Instructor Frustration

[outerbanks77]

@dmveventer

I generally agree with what you’re saying, but I don’t think it’s quite as simple as saying that a rider who isn’t showing improvement isn’t working hard enough.

Oh, I don’t think it’s simple at all. It sounds like the OP is teaching beginners and novices. I think they especially may not realize that there are things they could be doing off the horse to optimize their on-horse practice time.

Even as someone with >30 years of experience, including starting several horses myself, I’ve had to learn this recently. Even being fairly fit, my riding has moved forward a lot in the past year because I’ve been using the Dressage Rider Training program. I thought I was doing rider-specific exercises before, but this has been much more effective in improving my position and balance. I suspect that a program like this (which is 20 minutes 3x a week with minimal equipment) would pay huge dividends for someone who is horseless and only riding once a week in a lesson, but it might not even occur to them, or they might think it’s not worth it until they’ve advanced more, etc.

There is also just the aspect of digging in and working harder for many though. As I mentioned with the people who’ve lessoned with my instructor a time or two, they’ve specifically said “she’s good, but I don’t know if I want to work that hard!” And there are plenty of people who just aren’t going to prioritize focused schooling 5x a week, but rather maybe ride 2x a week just farting around and then wonder why they aren’t progressing. I honestly don’t care as long as people are happy with where they’re at, but do hope they will be realistic about the level of effort put in vs. goals, and of course the instruction has something to do with that (and the instructors hopefully are able to recognize when someone is putting in the work vs. phoning it in, and adjust accordingly). I’ve definitely been in the embrace the suck (the person I occasionally take jumping lessons from despairs, I’m sure), and it takes some effort to notice the tiny improvements and not start spiraling for sure.

[outerbanks77]

@Scribbler

People also can have persistent body conformation issues, especially in the hips and pelvis, that influence leg position, make it hard to keep heel down, etc. Often they have no idea.

Feldenkrais and other off-horse work would likely be helpful. When we’re talking about adults, hopefully they can do some independent investigation into the issues and figure out a path forward. It will likely help them have healthier posture/gait in daily life as well. More often, with adults especially, it is more likely to be lack of flexibility from working a desk job, having tight hips and psoas, etc. Certainly trying to force through these issues in a once-a-week 45 minute lesson is not going to help much because it will just lead to tension and riding stiffly.

[Obsidian_Fire]

@Scribbler

Many many folks, children and adult beginners alike, have about zero proprioception. They aren’t athletic in any other endeavor and have no idea where their body is in space. In fitness class when the instructor says hold the weights straight out in front of you their arms are every which way not even even. Sometimes they can benefit from being directed where to actually put their body and being asked to feel if it’s correct or not.

Is your heel down? Yes or no? Can you tell? Etc

This. Especially with children. A former instructor of mine, who teaches all beginners and mostly children, was lamenting this to me several years ago. She’s taught beginners for 50 years, and seen the change. Kids used to have PE with an actual PE teacher in grade school. Kids used to run and play outdoors and develop intuitive body awareness. Now most of them don’t! That lesson on the horse may be the only time all week that kid gets any awareness called to her body.

[Luseride]

Yes I break things down and get them to take the small steps towards the big goals. When it is right I ask how that felt and the answer is usually Great! Then I remind them to reach for that feeling every ride and they will know they have it correct.

Softball coach in college had us warm up without balls, just our gloves. Amazing what that did for my thought process.

[Luseride]

That usually works and I do that. We will make a break through. I did realize this morning that my adult had a male friend bring her the last two times and that may have a larger impact on her riding than I had realized. It may take a few days but posting here and thinking on it in the mean time is getting me to some new ideas on how to correct the problems.

[Luseride]

This rider has spatial and crossing the midline issues that riding was originally used as an unofficial therapy for, she has been with me since she was seven and is now almost twenty-five. That is why I have been more forgiving but when it interferes with the horse I have to come up with a solution.

I believe I will have her ride another horse the first half of her lesson and I will ride the one she leases then we will swap. That has worked in the past so we will give that a try again. That will give her time to relax and calmly ride correctly without the emotional aspect of being on her horse.

[Luseride]

It is not physical pain, it is the curling forward fear reaction. Honestly I believe if she fell off she would overcome that fear quicker when she realizes it is not that bad.

[eponacelt]

I hate not making progress in doing what my trainer asks me to do. Really sitting down in the saddle at the canter has been a long term issue for me, especially to the left. For myself, I analyzed how I felt when I sat and thought about why I was so insecure. I realized its because I then had a hard time putting my right leg on the horse. Which of course is because I’m imbalanced and have my own physical issues.

I doubt this will work for the kid, but maybe if you talk it through with the adult, it will help them analyze their own insecurities and start to make better changes.

This hasn’t made overnight change, and working with my trainer’s assistant, who told me to do the same thing in a different way also helped, but when I find myself creeping out of the saddle, my mind more quickly remembers how to re-engage that right leg so it does its full share of the work.

[KBC]

You are not alone, my BO had me make this up for her, and it’s become this old persons mantra.

BUT it’s hard to know where an explanation turns into an excuse!

[Luseride]

Yes, sometimes saying the same thing in another way does really help. Of course with the little ones a lot of times it as much about getting them to not think and just react as it is anything else. Will keep striving.

[Luseride]

Love it!

[Scribbler]

As a child I recall having wierd responses that made sense to me but that were based on anxieties or feelings that I was embarrassed to share because I’d get laughed at or dismissed. Especially about a developing body.

So for the child it’s worth trying to ask what’s uncomfortable. Is it down here, is it up here, etc? We can figure out how to fix it. And then practice some stand up tall on the ground. Life your ribcage. It could honestly be something as simple as nipple chafe or bounce, or the twist of the saddle. Or just the fetal curl response.

[2DogsFarm]

Maybe teach Emergency Dismount?
When I was a kid (riding brontosaurs ) we practiced this starting at a standstill, then walk, trot & finally canter.
Even if you don’t get past walk, it’s a valuable skill & kid learns hitting the dirt/sand isn’t painful.

[Luseride]

She rides western and it is a lot harder to do it safely than in an English saddle. I do teach it bareback on the lunge line in the summer so will do that in the coming months.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Speaking from my own experience as a not-talented, not-athletic person…

The more tense and self-focused someone is, the less they can listen to horse and instructor, and the less sense they have of their bodies and what is going on around them. This also means that something like a spook (or even just the right time to signal a transition to the horse) is less apt to be felt at the right time by a tense rider, so it’s harder to get a feel for the horse, and paradoxically the riding gets worse, the confidence gets lower, and the fear level gets higher, and the horse gets more annoyed and shuts down.

Sometimes having a discussion off the horse is helpful, but rather than having the rider talk about their fears, just ask “what can I do to make you less afraid and more able to listen”? That way, they don’t dwell on worst-case scenarios. For some riders, this may be lessoning on a less reactive horse or, if that’s not possible, take things down a level–smaller jumps, a focus on the slower gaits. Until someone is relaxed enough to feel and trust the horse, it’s often hard to learn, unless the rider is naturally very brave (although most riders have a limit).

With the kid, I’d be curious if it’s a fear response (crouching and curling).

[IronwoodFarm]

I have not read the entire thread, but some of the ideas are really good.

I have taught lots of beginner kids. What I learned to do is make riding a game. I had one instructor make up the term “princess position” or basically sitting up with shoulders back. It worked and she had princess parades. She also had them do egg and spoon races at a walk. It was all about games and it worked. And it can work with adults, too. Have you ever had your adult try to ride without reins? How far can she go? Can she manuever through cones? Can she ride a straight line or even a circle with no rein and eyes closed? There are all sorts of games. I swear they get the rider relaxes and that is where to start.

[Luseride]

I do a lot of games and they always help tremendously. I also have riders sing as that makes them control their breathing and when I sing along also it makes them laugh because I am a terrible singer.

[x]

With regards to the little girl that won’t sit up, check to see why it is more comfortable slouching. If it is a pain issue with the saddle, change saddle, or whatever needs to be done to address that. Then, tell her she will fall off if she does not sit up–and then when she does fall, you will be able to point out the consequence. If she does not know she is in danger of falling, and noone tells her, she will not have a reason to sit up. As far as the adult goes, the hands and heels are related, and are a fear response. Sounds like she may not be a good match for that horse. If she were riding it only in lessons, and you could constantle work on her, maybe she would get better. But if she is leasing it and riding on her own, it is not going to get better, and will probably get worse, as her anxiety is getting the better of her. You know it is anxiety as she never had the hands problem or heel problem before–and both of those are probably in response to the more sensitive, spicy type horse she is riding. Put her on a different type horse and the problem will probably disappear.

[Trot_On]

I once struggled to fix a little one’s position, until one day I took a good look at her jodhpurs. She had outgrown them, and they prevented her from sitting correctly in the saddle. Light bulb, duh moment, neither her mom nor I had noticed the growth spurt. New clothes promptly fixed the issue. I learned to pay careful attention to fit as well as safety issues with clothing.

Going to chime in with another vote for games with a purpose. Challenge her to sit tall for a certain distance and win a chance to play. Could be a favorite riding game or something simple as a round of “In my tack box I have a …” Go on to slowly name, add and list everything in the tack box. Examples, hard brush, apples, hoof pick, elephant, etc. It can be a great way to review equipment or get very silly.

[Luseride]

This week was better. Tuesday the ring was muddy. The little one was leaning forward again. I told her she was going to fall off if she continued but it would probably not hurt but she would be covered in mud. She sat up and did great the rest of the lesson.

Last night was my adult. No male friend and that really helped. She was getting stiff and reactive. I got on her horse for about three laps, showed how even when he was being reactive if I stayed calm and talked to him he calmed if I kept him working. She ended up having a great lesson.

Thanks for all of the replies as it helped clarify my thinking.