For a horse that is four to compete at this level would be unheard of. That’s not how dressage works. It takes years of correct training to develp muscle, along with a good trainable mind and soundnss before a horse can perform at this level. Some get there faster by pure luck (no injuries or training set-backs).
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I like his breeding, his movement, his temperament and character, his trainability and adjustability, what he is producing as a sire, and that he is holding up temperamentally and physically to the demands of GP. His riders are certainly more capable than I am, so I’m not of the mind set to critique them. I would pair his hind end carefully with the right mare, but I like his conformation. I’m not crazy about a positive WFFS status, but I’m not of the mindset that all WFFS positive horses should be removed from breeding. Just paired with non-carriers.
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So. ot takes years of training to get to this level.
When do you think they started him to get to this level at this age?
That is a good question. I would say most horses are started as late three-year olds and then given time off. (That’s what I do, anyway, but I’m not a Grand Prix rider.) Real training starts at four. Honestly, there should not be a set timetable because each horse is different. Some mature earlier; some are late bloomers. A really talented horse that has had no training or soundness issues could be trained to Grand Prix by eight or nine. It takes incredibly correct muscle development for a horse to perform the movements at that level.
It would be great if more experienced riders who have taken a horse to Grand Prix could share their training journey.
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I’m not a huge fan of this kind of high knee and hock movement in a riding horse I’ll be honest. I see it as a fad but this was deliberately bred out for eons as it’s harder on the rider and the horse when they move this way.
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Read his “resume” on helgstrand’s site. He was Dutch 3 yr old champion so started and competed by 3.
He competed in the young horse championships so it’s easy to follow his development from the 3 year old classes up. Typically they would be started under saddle at 3.
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Than, i feel sorry for this horse.
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Many horses are started at three and do just fine. Depends on the horse though. 2 examples - my first horse was started at 2 (!) because he was a stallion who badly needed a job. He made it to nearly 17 with clean joints and a good brain and was PTS due to a pasture accident. My current horse wasn’t started until nearly 7. Although sound, she is neither sane nor blemish free and has had a much easier life in terms of just about everything. It all depends on the horse, how the stars align, and what type of horse shoe (gold? lead? platinum?) the horse has up its arse 
Would I start another at 2? Not if I could avoid it. Would I start another at 7? Not it I could avoid it. (depending on temperament - a more phlegmatic temperament would be fine to start late - the hot “alpha” ones can be a serious challenge.)
IME, it doesn’t have to be harder on the horse or the rider. If they are taught to move correctly, with abs engaged and a soft back, it can be just as comfy (imo more so) than a more straight legged moving horse. But, not trained properly - absolutely a train wreck in the making.
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For me, it’s about poetry. If the hind legs articulate to the same degree as the front, i’m ok with the aesthetic. And it IS all about aesthetics. Flashyprancy does nothing to aid momentum. feel this same way about hackney moving dogs in the show ring too. To my eye, it’s a distraction to witness. Takes away doesn’t add.
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Not sure why. 3 is a pretty typical age to be started, and the requirements for 3 and 4yo in the young horse classes are pretty minimal. In the FEI young horse classes the 6yo test is about the same as Third Level, and most of those horses would be schooling PSG if they are competing at Third. So GP by 8 or 9 isn’t unheard of in a purpose-bred horse who has been developed by a top professional. Again, it’s not going to happen in a horse that doesn’t have the muscling, fitness, work ethic, and willingness to get there so quickly.
If it were my horse I would prefer a slower development but I don’t feel sorry for this horse. He gets the best of care and is doing the job he was bred to do.
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You must remember that these are top riders that can quickly bring horses along. The horse is competing successfully at the highest level, I believe they started the horse right. There are many stallions who have competed as 3/4 year olds who had long careers at the highest levels.
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I’m not so sure that it is more difficult for a horse with greater limb action to move the way they do. I haven’t seen anything factual to support this. A lot of people have issues with increased leg action in dressage horses but little is said about the carriage horse, the gaited horse, the Hackney or Dutch harness horse, etc. Breeding does yield trends but these big movers are still consistently successful at GP. I would argue that lateral ability has improved with a lot of these very uphill, leggy movers. Regardless of lateral ability, I’m not seeing a decrease in talent with the progression of modern breeding.
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I don’t even think they have to be purpose bred for the young horse tests. I looked at doing them with my TB, who came out of race training at 3. If I’d seriously made it a goal and we hadn’t been laid up with a pasture injury for four months, she probably would have been capable of the 4YO tests–they’re basically 1st Level. It’s a big step after that up to the real FEI stuff, but I think a lot of correctly started younger horses are probably capable of the young horse tests.
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100% agree. The 4 and 5 year old tests confirm foundational training that every horse should have, regardless of breed. The equivalent of Third Level can be tough to achieve on a 6 year old for an average ammy, but not at all unreasonable for a skilled pro.m and a sound, willing horse with three correct gaits.
Getting to CDI quality GP by age 8 or 9 is a whole different kettle of fish. Definitely easier for a purpose-bred horse with a top pro to get to FEI levels by age 7, but that doesn’t mean other horses can’t do it.
We had a Clyde / Hackney cross in the barn where I board who started at First Level at age 4 and successfully moved up a level per year, every year through I-1 with his amateur owner.
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Maybe things have changed but, in Europe, most pros don’t show young horses much at the lower levels. They really made sure the basics are in place making it easier when they do more advanced training. In the U.S. I think the basics, and I mean really good basics, get skipped as people want to rush up the levels. I’ve seen plenty of horses do tricks, but they lack some solid basics.
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Eva Moeller showed Jovian as a youngster. He had a very good base with her.
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This horse was bred in Europe and shown in Europe since age 3. The European young horse championships seem to have plenty of entries and there are a lot of riders there who specialize in showing young horses. Is there even an equivalent in the USA?
I get why making a splash in the young horse classes are important for a big breeder like Helgstrand to make a young stallion like Jovian very marketable as early as possible. However, I remember hearing Carl Hester say at a clinic that he rarely shows young horses and the horses winning the young horse classes aren’t the ones he looks at when buying. He gave a couple of reasons: the ones that stick out to me were that (1) he is cheap and likes to buy “bargain” horses, (2) most of those horses have gigantic walks, which he thinks makes piaffe more challenging, and (3) that success in young horse championships does not seem to be a reliable predictor of international success at the GP level.
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Yes, we have young horse classes. I attended a USDF clinic for three year-olds. They pretty much went in third/fourth level frames.
Carl has it right and we’ve seen his results.
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I know many shows hold the FEI young horse classes in Canada and USA but is there a young horse championships like there is in Europe? I feel like having a high profile championship adds incentive / pressure for breeders to compete.
