I want to hear your opinions on this. I’m not looking to lose mine just yet, but it’s possible in the future and I don’t know if and ammy status is worth keeping.
In my younger years, I taught lessons. As I got older and realized that most riders want things “now”, instead of taking the time to learn correctly, I quit. I would watch folks, whom I started, move on to trainers who would let them jump, whether they were ready or not. It was too frustrating for me to watch them fall off, because they did not take the time to develop a good seat.
I waited 2 years to begin going Amateur. At first, I rode in the Rider divisions, because I had not evented for several years. Once my mare began doing well, I got the “When are you moving up?” question. Being older and comfortable where I was, I began riding in the Open divisions. I figure that if you are riding against the “Pros”, nobody can fault you for staying where you are comfortable.
As to your question, if you decide to go Pro and change your mind, you have to wait a certain time period of not receiving any money, before you can go back to being an Amateur. Good luck in your decision!
For eventing? In short- no. There is no real reason to keep your amateur status in eventing that I can figure out.
There are basically two reasons:
–to qualify/ compete as an Amateur at AECs
–to qualify/ compete for Amateur year end awards for USEA/ your Area
So it depends on your ultimate goals, but for the average rider who competes 2-3 times a year at recognized events, probably not worth it.
BUT-- if you also compete at recognized dressage or H/J shows, it may be worth it.
I am going to turn this around.
What WOULD make Amateur status “worth keeping” in Eventing.
How important is it to be able to compete as an Amateur at AEC?
How important is it to have a separate Amateur Leaderboard?
Would it make a difference if more HT offered an Amateur section?
How many declared Amateurs would be needed to make a separate section worthwhile?
At the lower levels would you rather compete against an Amateur who is competing at Advanced on another horse? Or against someone who is a Pro because she exercises hunt horses, but has never competed above Training?
What other things would make Amateur status worthwhile?
I think, for people like me who will never be in the position to “go pro,” Amateur status is a nice-to-have. And “people like me” consists of older adults with full time (not at all horse-related) jobs who live in urban/suburban areas.
Do I love the fact that I’ve qualified for the AECs? Yep, it’s a nice ego boost, whether or not I actually compete (I didn’t). Do I get a secret thrill when I look at my competition record on the USEA site and see that an amateur placing is first or second when my actual placing was 5th or 6th? Yes, yes I do.
I think, for the actual AECs, it’s a boon to people like me to have an amateur division. Maybe this year I’ll actually arrive at the competition. 
To try to answer some of Janet’s questions, as an amateur who is way too poor/cheap for the AEC:
I do think it’s worth having an AEC ammy division (it sounds like the AEC is really trying to cater more to ammies in the first place) as well as a leaderboard. In my area (II) there are a lot of pros doing a lot of winning so I see no harm in tracking ammy accomplishments separately. I have only 1x seen an actual ammy division though.
Where I get a little confused is the strange interplay between the horse trials distinction of rider/open and ammy/pro. I appreciate the theory behind the amateur points, that they do not require any HT to offer any specific divisions. But I feel like it creates some unintended consequences.
Off the top of my head I don’t have a better solution, but I believe that we could come up with one.
The AEC is one issue. But don’t forget, your status crosses all disciplines. An ammie or pro in eventing is also an ammi or pro for dressage or jumpers.
So, if an eventer wants to cross train and is eligible to ride as an ammie, they get to ride in the ammie dressage divisions (with $500 sweepstake money at shows) and in the ammie jumpers at H/J shows. Riding in an amateur jumper class is a whole different kettle of fish than riding in ‘open’ classes where everyone else is a working pro riding young horses or schooling horses for their clients.
If you are a registered amateur competing in the CCI* at Bromont you can win the Ledger Family Award and Trophy which includes a beautiful horse bronze, a cooler and $1000
[QUOTE=Beam Me Up;8645827]
Where I get a little confused is the strange interplay between the horse trials distinction of rider/open and ammy/pro. I appreciate the theory behind the amateur points, that they do not require any HT to offer any specific divisions. But I feel like it creates some unintended consequences. [/QUOTE]
Not sure what you mean by unintended consequence?
What I’ve noticed: There are some (most) HTs that run the higher levels on Saturday and the lower levels on Sunday. That generally means there’s plenty o’ room for different divisions (Horse, Rider, Open, etc). And then there are others – well, Town Hill (Area 1, CT), at least – that does all divisions on both Saturday and Sunday. Which means fewer divisions within each level (BN, N, etc. So, an “ammy” like me is pretty much always going to be in an open division. But, eh… I guess it might be nice to not be competing against “pros” but… I can live without it for the fact that the way they schedule it makes it more convenient for me in the day that I choose to compete. And it’s a nice, well run event to boot.
But maybe that’s not what you mean? Obviously, this is entirely from the perspective of someone wading around in the shallow end of the kiddie pool though and once you get to Rolex, well, there’s only one division.
Speaking of which: What is the proper terminology:
Are BN/N, etc “levels” or divisions?
And if they are “divisions” what do you call “Open, Rider, Horse” etc?
[QUOTE=KayBee;8645927]
Speaking of which: What is the proper terminology:
Are BN/N, etc “levels” or divisions?
And if they are “divisions” what do you call “Open, Rider, Horse” etc?[/QUOTE]
BN, N, T, etc. are “levels”
“Rider”, “Horse”, “Open”, “Amateur” are “sections”
If a section is divided (e.g. BN Rider A and BN Rider B) based on the number of entries, they are technically called “Divisions”, but the term is not often used when talking. People usually call them “sections” too.
Kaybee,
The consequences I meant is that I think sometimes the ammy points awarded are high if there are few amateurs in the division.
This usually benefits me, as an ammy ineligible for the rider divisions at some levels, but doesn’t feel right. For example, in a division of 20 pros and 2 ammies (say a novice horse division) those 2 ammies will get 1st and 2nd ammy points even if they finish 21st and 22nd. Their friends in the novice rider division might not get any points for a 6th place finish if the whole rider division is amateur. One year I placed nationally on an amateur leaderboard and I think won 2 low ribbons all season, due to this loophole. I had 2 uncompetitive horses going, and a lot of 10th-15th place finishes that were bumped up to high ammy placings.
If we always had ammy divisions this wouldn’t happen (but I understand why we don’t want to require that of shows). Similarly, if we had a “rider” leaderboard this wouldn’t happen (but, again, that would mandate that shows offer a rider division which we probably don’t want to do).
One approach would be to make the ammy points based number of ammy starters. This would still inflate the points but a bit less.
I always ride in the open division. Two reasons - amateur points qualify my quickly for AEC and it sure feels good when I get a good ribbon against the pros.
Have a green horse currently so competing lightly while I sort out our dressage but I’m sure those ammy points will come in handy once we start showing a lot more.
For straight eventing, in Virginia (Area 2) it doesn’t really seem to matter a ton. But, as someone else mentioned, it might make a difference in other disciplines. Hunters is the primary place it actually impacts ability to show on the weekends, in rated shows.
In dressage, it is nice to be placed against other amateurs, but a lot of shows don’t bother splitting the entries. That is annoying, I spend licensed show rates, but frequently am lumped into a single division with the pros. It is $45 or 55 per class at 3rd or 4th level (and up…not that I’m to FEI tests quite yet), buy another set of ribbons for me.
[QUOTE=Beam Me Up;8646278]
The consequences I meant is that I think sometimes the ammy points awarded are high if there are few amateurs in the division.
This usually benefits me, as an ammy ineligible for the rider divisions at some levels, but doesn’t feel right. For example, in a division of 20 pros and 2 ammies (say a novice horse division) those 2 ammies will get 1st and 2nd ammy points even if they finish 21st and 22nd. Their friends in the novice rider division might not get any points for a 6th place finish if the whole rider division is amateur. .[/QUOTE] This is one of the reasons I think the USEA ammy leaderboard is kind of BS.
I am a classic ammy ( 1horse, non-horsey full-time job, etc) and I really find no difference in how well or badly I place if I am in open as opposed to horse or rider divisions. I place well some days and lose badly some days regardless of which I am in since the pros are usually riding super greenies at training and below and some of the ammies are really good riders on some really nice horses.
If you want to really compete like against like, I have always thought the rider distinction was way more accurate than the ammy one. That is largely moot however as very few events I have attended have ammy divisions, which is fine by me.
I realize the ammy distinction has a whole lot more impact in other disciplines but for eventing? I really only see the area year end awards as a benefit.
[QUOTE=bambam;8646518]
This is one of the reasons I think the USEA ammy leaderboard is kind of BS.
I am a classic ammy ( 1horse, non-horsey full-time job, etc) and I really find no difference in how well or badly I place if I am in open as opposed to horse or rider divisions. I place well some days and lose badly some days regardless of which I am in since the pros are usually riding super greenies at training and below and some of the ammies are really good riders on some really nice horses.
If you want to really compete like against like, I have always thought the rider distinction was way more accurate than the ammy one. That is largely moot however as very few events I have attended have ammy divisions, which is fine by me.
I realize the ammy distinction has a whole lot more impact in other disciplines but for eventing? I really only see the area year end awards as a benefit.[/QUOTE]
Huh. I’ve never been in “amateur” section, at BN at least. It’s usually multiple Rider; 1 or 2 Horse; 1 or 2 Open; and possibly a Junior section or 2 (depending on the size of the show and how many people are allotted to each).
And in those terms, I’ve seen everything from max of 12-15 riders per section (so, several sections, at least), to the total number of riders at any given level+section split into 2 sections within each divisions, to the number of riders at any given level split into 2 or 3 “open” sections.
[Not really making any sort of point, just wondering if the approach each event takes affects the Ammy leaderboard as much as anything.]
[QUOTE=bambam;8646518]
This is one of the reasons I think the USEA ammy leaderboard is kind of BS.
I am a classic ammy ( 1horse, non-horsey full-time job, etc) and I really find no difference in how well or badly I place if I am in open as opposed to horse or rider divisions. I place well some days and lose badly some days regardless of which I am in since the pros are usually riding super greenies at training and below and some of the ammies are really good riders on some really nice horses.
If you want to really compete like against like, I have always thought the rider distinction was way more accurate than the ammy one. That is largely moot however as very few events I have attended have ammy divisions, which is fine by me.
I realize the ammy distinction has a whole lot more impact in other disciplines but for eventing? I really only see the area year end awards as a benefit.[/QUOTE]
But the ammy leaderboard does NOT use the ammy upgrade points, only the regular USEA points (or at least they note it as such below the Stackhouse logo on the leaderboard: http://useventing.com/competitions/leaderboard?lb=overall).
Of the four events I have done this year, three of them offered Rider divisions, the fourth was an open. There are things about both I like (the “apples to apples” comparison of the rider division, knowing I can- if I ride decently!- hold my own against the big boys in an open class). I’ve heard the argument that I shouldn’t be allowed to compete in the Rider divisions because my horse has competed above the level we currently run, but I think that’s silly. If I don’t ride well, he doesn’t give it up for free, end of story. Maybe there are some former upper level campaigners that are “push button”, but almost all the ones I’ve met are quirky, challenging rides who teach their new lower level partners a lot (and usually make them WORK for it!).
There is an amateur leaderboard for each level (Bn, Novice etc.) And I think they apply there.
My question for the OP is what is their alternative. After 18 per USEF you’re either an amateur or declare professional status. OP is either wanting to become a pro trainer/rider, or possible a “pro” without knowing it - depending on if they work at a barn in some capacity they could make them a pro. So unless the OP is planning a career as a trainer then it’s a non issue.
[QUOTE=faybe;8647342]
But the ammy leaderboard does NOT use the ammy upgrade points, only the regular USEA points (or at least they note it as such below the Stackhouse logo on the leaderboard: http://useventing.com/competitions/leaderboard?lb=overall). [/QUOTE]
The Amateur/Jr upgrade is not used in the OVERALL Leaderboard (the one you linked to), but it IS used in the amateur sections of the per-level leaderboards (e.g. the Novice leaderboard
http://www.useventing.com/competitions/leaderboard?lb=novice )
as described here
http://www.useventing.com/resource/leaderboard-upgrade-placingpoints-explanation .
On that leaderboard, when the same person appears in both an “Amateur” category and the equivalent non-restricted category, they often have a few more points in the Amateur category, reflecting the upgrade.
