Doesn’t rider weight make a big difference with treeless saddles?
Not technically true. If there is soreness, the vet will give you a grade. If the grade is not a “failing” one, they will continue to evaluate at subsequent vet checks. If the back is very sore, then yes, you can be pulled. But it is not a zero tolerance kind of thing.
yes and no.
Absolute weight makes a difference but how an individual rides is a factor. I know some lightweight people who come down hard on their horse’s backs all the time and some heavy people who are balanced and light.
With treeless saddles you also need to take into consideration whether the rider puts a lot of weight in the stirrups (which may concentrate the pressure over the stirrup attachment).
Finally, some treeless saddle designs and pads are just better than others. If you are a heavier rider you might choose a different system than a light rider.
[QUOTE=Bogie;6012961]
yes and no.
Absolute weight makes a difference but how an individual rides is a factor. I know some lightweight people who come down hard on their horse’s backs all the time and some heavy people who are balanced and light.
With treeless saddles you also need to take into consideration whether the rider puts a lot of weight in the stirrups (which may concentrate the pressure over the stirrup attachment).
Finally, some treeless saddle designs and pads are just better than others. If you are a heavier rider you might choose a different system than a light rider.[/QUOTE]
Very well said. While a treeless saddle can work for a heavier rider it does become more challenging to get good clearance…not impossible, just more challenging. Riding style, weight, shape of horse, type of padding, type of saddle can all make a big difference in your success or lack thereof.
Ah, thank you. Assoc of master saddlers says “no way” to treeless saddles last time I read an article issued by them (they may have changed their mind?) And I had a master saddler say that it is very much a rider weight issue so it’s interesting to get different points of view.
[QUOTE=wylde sage;6013092]
Ah, thank you. Assoc of master saddlers says “no way” to treeless saddles last time I read an article issued by them (they may have changed their mind?) And I had a master saddler say that it is very much a rider weight issue so it’s interesting to get different points of view.[/QUOTE]
LOL! Yeah, I’ve read articles put out by them too. They are not exactly a neutral source of information though :rolleyes:
IME many proficient saddlers don’t have much experience with treeless. I work with an amazing saddle fitter. When I first got treeless saddles, he was skeptical. Until he palpated my horses’ backs and found no problem.
I’ve had a mix of treed and treeless saddles for the past 5 years or so. I have my treed saddles checked for fit twice a year to make sure they are comfortable. I’ve had one of my treeless saddles for at least that long and never had a problem with my horses’ comfort.
I am six feet tall and about 195. I am not a light weight rider but I think I’m pretty balanced. I have a Freeform (plus skito pad) and a Heather Moffett.
For hardcore jumping and cross country (I foxhunt) I use a treed saddle as I also have very long thighs and need a saddle with an extra forward flap. For most everything else, I ride treeless.
Argh, I am so torn when it comes to treed vs treeless saddles 
I have generally compared a treed saddle to a backpack with a frame, and how a framed backpack can spread the weight out and keep it better stabilized/balanced than one without a frame.
But this thread has me wondering again, and I’ve been reading more about different styles/types of treeless saddles and now I am thoroughly confused I just want what will be best for my horse. He is a bit more on the A-frame, slightly prominent spine side of things so I worry about spine clearance. I’m actually in the market for a new saddle and just want to make sure I get something that will make him comfortable.
Any links to good research comparing the two?
I haven’t seen a good study for treeless saddles yet. I suggest that you join the treelesssaddles group on Yahoo! Groups: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/treelesssaddles/ It is a treeless saddles group and the main focus is on treeless saddles but virtually all of us have started out in treed saddles and have moved to treeless for a variety of reasons. That is where I started my research. I googled every saddle I saw mentioned and did some research on my own that way. I also demoed and ultimately purchased a saddle based on information I gleaned from the group. Treeless saddles are not for everyone, or every horse for that matter but when the right saddle is on the right horse the results can be perfectly amazing. Treed or treeless the saddle must be a good fit for both the horse and rider.
Same here. I didn’t have any reason to want a treeless saddle, until I started noticing (and then a riding instructor pointed out quite bluntly) that my mare’s lovely gaits were no longer all that lovely. She had me ride bareback and told me I had saddle problems. I went to a saddle shop and had a fitter work with me, and I purchased another treed saddle. I thought things were going okay with that saddle, but my mare started giving a little kick when she transitioned to a canter. That let to treed saddle #3 - which left a great sweat pattern and appeared to be a great fit, until Jet developed white hairs on her shoulders. Luckily for me, I was went to a “cowgirls camping weekend” that week, and I tried another four treed saddles, which all left uneven sweat patterns, and then two treeless saddles. In the first five minutes in a treeless, Jet was loose and flowing and so obviously comfortable, I never looked back. That was four years ago, and she hasn’t had any issues with back pain (and I check pretty much every ride), sweat patterns are lovely, and no white hairs.
[QUOTE=froglander;6013152]
Argh, I am so torn when it comes to treed vs treeless saddles I have generally compared a treed saddle to a backpack with a frame, and how a framed backpack can spread the weight out and keep it better stabilized/balanced than one without a frame.
But this thread has me wondering again, and I’ve been reading more about different styles/types of treeless saddles and now I am thoroughly confused I just want what will be best for my horse. He is a bit more on the A-frame, slightly prominent spine side of things so I worry about spine clearance. I’m actually in the market for a new saddle and just want to make sure I get something that will make him comfortable.
Any links to good research comparing the two?[/QUOTE]
I just recently got my treeless but I am totally in love with it. Going with the backpacking comparison- Having a frame is great but you have to get the exact right fit or it’s digging into you and downright painful. But with a pack with no frame at all- it’s like trying to carry a really heavy, saggy pillow- it just kind of plops around on your back and you can feel the hard objects inside the pack. Then I found the right pack for me- it had lightweight flexible plastic sheet that fit along the back making it move when I moved but also distributed the weight. That’s what I feel the treeless saddle system with the skito feels like to ride in. It’s so comfortable and balanced and my horses go very readily forward and on the bit because the saddle moves and changes with their backs but also supports my weight with it’s structuring and pad.
The backpack comparison is quite a good one. I’m a serious backpacker. I do a lot of miles on the Appalachian Trail hauling about 35 lbs up and down mountains on my back. I’m 110 lbs and 5’4".
Backpacks come with two types of frames. The old fashioned kind is an external frame pack. I liken this type with a traditional treed saddle. These backpacks are the old fashioned variety and are still the choice of many folks who need to pack a lot of weight…like 60 lbs or more. Fit is super critical and unforgiving. I tried to use one of these and it almost crippled me on a 3 day hiking trip.
The newer variety of packs are called “internal frame” packs and part of the support of the pack is internal. It is lighter generally and less rigid…and again a good comparison to a treeless saddle. Yes, you can feel your load more and you have to be sure to pack well but it will mold to your shape and be very easy to carry if you do it right. This is what I carry now and love it. My pack on a mountaintop…you all ought to appreciate this pic. 
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l215/ssluss/Appalachian%20Trail%20pic/PA160065.jpg
Anyway backpack preferences are a lot like saddles. You pick what works for you. I like the internal frame but I’ve met plenty of folks in the old external frame packs. Each to their own…the key is to use what works for each individual.
[QUOTE=froglander;6013152]
Argh, I am so torn when it comes to treed vs treeless saddles I have generally compared a treed saddle to a backpack with a frame, and how a framed backpack can spread the weight out and keep it better stabilized/balanced than one without a frame.
But this thread has me wondering again, and I’ve been reading more about different styles/types of treeless saddles and now I am thoroughly confused I just want what will be best for my horse. He is a bit more on the A-frame, slightly prominent spine side of things so I worry about spine clearance. I’m actually in the market for a new saddle and just want to make sure I get something that will make him comfortable.
?[/QUOTE]
Theres no reason to be afraid of treeless! Just give it a try. I honestly dont find them so much different than treed saddles, in that it all depends on how it fits you and the horse, for the activities that you are going to be doing. I’ve personally not found a treeless that I really love compared tosay, my DeSoto for endurance and my Stubben for jumping, both of which put me in a sweet spot and fit my horses great. But I dont think that treeless saddles are “harmful” in any way. and the good thing is that they tend to have good resale value, so just give it a try!
We sell a reasonably priced treeless on our website, www.saddleonline.com. However, yes, treeless saddles still need to fit your horse properly and can be affected negatively by an unusually heavy or unbalanced rider.
