International GP debut for Jovian

[skydy]

I am an enthusiast of upper level Dressage (as long as someone else is doing it.)

I have only used dressage as a part of training youngsters. However, I have spectated for decades and even I can see that the horse is not comfortable in his tempis (weird crossing of hind legs) and seems to have no relaxation at the trot. His trot (to me, my humble opinion only) is often indistinguishable from his passage.

Maybe the top level rider/trainers can hold a young horse in such a box and try to keep it able to sustain that amount of pressure, but what’s the hurry? The horse seems able and willing, but rushed and unsure in his movements.

[SillyHorse]

@Cowgirl

And the judges suck for rewarding it.

[hoopoe]

In the debut test I wonder how many of these points were halo points, those awarded on hype potential and prior performance rather than those truly earned. If a no name rider was on this horse and produced the exact same test, what would the scores have been?

[2tempe]

After winning the 7-year old World Championships as a developing Prix St Georges horses in Verden at the end of August, there was not a moment respite for the talented stallion. He was launched straight into the Grand Prix tour, without even having turned 8, and the target of Herning this summer is set in stone.

this just seems so wrong…greedy.

[Equibrit]

Matine - rerun.

[TequilaMockingbird]

Same here. But honestly the issues the judge commented on are plainly obvious in the debut video we commented on from May (haven’t seen the Aachen test yet). Which is why it’s so frustrating that the actual judges scored him so high.

[Turntable]

Aachen is on facebook. The passage/ collected trot being the same and the floppy half pass series is worse even that the debut I think.

[netg]

Correct dressage develops gait quality. I think we all understand that, and it’s part of why gaits are so tied on to scoring.

However, what is high gait quality? Shouldn’t gait quality mean engagement, balance, swing, quality of collection, correct rhythm, etc? Instead, it appears height of forelegs and bounce of haunches are the hallmarks of great gait scores, regardless of stiff backs and trailing haunches.

I knew I had an issue with modern judging for sure when I was scribing for the L program. There was a naturally talented horse showing first level, who was well behind the vertical and didn’t track up, but in the trot lengthening resembled the flash of many GP horses. The judge who was training the group was asked how to score that, and the response was, “well, since the horse is behind the vertical you can’t give a 10.” Aka, it was a 9. Several of the L candidates expressed my thoughts, that it was clearly incorrect and bad for the horse, but it was dismissed as “young horse who hasn’t built up strength yet.”

That horse had a career ending injury within 2 years, and I’ve read multiple vets citing that type of injury as due to incorrect work. But judges repeatedly scored the horse well and didn’t identify anything wrong with the basics which led to the problem. And they are being trained not to - I don’t blame the judges individually, I blame the entire methodology being used.

[Cowgirl]

This is all too common! I know of trainer (now a judge) who had a horse in a clinic who they were doing endless revolutions of pirouette with and the horse was clearly sore. I asked her why they were doing that and why when the horse was lame. She responded that the horse had to learn and the owner also had to learn, so they were having to train this daily. And yes the horse had an injury. And I’ve seen trainers mask injuries that needed treatment with lots of ice and medication in order to keep showing. But this trend of breaking out horses at 2-1/2 with bitting rigs to make them look like a 5 or 6 year old is killing me. The horses are not given a chance to develop muscle or core strength which to me predicts a future injury. Anyone who has done an athletic pursuit (outside of horses) knows that you have to train muscles and you have to give days of rest in order for the muscles to grow, you have to have a diet tailored to the type of sport and you have to accept plateaus, and cross training is vital. There are visuals of the training pyramid that show the frame and balance the horse should be in in order to develop physically and be ready for the next level. I am not seeing trainers follow the pyramid. Even if a horse is born with natural rhythm and schwung, it doesn’t mean that you can skip those levels because the core isn’t developed. I think the comment of the judge that they are excusing something because the horse doesn’t have strength yet is so WRONG!!! Don’t stress your horse out by presenting it before it has met the requirement of the level! How is that so hard to understand? When this stuff happens at the international level, it is creating a bad role model.

Off topic, but I do want to say that I don’t care when people buy extremely expensive horses to get their medals or beat everyone else, but I do have problems with the way it is JUDGED. I think that if a judge can recognize that the horse is not being ridden to it’s ability and training, that there should be serious deductions on each movement. Don’t give an 8.5 mover a 6 because of those gaits when a movement is done badly–give a 6 and a -2 deduction for being ridden poorly and not to the horse’s capacity. Then maybe you wouldn’t find so many people trying to ride horses that are clearly beyond their skill set and winning (encouraging them to keep doing it).

[BigMama1]

@Cowgirl

Don’t give an 8.5 mover a 6 because of those gaits when a movement is done badly–give a 6 and a -2 deduction for being ridden poorly and not to the horse’s capacity.

Who cares if the horse isn’t being ridden to its capacity? Lots of amateurs are happily packed around by schoolmasters who aren’t being ridden even close to their capacity. Why should they be marked down for that? Judges should simply judge what they see in front of them in the ring on that day, period.

[Cowgirl]

It might improve the quality of riding training in this country. That’s why I care. Rather than instituting a qualification system (like USDF has been trying to do), just send people the message that they are riding over their skill set. Then the people who do ride their 6 moving horses well and to capacity won’t be sifted out by a qualification system aimed at addressing this same thing.

[Mondo]

“The passage/ collected trot being the same and the floppy half pass series is worse even that the debut I think.” Exactly my thoughts, Turntable. SMH

[Equibrit]

It seems that Helgstrand can be a bit of a nob.

Danish Warmblood Society Puts Foot Down: No Exceptions, Not Even for Big...

[Warmblood1]

Riders will make mistakes with every ride. Assuming they shouldn’t or won’t is completely unrealistic.

That said, I think Jovian is an absolutely incredible stallion. Getting to watch him progress in the sport is a pleasure.

[CanteringCarrot]

@Warmblood1

Riders will make mistakes with every ride. Assuming they shouldn’t or won’t is completely unrealistic.

That said, I think Jovian is an absolutely incredible stallion. Getting to watch him progress in the sport is a pleasure.

Why do you think he’s incredible? Based off of his movement, or?

[BigMama1]

I’ll answer even though the question wasn’t posed to me. I think he’s incredible because of his athleticism and power, even while lacking some strength and balance in the harder movements due to his age. The fact that he’s reached this level already indicates to me a great work ethic and trainability, as well as the physical talent for the work. Would I like to see that nurtured through less demanding work as he continues to mature physically and mentally? Personally, yes. But he’s not my horse so I don’t get a vote.

[SusanO]

The raw genetics are spectacular. The training is not. When the judging thinks that this deserves the high marks then there is a problem.

[eightpondfarm]

He’s just a colt. Pressed into service hard while young and developing and compliant. Just doesn’t seem fair. Totally lacking compassion to do a youngster that way.

[lazaret]

The horse is currently 8 years old. He’s not “just a colt” he’s a mature stallion.

Whatever you want to say about the training, an 8 year old horse is not a baby.

[eightpondfarm]

ah, my mistake. i thought he was 4.