Insurance and the "aged" horse

[541hunter]

Those of you who own an older horse, what’s your plan for insuring them as they age? I have a 17 YO gelding who does the 3’ hunters and eq. I bought an agreed value mortality policy for his full purchase price and $15k of major medical, plus free $5k colic rider, the last day of December (when he was 16) from XL Specialty Insurance. However, now that he’s 17 XL’s premium goes up to 7% of his stated value for mortality if I renew. Come the end of 2017 when he’s 18, it’ll be 13%.

My instinct is to renew this year for a much lower stated mortality value (a little more than half what I paid for him) and drop down to $10k of major medical plus $5k colic rider. I haven’t had to use it yet, knock on wood, but I’ve very much appreciated the peace of mind. But as the costs go up I wonder what others do.

Would you insure a horse for 7% premium plus a few hundred for major medical for a 17 year old? What about 13% for an 18 year old?

[lynne]

When the premium on my mare’s insurance jumped when she turned 17, I opted to ‘self-insure’ by keeping enough in savings to cover a major medical event. Of course, she then had colic surgery at age 18. The insurance premiums would have been so high that it was basically a wash for me. She went on compete 2 more years in the 3’ hunters and eq, and just retired sound at 20.

I figure at that age, any unsoundness that would require serious diagnostics would probably be career-ending anyway, so having major medical would basically only be for freak accidents or colic. I don’t know much about the smartpak colic surgery deal, but it might be worth looking into as an alternative.

[findeight]

When I tried to lower the value for mortality when the horse hit 16 and limitations on use started to crop up due to arthritis, they would not go below a certain precentage of the initial insured value, like 70%, IIRC. Then I bought a surgical only policy right before the horse turned 17 to replace the MM they were dropping only to find it became void the day the horse turned 17, not Dec 31st of that year as the agent thought and told me…good thing I read that actual policy. Took the rest of that year to get a refund on the useless policy. It didn’t cover much outside of colic and had a low lifetime cap…something like 7500 lifetime for surgical only, no dx or aftercare.

Agents are nice, most are knowledgeable about their products but it’s confusing, constantly changing and you need to read the actual policy you are considering before buying it, remember they are commissioned salesmen so there is an implicit conflict of interest. Just because they may honestly think you will be covered does not guarantee they’ll be there when you need them

I dropped all coverage including mortality the next year. That was 10 years ago, horse has yet to require colic surgery at age 27. Lately they have been excluding more and more services associated with a MM event, wonder if it’s worth it for even younger horses.

ETA carefully read the SP policy if considering it. Including fine print and coverage limits. It clearly states it is NOT intended to replace insurance, only as secondary coverage.

[SugarCubes]

[QUOTE=lynne;8869834]
When the premium on my mare’s insurance jumped when she turned 17, I opted to ‘self-insure’ by keeping enough in savings to cover a major medical event. Of course, she then had colic surgery at age 18. The insurance premiums would have been so high that it was basically a wash for me. She went on compete 2 more years in the 3’ hunters and eq, and just retired sound at 20.

I figure at that age, any unsoundness that would require serious diagnostics would probably be career-ending anyway, so having major medical would basically only be for freak accidents or colic. I don’t know much about the smartpak colic surgery deal, but it might be worth looking into as an alternative.[/QUOTE]

My hunter is also insured through XL Specialty Insurance and will turn 17 next year. I am going to do the same as Lynne and drop the major medical and keep an emergency fund instead - at this point in his career, he has so many exclusions it’s kind of worthless anyway! My current policy comes with $5,000 emergency colic surgery coverage, which I believe my agent said would still be covered even once he is older. I did the same as you, OP, and lowered the MM coverage to only $7500 this year because the premium was so high.

[touchstone]

I would insure for the lowest mortality value that still allows you to buy major medical. At this point, if you’re still showing, it’s probably worth having the protection from big vet bills, but not worth the huge premiums to get the mortality. Especially since, realistically, an older horse isn’t really worth that much anyway.

I kept my show horse at $10k value plus medical for a few years when he fell into oldster range, but I eventually dropped everything and just have a pot of savings for vet bills now. I figure at this point, I’m not going to pay for big expensive lameness diagnostics, and probably wouldn’t do a colic surgery either. (Though never say never. I do love that animal.) Those were the two things I kept the medical insurance to pay for.

I’d think hard about what you’d do if your horse needed a $15,000 colic surgery tomorrow. If the answer is either a) euthanize or b) pay it out of my savings in a heartbeat, then I’d drop the coverage. If you would 100% do the surgery, but can’t afford to pay for it, that’s the situation where I think keeping your insurance still makes sense.

This article is not about horse insurance, but I think is helpful to consider: http://www.vox.com/2015/8/10/9123013/dogs-insurance-should-i-buy

[541hunter]

[QUOTE=touchstone-;8870069]
I’d think hard about what you’d do if your horse needed a $15,000 colic surgery tomorrow. If the answer is either a) euthanize or b) pay it out of my savings in a heartbeat, then I’d drop the coverage. If you would 100% do the surgery, but can’t afford to pay for it, that’s the situation where I think keeping your insurance still makes sense.

This article is not about horse insurance, but I think is helpful to consider: http://www.vox.com/2015/8/10/9123013/dogs-insurance-should-i-buy[/QUOTE]

This is a really helpful way to think about it, thank you! I’m working on rebuilding my savings after buying the horse and a car last year (yikes) so continuing to insure until I feel more secure there is the best option for me.

[Renn_aissance]

At 17 my horse only had one leg still covered so I dropped his insurance entirely and ensured that I had savings to cover emergencies. If he were a colic surgery candidate I’d have considered keeping it, or getting him covered by Colicare if the terms suited. He’s not.

[pickupthepace]

[QUOTE=touchstone-;8870069]

I’d think hard about what you’d do if your horse needed a $15,000 colic surgery tomorrow. If the answer is either a) euthanize or b) pay it out of my savings in a heartbeat, then I’d drop the coverage. If you would 100% do the surgery, but can’t afford to pay for it, that’s the situation where I think keeping your insurance still makes sense.

This article is not about horse insurance, but I think is helpful to consider: http://www.vox.com/2015/8/10/9123013/dogs-insurance-should-i-buy[/QUOTE]

I think it’s important to point out that almost all vet hospitals have a payment at time of service policy, meaning that you pay the vet bill up front and your insurance will reimburse you later. It isn’t the same as human medicine. I don’t know if this varies in the case of colic surgery or emergencies. Just sharing from my own experience with having to pay some hefty vet bills out of pocket while waiting for the insurance check.

[gottagrey]

At your horses age, MM wouldn’t really be of much benefit in terms of diagnostics so something like a surgical in addition to Mortality might be worth considering. My horse is now 17 and I just have mortality on him which I’ll probably carry as long as the insurance will allow for peace of mind. He’s insured for under $10K…

The other thing to keep in mind with surgical or M/M insurance - they reimburse you - not the vet or veterinary/surgical clinic so you need to make sure you have funds available in case horse does need colic or other surgery. Have a credit card with a healthy credit line or ability to liquidate some funds (temporarily)- then pay back when insurance payment comes through.

[foursocks]

I don’t have my 18 year old insured anymore due to reasons mentioned above. Aside from surgeries with a really good prognosis I won’t put him through anything drastic. He is competing at a lower level with his lessee and very healthy, and insurance was getting too expensive. He likes to randomly hurt himself, so we ended up having lots of exclusions, anyway. I have an empty credit card in case of big emergencies and everything else I just pay out of pocket.

I have my seven year old insured out the wazoo with MM and Mortality, but he is my big competition horse, he is younger, and replacing him would cost me more than I can afford right now. I did look into Smartpak’s Colic Care but the requirements for that don’t fit the way I take care of my horses and it just didn’t seem worth it.

[mvp]

A couple of things to consider.

1. A common strategy was to buy just enough of a mortality policy to help you buy the next horse. Don’t insure for the maximum value you can justify for this horse… unless you want to spend more than you spent on this one on your next horse.

The thinking here was that you were only buying the mortality policy in order to get access to the major medical coverage. And as an insurance agent told me, mortality policies is where they make their money; they tend to lose money on major medical policies.

2. Think of major medical policies as more like accident policies than complete coverage medical policies. And read the fine print. Lots of times, insurance companies will keep a lid on their costs by paying for some of the things you’d do in the event of a surgical colic or a mysterious soft tissue injury, but not all of it. E. g. The company will pay for an expensive picture that helps find a lesion in a ligament, but they won’t pay for something like PRP to treat it. Or, as was true in my case, they will pay for arthroscopic surgery on a joint… but not the $400 of HA the surgeon wants to put into the joint four weeks post-op for some pretty decent medical reasons because they categorically don’t pay for intra-articular joint injections.

My point is that having insurance is really only any good if you were going to spend all the money anyway, no matter what, and want some help with that. If, on the other hand, you approach your horse’s treatment more like a pure investment problem having a policy pay for, say, half of what your vet deems medically necessary might not give you enough help to do the whole job right. Or it might not make the most financial sense to embark on the whole course of treatment.

[mvp]

And about getting help just for colic surgery. I think you can layer coverages like Platinum Performance’s thing or Smartpak’s thing. So it really might work out well to buy a major medical policy intended to help you with a big colic if you have an additional plan to help pay for it all. That’s assuming you would do colic surgery on your particular horse, the costs of the surgery aside. And you’d also have to price out your total cost of buying this $20K or so worth of layered coverage.

I think it’s a “half vet-, half money” problem to figure out whether or not it makes sense to send a 17 year old show horse to colic surgery and then rehab him so that you’d have the same horse back at the end… without having essentially put in as much as it would have cost you to buy another horse.

[kmwines01]

For something like a colic surgery or even hospitalization, there’s usually at least a deposit. I’ve seen $2500 at intake just to be seen and dealt with as a possible surgery. And it can go up if it’s a definite surgery.

[Jennifer_Oliver_Equine_Insuran]

Insuring older horses

These are all extremely good questions to be asking as our performance horses get older. I write for several carriers in the equine mortality business and I can tell you that each carrier is quite different in their rates, rules and regs regarding coverage of aged horses. The most important aspect of renewing horses who have reached the age of 15 or more is that you speak to your agent at length regarding all of the different options that are still available to you, how to manage the cost of insuring and what parts of the coverage are the most valuable to you so that you can be counciled in a helpful way. I am happy to answer any further questions should you want further information jennifer@centralvains.com

[mvp]

[QUOTE=kmwines01;8871627]
For something like a colic surgery or even hospitalization, there’s usually at least a deposit. I’ve seen $2500 at intake just to be seen and dealt with as a possible surgery. And it can go up if it’s a definite surgery.[/QUOTE]

It’s more than that to get into the surgical suite.

[AirForceWife]

It’s a 50% deposit of the higher end of your surgery quote here. I just had a horse go in at Mizzou and my deposit was $3,500 for a $5-7k surgery quote.

[Arelle]

I have my 18 y/o mare covered at 8% with Kaplow Insurance.

Next year, she’ll not longer be eligible for coverage. It was an act of God to get it done this year.

Starting ASAP, I’m moving her over to at least SmartPak’s ColiCare program. There’s no age limit on it. Unfortunately, when they get older, you have to weigh quality of life and resources available - I’d love this mare to live until she’s 50, but if she were seriously injured then the conversation would be different from that of my 6 y/o show horse.