This is one rider but it’s a very good article.
Terri
Great article…
Here are some of my favorite quotes that I have heard from my trainers over and over:
"However, he warned against breeders and producers doing too much work with a young horse and advised on a gradual training regime.
“A lot of three-year-old horses are abused and over-produced to get to Dublin and Millstreet,” he claims.
“The first thing I do when I see a young horse jumping to the sky is turn and walk away. It’s a total disaster.”
As six-year-olds, they will be aimed at Lanaken and will jump 1.30m by the end of the year, while they will be jumping 1.40m by the end of their seven-year-old year.
“That’s if all is going well. The main thing is that they are not over-jumped,” insists Clem.
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The international show-jumper did not mince his words when asked what breeders would have to do to improve the quality of horses being bred.
“There should be a cull and start again,” he says bluntly.
"There are too many mares being covered that should not be bred.
“You would nearly cringe when you see some of the mares coming through the gate. Honestly, it doesn’t matter what stallion you use on some mares, you will not get a good jumper. People have to go home and be very critical of their own stock.”
He offered the example of a farmer with two fillies that could only sell one.
“What will he do with the one he can’t sell? He’ll breed from her instead of selling her for any money and keeping the good one to breed from. That’s ludicrous.”
“Personally, if the mare had not performed I would not dream of covering her. You could cover a donkey with Sadler’s Wells but you’re not going to get much of a racehorse, and the same applies to showjumpers,” he concludes.
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This last quote is my favorite and is something that has been drilled into me and I know there are differing opinions out there - especially in Holstien… but all I know and have learned about breeding ( I am NOT a breeder) has come from someone who has bred polo ponies for years ( yes I know diffferent discipline but same principle) and they will NOT breed anything that did not play and they have been quite succesful using this principle.
They also cull - if the foal is not going to be able to play for a miriade of reasons it goes to the sale. If the mare played but is not producing saleable foals/polo ponies the mare goes to the sale.
Yes Clem, as do most Irish, doesn’t mince words. I love the part about the 3yo jumpers. And especially the points he makes about getting carried away with the perfect front end form and how people assume this means super scope and ability.
I did start with an unproven mare, a TB mare. But my intentions were always to compete a filly from her which is where I am now. I will breed her when she is capable of jumping the 1.30’s. If she’s not capable I won’t breed anymore. I know it probably would have been cheaper to buy a purpose bred mare but I wanted to do this and had clear goals in mind. I’ve not bred the mother in 2 years and am just waiting to see how it all turns out. But competition mares have to start somewhere. Not all jumpers in the big ring come from just the good lines. I know many do and I’m not suggesting this is the way to go.
Terri
Great article thank you for sharing!
this is why riders should ride and breeders should breed.
there is a mixture here of the correct (and blindingly obvious) breeding principle, and sheer, verifiable statistical error.
the irish bred jumper has done nothing over the last two decades but diminish and reduce its quantative standing in the global show ring. they’ve had some greats, but, like hanover, and unlike holstein, they have failed to concentrate and improve those genetics and progress.
this is nothing more than a predictable demonstration of a rider’s ignorance of breeding. riders don’t study international breeding data. they work on the horses they have in their barn, and try to get better ones in, regardless of the blood.
one final thought, and i’ll leave this alone… there are also cultural differences within europe… i would take the breeding opinion of a typical dutch or german rider long long before giving credence to a typical british or irish rider on the topic of breeding.
but i’m not in a hurry for breeding opinion from riders from anywhere. i might want to know how their horses ride, but that’s it. i’m grateful for the views of successful breeders who focus on their job in hand. unless a rider is going to do a better job of gleaning an informed breeding view than this, i suggest he do the same.
Well, I always like getting perspective and opinions on breeding as there is always a bit of food for thought. However, I wouldn’t/don’t change my breeding philosophy/methodology based upon anyone elses ideas. What’s that saying; two horse people=three opinions? So true!
I did find his comment on size interesting, in regards to the days of 16hh horses winning being over with. I’m certainly not a rider at that level, but from watching a lot of upper level competition it seems to me to almost be the opposite? I feel like the trend to the uber big jumpers that rely almost completely on scope has turned to a more moderate sized horse (still with scope) that can handle the more technical aspects of the course a bit easier than some of the gigantic jumpers that we have seen in the past. However, the great thing about the jumper ring is that horses of all shapes and sizes can and do succeed.
[QUOTE=Equilibrium;6092251]
Yes Clem, as do most Irish, doesn’t mince words. I love the part about the 3yo jumpers. And especially the points he makes about getting carried away with the perfect front end form and how people assume this means super scope and ability.
I did start with an unproven mare, a TB mare. But my intentions were always to compete a filly from her which is where I am now. I will breed her when she is capable of jumping the 1.30’s. If she’s not capable I won’t breed anymore. I know it probably would have been cheaper to buy a purpose bred mare but I wanted to do this and had clear goals in mind. I’ve not bred the mother in 2 years and am just waiting to see how it all turns out. But competition mares have to start somewhere. Not all jumpers in the big ring come from just the good lines. I know many do and I’m not suggesting this is the way to go.
Terri[/QUOTE]
Totally understand there are times to use unproven mares… mares with great confo and come from great dam lines…
But in general I like to know both the mare and the stallion were able to compete at the level I want to compete at before I would breed because there are so many unwanted/unusable horses out there.
I know I am “Just a rider” but I am the one buying the horse too…
I think you can have varying opinions on this type of thing. Great for debate. Clem doesn’t just show in big shows, he buys foals and he brings on a lot of young horses to a high level that then sell all over the world. The Irish are some of the best producers you will find. But not as many deep pockets to keep the good ones here. I do think it just a little disrespectful to think just because a rider is German or Dutch they have a more valuable opinion.
I do have to value opinions of riders. Maybe more experienced breeders don’t. I get that. I’m not in the same caliber as most breeders here. But to disrespect the opinions of someone who does what he does is not on the cards for me.
Terri
Woops meant to say the size comment was a bit perplexing to me too.
Terri
Interesting
I know some BNTs, Olympic level, who, say a "natural jumper"is a “freak of nature”:eek: and cannot be bred, i.e. reproduced:no:; do NOT try to train them;:no: other than conditioning enough to make them rideable; I am always reminded of Idle Dice;); I recall Rodney saying that, they found/ bought the sire and the dam but, never:no: produced anything approaching his , IKes’ ability;
and yet, you do find lines who do:yes:
approach the talent of the sire; thinking of Abdullah for jumpers and /Jupiter;) for hunters
“I did find his comment on size interesting, in regards to the days of 16hh horses winning being over with.”
And Hickstead was How tall?
I also thought the comment about smaller horses not doing well was way off. Considering that 3 of 4 of the final horses for WEG were around 16h, that speaks volumes to me. And Hickstead, the number one jumper in the world was around 16h on a tall day, from what I’m told. I think a quick, catty, smaller horse with plenty of stride has the ability to be much more adjustable and fast across the ground than the bigger power jumpers. JMHO.
Clem likes tall horses. Always has and always will. He has turned his personal preference for tall horses into a general requirement for a good sport horse. He is wrong about it being a requirement, as he is about what mares should be bred to. But he is a successful rider, and not a breeder, and he entitled to his opinion. (Even if it is wrong!)
[QUOTE=not again;6093726]
“I did find his comment on size interesting, in regards to the days of 16hh horses winning being over with.”
And Hickstead was How tall?[/QUOTE]
And Flexible, and that little chestnut horse of Edwina Alexander’s, and many more! I thought a lot of the article made sense but the size thing made me wonder how much he’s been paying attention to top show jumping lately.
And Gotha. Love that little mare!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFT7_8lV7sY
He resembles me on my pony when he’s in the saddle 
