts as continuing education credits for those holding veterinary licenses, which was a big step in the right direction for the program. He does a great deal of work in the UK, and other European countries because over there, a license is required to trim hooves. His program is accepted by the powers that be, so the IAEP has really grown in the UK. There used to be a course held in South Africa as well. I’m not sure if it’s still going or not.[/QUOTE]
In fact the Institute of Applied Equine Podiatry is run by a guy who bought a degree off the internet from an organisation called “Middleham University”. He gives the impression it’s a real degree from a real university but it’s not and never has been.
No such place as Middleham University!!! Middleham is a tiny market town with a population just less than 1,000 in the Yorkshire Dales in North Yorkshire and quite close to where I’m originally from.
What Middleham University is - or rather I should say was - because they keep reinventing and changing their names in order to keep getting money and presumably to avoid litigation - is one of those organisations that send spam emails asking if you’d like to buy a degree.
So it’s what is euphemistically called a “diploma mill” and basically you just wrote to it and send a credit card payment and they authorised whatever you wanted. I believe it merely cost you $75 to buy whatever “degree” you fancied. They were an American based company though not English at all even though they sort of suggested it was an English University based in Middleham in the Yorkshire Dales. I believe they’re no longer in exsitence or else they’ve just reinvented themselves and most likely are called something else and now selling degrees in law and business administration ! Yeh right!
Note the following from this spurious organisations own marekting information when they asked you to send your $75 to buy your degree.
Quote:
24. Is this a good way to get a degree?
For some people it is the only way they will get a degree
Quote:
There are some limitations to your Middleham University degree, especially if you want a degree to enter a traditional graduate school.
So it seems that KC LaPierre bought his Phoney Degree from Middleham Diploma Mill and then went on to actually copy word for word what Middleham University said to sell their phoney degrees to sell his “diplomas in equine podiatry”.
Those who want to know more might be interested in this posting:
http://www.horseshoes.com/forums/showthread.php?p=85494&highlight=diploma#post85494
So KC LaPierre bought his degree and then copied all the marketing material the diploma mill used and went on to use it to sell courses and diplomas to other people.
It’s not accredited.
Equine Podiatrists are rarer than mountain gorillas in the UK.
It’s merely a private training course sold by someone whose trainees then go on to talk it up and make valiant efforts to make a living or else sell some more.
It used to be called pyramid selling in the old days. Now it seems it’s called a Degree in Applied Equine Podiatry and oh boy do those that paid for the privilege of being one REALLY believe the hype and marketing trash that it dishes out.
End of the day though it seems that he’s a farrier turned marketeer and purveyor of training and diplomas. You could argue that the training he gives does no harm and indeed raises knowledge and competence.
Though in my opinion it’s neither different nor new. I really personally can’t get over the problem of someone using fake qualifications and false marketing to sell though.
When it comes to what they actually market and do in terms of the training and trim though that’s interesting. Nothing new though. One of the trims that is taught and demonstrated by him is I believe called “The High Performance Trim” and if you go on one of his courses or see it, then you will soon realise, if you have any knowledge of Farriery, that it is the standard trim that has been taught to UK Farriers since Adam was a lad! Only thing is though, he says that the high performance is achieved through applied equine podiatry.
Now that gobbledegook (applied equine podiatry! high performance trim!!) might impress those who know no better but it’s just is a fancy name to give a trim. I know that when in the UK LaPierre to promote his wares he was also spouting the nonsense that with a high performance trim you should not need shoes at all, whatever you are doing. That, to me, shows a total lack of understanding of the terrain and also the use we put our horses to in the UK. He got that feedback here from those who are knowledgeable.
I don’t say that horses can’t go without shoe’s, in fact I’ve currently got 11 of my own that are shoeless. Likewise it’s estimated that about just less than 30% of the equine population in the UK are barefoot. Unfortunately though this does not work for the majority of serious competition horses in hard work. Or in other words for high performance horses.
Seems to me that there’s a gap in owner knowledge and the Institute of Applied Equine Podiatry is eager to have the opportunity to fill it.
[QUOTE=Thomas_1;4943806]
It used to be called pyramid selling in the old days. Now it seems it’s called a Degree in Applied Equine Podiatry and oh boy do those that paid for the privilege of being one REALLY believe the hype and marketing trash that it dishes out.[/QUOTE]
No Thomas. You are wrong. Pyramid selling is MLM (Multi-level marketing).
IAEP is not an MLM.
People choose to attend IAEP, earn a certificate, then go out into the real world and work. They don’t go out to sell IAEP and then earn $$ for anyone they ‘bring into the fold’. They work hard to earn a living just like anyone else.
I’ve had a couple of IAEP people here for ‘advanced’ practicums and they blow the water out of any farrier or trimmer who has just gone to a couple of clinics or 3 week shoeing schools! (I’ve had a few farriers, too, and there is no comparison!) The IAEP knowledge of equine hoof anatomy is exemplary. Their trim skills were excellent and all round knowledge outstanding.
Aside from what is said about KC’s ‘internet diploma’ – he teaches good stuff from what I can see the people who graduate from his ‘school’ are skilled, knowledgeable and solid, positive additions to the professional care of hooves/horses.
Correct Gwen-there is no pyramid or MLM aspect to IAEP.
Thomas-I would be interested in hearing more about the trim KC teaches vs a (need a name…traditional UK trim?)
I have always thought KC’s trim was more like a ‘farrier trim’ than other barefoot ‘methods’ (Gack I have that term)…but don’t know enough to know for sure-and CERTAINLY don’t know what farriers are taught in the UK.
Could you explain what is the same and what is different?
One thing he teaches is never EVER to site down a leg for balance-no hanging the leg by the hock at class!
Why no siting down the leg, LMH? Is there a particular reason he rejects this?
[QUOTE=caballus;4943817]
No Thomas. You are wrong. Pyramid selling is MLM (Multi-level marketing).
IAEP is not an MLM.
People choose to attend IAEP, earn a certificate, then go out into the real world and work. They don’t go out to sell IAEP [/QUOTE] Are you sure? My understanding is that many do indeed go on to sell the training and that there’s even a contract to enable them to do that. In so doing they’re further selling and promoting this non accredited training.
I’ve had a couple of IAEP people here for ‘advanced’ practicums and they blow the water out of any farrier or trimmer who has just gone to a couple of clinics or 3 week shoeing schools!
Going to a couple of clinics or a 3 week shoeing school doesn’t make anyone a professional trimmer or professional farrier in my opinion.
Aside from the fact that you are also selling non-accredited training, you’re actually not even comparing to what is actually accredited farriery training.
You need to consider the likes of the WCF or CF etc not some other organisation that just flogs short courses!
Aside from what is said about KC’s ‘internet diploma’ – he teaches good stuff from what I can see the people who graduate from his ‘school’ are skilled, knowledgeable and solid, positive additions to the professional care of hooves/horses.
I don’t see why he wouldn’t be able to do a decent trim. He is after all a qualified farrier. Likewise I’m sure there’s some folks been through the training that are absolutely o.k.
I am however extremely cynical and sceptical about someone who has to make up qualifications and suggest that what he’s doing is something it isn’t. End of the day he’s selling open or distance learning training. No more and no less.
It’s not accredited by any official examination accreditation body. Neither is it anywhere near as comprehensive as any of the the accredited qualifications.
Are you sure? My understanding is that many do indeed go on to sell the training and that there’s even a contract to enable them to do that.
I’m sure some do however, nothing of the revenue that is generated through those trainings go back to the institute. They are private earnings from what I understand. Therefore can be classified as nothing more than good ole American initiative and hard work.
Going to a couple of clinics or a 3 week shoeing school doesn’t make anyone a professional trimmer or professional farrier in my opinion.
Well, Thomas – bring on the bugles. I agree 100%.
Aside from the fact that you are also selling non-accredited training, you’re actually not even comparing to what is actually accredited farriery training.
Take a look, Thomas, at what some farrier schools do in a 3 week course which is followed by some certificate. I’m talking here in America; not in the UK where farriery is a strongly regulated profession. One school in particular spends just an HOUR on anatomy of the equine hoof then goes on to do nothing but teach how to make and apply shoes for the rest of the 3 week course. Usually on very rank and uncooperative horses who have been ‘donated’ for the cause. How can ANYONE set about trimming up a balanced hoof when there’s no idea of what the equine hoof is made up of or how it should function or how it should be balanced? Yet, ‘farriers’ who go through this 3 week schooling go home again and set up shop. It’s scary, to me! I’ve seen, over and over and over again, the results of such inadequate schooling. And yes, to be fair, I’ll say it about trimmers, as well. The same thing happens.
There are people who never went on to any sort of formal training having learned through family (Dad was a farrier, Uncle was a farrier, etc. and passed it on to the younger generation who had the interest) … and to be perfectly honest? I would prefer someone who has years of experience over one who just popped out of school with a certificate or letters after their name. It’s great to learn all the bookwork and read all the texts but horses don’t read all that stuff. They just know when they hurt. Only years of hands-on experience will instill the embedded ‘knowing’ of how to handle many situations. i.e. – I find that many ‘trimmers’ or ‘farriers’ who have talked with me or taken courses have NO CLUE about diagonal imbalances of the hooves. In fact, I will say that 100% of them had no clue. I’ll go on to say that probably (guesstimate here) 90% of the hooves I see on a first-time basis have diagonal imbalance issues. The horses are tender with sidebones or ringbone and the mere balancing of the hoof helps tremendously. Yet these horses have not had that advantage since former farrier/trimmer had no clue what diagonal imbalance was all about. Therefore I see alot of sheered heels and wry feet as the direct result. 
There are those with a true passion for helping horses through hoofcare. Then there are many more who do this as a living only. Those with the passion will never stop learning about it. Those who are satisfied with the living they’re making will never learn more.
It’s one of those ‘human trait thangs’, Thomas.
Gwen - I’m interested in the diagonal balance you mentioned. Are you referring to heel to opposite toe quarter? I bring the heel, quarter and toe to the same plane and check balance using the functional sole plane, collateral groove depth, and I lay my rasp diagonally across the hoof, plus flat across the heel and toe. It’s hard to explain. It’s something that’s more “felt” I guess?
Patty - I feel that the Spectrum is more than just “common sense.” It’s generally not so simple as - horse is lame = don’t ride. What if the horse is sound, but has bruising at the seat of corn area, a small tad of thrush just starting, and a chip out of the toe? Does that = no riding? What about riding on soft footing only at a walk? Would doing an all day trail ride over rocky terrain make that chip worse? Would the bruise turn into an abscess? Could there be enough thrush to make the horse sore? Would that trail be ok if boots and pads were used?
The Spectrum helps take ALL hoof defects into account and give an overall picture of what the horse is comfortable and capable of doing. Obviously common sense is part of it but the Spectrum helps organize and detail everything for the owner.
As for IAEP being a pyramid scheme - I’m not understanding how that can be. We are not told to go out and sell products or services to benefit the school. The education we receive is used to make money for ourselves. Not a dime of my earnings has gone to the school or to KC or anyone in the school other than into my own pocketbook.
There are people who go on to be instructors within the program. They teach classes and assist KC during courses, but I can’t speak to how they are compensated because I have no idea.
Gwen - I’m interested in the diagonal balance you mentioned. Are you referring to heel to opposite toe quarter? I bring the heel, quarter and toe to the same plane and check balance using the functional sole plane, collateral groove depth, and I lay my rasp diagonally across the hoof, plus flat across the heel and toe. It’s hard to explain. It’s something that’s more “felt” I guess?
Yep – from heel to diagonal toe qtr.
[QUOTE=caballus;4943853]
I’m sure some do however, nothing of the revenue that is generated through those trainings go back to the institute.They are private earnings from what I understand. [/QUOTE] I’m not at all convinced you’re right about their business model but whatever…
Well, Thomas – bring on the bugles. I agree 100%.
Even a broken clock is right at least once a day!
Take a look, Thomas, at what some farrier schools do in a 3 week course which is followed by some certificate. I’m talking here in America;
I absolutely know what happens when things are unregulated and what training is able to be sold.
Yet, ‘farriers’ who go through this 3 week schooling go home again and set up shop. It’s scary, to me! I’ve seen, over and over and over again, the results of such inadequate schooling. And yes, to be fair, I’ll say it about trimmers, as well. The same thing happens.
I don’t know why you find it scarey. I’d have said that for you it’s opportunistic. End of the day you’re selling non accredited training too. I thought when we’ve had previous internet debacles you’d classified it as nothing more than good ole American initiative and hard work.
There are those with a true passion for helping horses through hoofcare. Then there are many more who do this as a living only.
There’s also those who have a passion for horses and making a living out of it and THINKING they’re doing it fabulously. But they’re not accredited. Don’t have anything like a regulated profession which would ensure peer group review, standards of discipline and conduct and work but they carry on and talk the talk and sell the training.
Those with the passion will never stop learning about it.
Not personally convinced. I know that it’s entirely possible to be passionate about something and yet be intent on terminal stupidity because you have a closed mind or else only believe what you want to believe.
Those who are satisfied with the living they’re making will never learn more.
Again I don’t find that convincing and I don’t agree with it. Those who are professionally successful absolutely know that to retain the good living they make they have to stay ahead of the game and continue to personally develop.
That’s why regulated professions such as farriery in the UK also have standards that have to be maintained as part of continuous learning and development.
I therefore find your summary position way too simplistic and not in accord with reality and not as per the world I inhabit.
Well Thomas the world you inhabit is not the one that the majority of posters on this particular bulletin board inhabit, and you know that and are being intentionally bull headed. Since farriers aren’t regulated here, we have hoards of farriers who went somewhere for a couple of weeks, or who learned from a buddy. In some parts of the country, finding a decent farrier is nearly impossible. It’s not as simple as it is for you with nothing but very qualified farriers. Just try to grasp that concept and you won’t get so snarled up by simple differences over and over.
Are there any farrier programs that are accredited in the U.S.? Would their graduates also be allowed to work as farriers in the U.K. or other countries that require licenses? If so, which ones?
[QUOTE=caballus;4943817]
I’ve had a couple of IAEP people here for ‘advanced’ practicums and they blow the water out of any farrier or trimmer who has just gone to a couple of clinics or 3 week shoeing schools! [/QUOTE]
Good thing they blow the water out of farriers and trimmers because the last thing you would want is a farrier or trimmer with water in him or her.
Thomas-absolutely certain on IAEP.
Not pyramid or MLM.
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