Can you tell me about the differences in the makeup of their mouthpieces (the kinds of “plastic”) and the pros and cons of each?
I was really hoping there was some more insight on this thread.
My coach just put my horse in a Nathe. The contraption looks mean and awful, but she says its not, its more like a hackamore, pressure on the poll but with a rubber straight bar, but super flexible in his mouth.
I have no idea if it’s as nice as she says it is.
http://horsebitbank.com/nathe-tandem-bit-mullen-358.phtml
Then I saw there are the Beris, and wanted to know more about them. I don’t have $300 to spend on a bit, luckily my coach is letting my use hers for now, as she doesn’t need it, but come the day she needs it, I’m going to be SOL.
[QUOTE=LadyB;8684049]
I was really hoping there was some more insight on this thread.
My coach just put my horse in a Nathe. The contraption looks mean and awful, but she says its not, its more like a hackamore, pressure on the poll but with a rubber straight bar, but super flexible in his mouth.
I have no idea if it’s as nice as she says it is.
http://horsebitbank.com/nathe-tandem-bit-mullen-358.phtml
Then I saw there are the Beris, and wanted to know more about them. I don’t have $300 to spend on a bit, luckily my coach is letting my use hers for now, as she doesn’t need it, but come the day she needs it, I’m going to be SOL.[/QUOTE]
I would not call that get up “nice”. I wouldn’t be fooled by the non-metal mouthpiece; that’s a lot of hardware swing/leverage on the noseband. That being said, if it works, it works.
The Beris is pretty much exactly the same as the Nathe, IME.
He was in the Pelham before, straight bar, no rubber, it was perfect last year, but now its too much. This Nathe seems to be working quite well, but I’m not a fan of the getup.
He’s been in a gag, and I feel like they lack steering, elevator bits make him curl and back off as well. Bits are such a tough thing to understand and work with, Every horse is different.
[QUOTE=LadyB;8684106]
He’s been in a gag, and I feel like they lack steering, elevator bits make him curl and back off as well. Bits are such a tough thing to understand and work with, Every horse is different.[/QUOTE]
That they are!
how interesting - I was just browsing the Beris bits. This weekend I had a clinic with Lucinda Green. My very green horse I broke in a Nathe loose ring, but moved her out of it for lack of steering. She has since gone in either a happy mouth french link or a knock off happy mouth with a peanut (not roller) from sstack. My horse has clearly been unhappy with either choice and will dramatically halt or throw her head up whilst jumping…
Lucinda had me try a Beris Leather bit with full cheeks - i have to say it was an instant transformation - searching for the bit I found the other plastic bits made by Beris. Lucinda surmised that some horses perfer the leather over the plastic. I do not have a leather bit at home, but instead have a thicker soft black rubber full cheek that seems to do the job for now.
I am not sure the full cheek is not what made the difference for my mare. She has a soft mouth - and maybe its just shes a bit more broke now, that steering is less of an issue!
Leather bits are illegal for FEI dressage; not sure about XC.
I don’t think any bit is illegal for xc…
On that picture, the nathe part is the gentle part - it’s the rest of that set up that is “more.”
I have a Nathe (which they don’t make any more) and a HS Duo, which they do make still. They are very, very similar. The Nathe is ever so slightly more flexible and soft.
I have tried many different metal bits for my sensitive horse and he is much happier in the nathe than in any of them. Immediate and lasting difference; this is a horse who will clank and chomp on the bit just standing unmounted on the buckle, much less in work (yes, teeth, saddle, chiro, etc etc. He’s totally fine.).
I thought it would give me less finesse in dressage but so far this has not been true - we are working 1st/2nd level now.
I’d be interested too in a comparison of Beris and Nathe.
I do not use it for hacking or jumping as it is definitely not enough bit for those - horse is very enthusiastic and worries less about his metal bit when doing the fun stuff, and I need a little more whoa on occasion…
I have a Beris rotating mullen mouth pelham with their “soft” mouthpiece. I got it for a steal compared to other Nathe/HS duo pelhams. It do think the moutpiece is a bit thicker and has slightly less give to it then the Nathe, but my mare does not seem to notice any difference and goes quite nicely in this.
The plain Nathe was not enough to jump her in, but I had exhausted all other cheaper metal options and she never went as well as she does in a Nathe.
I’m the greatest believer in softer bits - although some horses have been brought along in metal bits with tougher hands in which case the horse has to relearn. Less is more in my book.
When you said you did not have steering with the gag were you using 2 reins? I have used a gag on a couple of horses, always with 2 reins, and one day hacking tried with just the gag rein to see what happened. No steering was what happened. Followed by grumpy horse because I was on the leverage rein all the time. And I have ridden horses in Pessoas with only one rein, and again, no steering. Add a snaffle rein and you have steering, and you only invoke the leverage rein when you need it.
But, yes, they all have their preferences - bits, nosebands, saddles - so you need to keep trying. My horse told me the other day that a loose ring KK was NOT OK.
[QUOTE=Hilary;8684949]
When you said you did not have steering with the gag were you using 2 reins? I have used a gag on a couple of horses, always with 2 reins, and one day hacking tried with just the gag rein to see what happened. No steering was what happened. Followed by grumpy horse because I was on the leverage rein all the time. And I have ridden horses in Pessoas with only one rein, and again, no steering. Add a snaffle rein and you have steering, and you only invoke the leverage rein when you need it.
But, yes, they all have their preferences - bits, nosebands, saddles - so you need to keep trying. My horse told me the other day that a loose ring KK was NOT OK.[/QUOTE]
It was with one rein and converters. I’ve never been told to ride in two to be honest. The gag was about 3 years ago now. We went to the straight bar pelham with a short shank. My guy goes in a loose ring straight bar happy mouth for dressage. It keeps him much straighter in front. He just seems to really like the straight bars, not sure if that has something to do with his Parrot Mouth or not?
I currently own a Full Cheek gag, but didn’t want to go back to that to be honest. The Nathe looks fierce, but the mouth seems super soft. He went really well at our last show, I didn’t have to collect him 15 strides out before a jump, could do it in about 5-7 which was super neat. Its definitely not as rigid as the Pelham. When I made mistakes it was obvious, his head would toss and he’d be pissed, with this Nathe he doesn’t fight it like he did the Pelham.
I hate playing with bits at the beginning of the season, I get so nervous messing with it all.
[QUOTE=LadyB;8685268]
It was with one rein and converters. I’ve never been told to ride in two to be honest. The gag was about 3 years ago now. We went to the straight bar pelham with a short shank. My guy goes in a loose ring straight bar happy mouth for dressage. It keeps him much straighter in front. He just seems to really like the straight bars, not sure if that has something to do with his Parrot Mouth or not?
I currently own a Full Cheek gag, but didn’t want to go back to that to be honest. The Nathe looks fierce, but the mouth seems super soft. He went really well at our last show, I didn’t have to collect him 15 strides out before a jump, could do it in about 5-7 which was super neat. Its definitely not as rigid as the Pelham. When I made mistakes it was obvious, his head would toss and he’d be pissed, with this Nathe he doesn’t fight it like he did the Pelham.
I hate playing with bits at the beginning of the season, I get so nervous messing with it all.[/QUOTE]
Don’t let the soft mouth fool you…that’s a significantly strong bit you are using with a ton of leverage but if it works and is what your horse seems happy in then that is fine. Just realize how much leverage you are using. Some horses really prefer that sort of combination and it certainly gives you a lot of control.
My old mare had a touch of a parrot mouth. She went in a Duo for dressage for a few years but moved to a snaffle. She preferred thick bits which surprised me. She got strong xc when we moved up to prelim and reactive in most bits…but she loved a cherry roller. With just a cherry roller snaffle I had enough control.
As for the Beris bit, I think it is pretty close to a Nathe type but I have not really compared them. The HS Duo is certainly very similar to a Nathe.
Regarding Beris, Nathe and Duo - somebody bought the other company out - can’t remember, but they are very similar. Currently I have a Trust as well.
Perhaps I’m fixated…!
Any idea where I can find a bit like the Nathe Mullen mouth cartwheel or swivel bit which is no longer being manufactured? New or used!
leather covered bits are legal in dressage. And Lucinda did the same thing to a rider here and I WANT that bit! The rider bought the bit on the spot from her.
Trust sells leather covered bits - Euros 117.00 - 130.00. D rings are always so much more money than loose ring for some reason.
