I thought Schuyler Riley rode jumpers? Quite a difference between the dressage and the jumpers. The costs really do diverge when you are competing at Championship, mid, and lower level shows in this area, dressage being more difficult to find (less popular) and thus more expensive to compete in than the jumpers.
He was referring to MY level of involvement. That was the context of the conversation.
I find the variety of responses fascinating here and Iâd like more feedback about what is happening around the country. I believe that a large part of what is happening here was from stagnant incomes and demand for more housing (housing prices are truly crazy here) and probably some from people aging out and young adults barred by cost and commute from getting into the sport. Iâve talked with other friends from time to time and certain parts of the country ARE flourishing (Wellington, San Diego, South Carolina, for example) but much of that is a concentration of wealth.
I doubt that any of this has anything to do with Charlotte or Anky or anything else like that. I think it has more to do with the waves of the overall economy and what is happening in other parts of life (i.e. younger adults not being able to afford single family homes, etc.). One of our local trainers said that the price of horses is astounding her and the average warmblood is now priced at $100k; another local person said (in the same conversation) that $50k is a bargain horse. I donât know where that market uptick came from but people are paying that kind of money. The average person generally cannot pay these prices and many of my friends have stopped showing as a result. They still enjoy their horses, but they donât show them because they canât afford the ticket. I took a year off of showing (2016) and from 2015 to 2017, the price of the shows I entered increased by 33% and by the same token, those shows dropped all the competitor parties and the prizes (you just get a ribbon) that made is fun or memorable for people to participate. Now all it is is an expensive horse show.
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Youâve got Regionals this year and people are trying to qualify. That said, we had Regionals last year and our shows were undersubscribed and many of them finished by 1:00 on a Sunday.
This is exactly my concern and what is keeping me from buying a successor horse.
Yes, she does do the jumpers. The point is at her level cost of good horses has gone up dramatically at the international level but that doesnât mean people canât find a horse they can ride locally and do well on at some level
What if there is no âlocally?â
here, if you ride above about second level, thereâs no schooling or GMO shows for you. If you want a judgeâs opinion youâve got to go recognized for $400/day minimum.
I personally also dislike the L graduate system because schooling shows charge the same price for these people who basically arenât judges as recognized shows charge for people who actually are.
there is no local series of shows here. And personally I am starting to see the âhunter effectâ which always occurs when horse prices get expensive - the adult amateur ranks are filling with people who bougt a $$ horse that is ridden full time by the trainer except for the five minutes of the test because when you spend that much money the horse and the ride better be perfect every time. This means that you have people competing at first level on something with 4th level skills. Sure, you are only competing against yourself yadda yadda but when the person who wins training level adult amateur at regionals also wins the I1 freestyle, you stop wanting to show because itâs a waste of money when people are poor sports like that.
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This is definitely true for major metropolitan areas. Less so in rural areas, where I think lower level dressage/schooling shows are healthy/attracting new people.
Many factors come into play. Time, cost, and opportunities to train are some.
I live on 20 acres outside a university town in the Midwest. here, I have more time (I work from home so no commute and my DHâs commute is 20 minutes), it is cheaper to own horses (my variable costs per horse to feed/bed are close to $250 including shoes/trim/basic vet, significantly less in summer when they are eating only grass). But there are far fewer excellent trainers and trailering out is the norm. I do more clinics than anything else. Compare to when I lived in Boston and that was my monthly farrier bill.
i could do area shows and with time be competitive to a decent level if I focused, but I will never be going to WEF, Devon, etc. still, dressage is fantastic for horses done right, and I have noticed more people in other discipline taking dressage lessons to learn to do more correct flatwork. This is greatâŠI grew up riding with a showjumper from Germany so I thought decent flatwork was a basic for everyone, but it isnât. Lots of people compete hunters and jumpers for years without knowing the first thing about being on the bit or riding back to front. I hope dressage will continue to grow to develop good horsemanship across the board. the horses deserve it.
but I will say the group you are in, OPâŠit is basically impossible unless your horse is in an expensive full training situation close to a city, and that comes with a high cost. I lived in DC for 6 years and worked at a major international law firm clocking crazy hours wth an impossible to predict schedule. I had mu
horse there, but have never ridden less. If I had chosen to show it would have taken every spare moment of my life, and a lot of money. When I had a baby, it was not feasible to even ride given the rest of my life. It wasnât even really about $$. We moved for quality of life reasons. I make significantly less but ride a ton more, have a decent facility, and costs are reasonable enough I am contemplating building that $$$ fancy indoor just for myself because I can. When my kids are a bit older I plan on hitting regional opportunities and getting competitive again. I even have the horse to do itâŠshe is 2.5 and will go off for backing this summer, and is way fancier than my 2 riding horses.
i donât think anyone can have it all. You just have to kind of middle through and figure out how you want to do this.
top BNTs are usually very out of touch with normal horse people. There is a column about show jumping where McLain Ward claims that all the top riders are from modest means. That might be true for his generation but it isnât for this one. There is a reason most team riders are from the means of Alison Firestone, Georgina Bloomberg, Katie Dinan, Lillie Keenan, Lucy Davis, eve Jobs, Jennifer GatesâŠthe up and comings are almost universally from enormous means. You have to be to buy, for example, two Olympic gold medalists as learner horses as one young rider has.
dressage is going to same way at a team level. So is eventing. But at lower levels there is still a place for the rest of us.
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I donât know where you are, or who it is that you are working with, but I would say that if that is an accurate statement of the happenings in your area, that is NOT the dressage I know and teach.
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This, in spades. Thereâs no question that dressage is looked at - even by those outside the horse community - as the elitist discipline.
The competitive scene has being swinging towards the extremes for years now. It started with the increase in popularity of the German training scale, emphasizing horses with flamboyant action and popularizing the goose-stepping trot. European WBs have taken over the competitive scene - spectators now want a show, and so horses are pushed and bred to be more and more exuberant in their movement. As far as Iâm concerned, the days of watching a truly unified, soft partnership have been waning for a while. Regardless of what the guidelines state, when the crowd canât watch several performances and understand the judging and placing, thereâs a problem.
Want to see a truly incredible show of horsemanship, high level training and athleticism? Look up working equitation. Those horses are collected, soft, elastic and a far better example of incredible oneness, power and correct movement than any âdressageâ horse Iâve seen lately.
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This. I think demographics plays a huge role. The baby boomers, who are the portion of the population in the age bracket with the highest disposal income and free time, are aging out of all athletic activities.
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This might be a little part of it as well. As a person of modest means on a modest OTTB, trained for the most part by me, it is incredibly depressing to be competing against these people. I donât mind competing for myself and for my own personal growth but itâs nice to have some chance of a placing (if all things being equal we deserve it). If I know Iâm competing against the $$$/trainer-ridden horses, why should I pay $$$$ to enter a show? My TB is nice but heâll never have WB gaits. At least at the schooling shows I compete with people more like myself.
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Agree with many points, but also the sad fact that youth are not fit - I donât necessarily agree itâs a snowflake fear of getting hurt, but the fact that out of 10000 high school students, only 300 could pass military fitness requirements for entry (which are NOT hard - weâre not talking special ops!), says a lot about the obesity epidemic. Other sports are also on the decline, and those cost far less than horse sports.
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Iâm in the northeast, and I donât see any decline. Our schooling shows fill, our rated shows sometimes go to waitlist, and our regionals grows most years. Even the bad trainers seem to fill their aisles.
In my immediate area, I do see a bit of a change though. Within an hour of NYC, there used to be far more backyard farms and general boarding barns that didnât require training. With land values so high, it seems that those options have fallen away, or perhaps been too costly to maintain. Everything is now full training, which I donât mind, but I suspect that is the only way to bring in enough money to make the economics work.
Yes, it is declining, except in the moneyed populations. Dressage was a grass roots discipline 25 years ago - you could come in and do well at the lower levels if you had a horse with 3 functional gaits and you knew how to ride. You could make it through the mid-levels (2nd/3rd level) taking a lesson once a week and riding your horse yourself. And it was a logical sport with a defined progression, and a training pyramid that made a lot of sense. When you showed, you got instant feedback and you UNDERSTOOD why you placed where you did. So it appealed to a lot of people. And more and more people started riding dressage for that reason.
It got too popular. Which meant the money found dressage. And the Europeans realized that Americans were a viable market. So fancy horses because a requirement - imported or at least of imported bloodlines. Well, with fancy horses comes the need for better riding - so those horses needed to be in training. And those who rode regular horses, and hauled out for a lesson once a week found themselves losing ground. No longer competitive in the show ring. And Europeans drive the discipline rules through the FEI - so the rules changed to favor the expensive horses.
What had been a sport most could compete in - you could have a $5k horse (heck, my first dressage horse was $2k), $50/week lessons, and about $100 in annual memberships. Dressage shows were relatively inexpensive - even in California, you could show a couple of classes for under $100 - including all fees. Even some of our Olympians were riding Thoroughbreds. Now we have a discipline where the horse is going to cost you $30k (for a green horse) or $100k for a schoolmaster. More if you want to be REALLY competitive. Training and board are $1500/month or more (which is a HOUSE payment in the real world). Show costs have gone up, membership costs have gone up, everything has gone up and up and up.
I believe the quality of horses and riding have gone way up - but as a result, the grass roots rider, the vast majority of us are PRICED OUT. It isnât fun to go to a show when you know you arenât at all competitive. I see a lot of people complain that the horse that won âdid this, and did that, it shouldnât have won -it didnât even haltâ. But reality is, the sport is skewed toward fancy - a halt is a single movement - and the fancy horse will have the competitive edge just based on the fact that âquality of gaitsâ is included in every single mark. So even if they do get a 5 on the halt, they will get an 8 on the next several movements, even with minor bobbles. If you are riding that plain olâ $5k horse with 6 gaits, no matter what you do, you canât make it an 8 mover. You can improve the gaits, and maybe eke out 7s if you do everything perfect.
And of course, the grass roots riders canât afford full training - so they are on their own. One lesson a week just doesnât DO IT when you are competing with horses and riders in full training.
Yes, this is becoming a bit like hunter world. Which means it will stay popular, but its popularity will be with the upper income rider, and the grass roots will be left out in the cold.
Now, this means there will be less and less volunteers - in the earlier days, everyone except the judge, TD, and EMT were volunteers. The same grass roots people who rode were also volunteers. Show managers, scribes, ring stewards, runners, etc. Now almost all shows (at least in my region) are run by pro show managers, and in some cases, scribes and stewards are paid. Which makes the show even more expensive. This is partly because so many grass roots riders are dis-engaging from the show world.
I am chair of a chapter of our GMO, and we are mostly grass roots riders - and this discussion comes up with my board all the time. Where is the sport going, and what can we do to keep the members engaged? My GMO is huge (broken into regional chapters), and they are headed the exact opposite direction that we (the individual chapter) are headed - they want to increase the quality, support the elite riders, etc - and they have the ongoing discussion of why membership is dropping off. I believe this is the reason - if we donât include and engage those who donât have the $$$ horses and the $$$ training, eventually, we all lose out.
Someone I know just went and visited a friend at an âeliteâ barn. One of those people who has an FEI schoolmaster, rides with an international trainer, etc. She describes the barn, and it is unreal. Board and training each month are more then many of us pay to purchase our horse. More then many of us MAKE in a months salary. And this part of the dressage population is growing. So the overall membership is dropping off, but the high end is not.
I donât believe it has anything to do with rolkur as some have said. Actually, with Carl and Charlotte making headlines and drawing huge crowds to symposiums, there is a movement away from rolkur. Different types/schools of training have existed for much longer then any of us have been alive.
I donât have an answer, just observations.
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Yes, it is getting harder to find good reasonably priced barns with decent facilities. Iâm lucky. I have boarded at the same place for years and the cost is within my means. It would not, however, meet the desires of many. I help out with barn chores because BO cannot find decent help right now. Itâs taking a toll on my body, but for now Iâd rather do that than pay more. We have people here who have done VERY well with rescue horses that cost next to nothing. My own horse cost less than $5000, and has done well into 4th Level and weâve dabbled in PSG. Heâs probably gone as far as he can for me, for which Iâm grateful. He will always have a home with me. I do wonder if Iâll get another horse, or hang it up when this one retires. Iâd love to have another one to play with and just see what we can do. I donât really care if I can keep up with the âBig Dogsâ. For me, itâs fun to see what I can do with a âcheapâ horse. I canât afford a big money horse.
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I have seen a decline in entries, and weâve lost one of the most popular show venues in Northern Colorado. That show venue was regularly fully subscribed. Yes, this is an expensive sport, even if youâre playing at the lower levels. But whatâs the solution? Recognized shows are expensive to put on. Schooling shows, not so much, but if youâre seeking points, schooling shows are not where you go. Few people make money boarding, what with upkeep and overhead. Help is increasingly hard to find and keep. Itâs tough out there!
I havenât noticed a decline in dressage locally (around DC). Iâve been competing in dressage here since 1997 and there has definitely been an increase in the quality of the horses and the riders. Itâs hard to speak to numbers though, as show attendance fluctuates from year to year and show to show for many reasons and really, I donât keep track! I suspect that the factors people have mentioned (aging baby boomers, economic conditions, suburban sprawl) affect all horse sports and horse ownership in general. I also think that compared to 20 years ago dressage is more popular, not less, but I donât know which way it is trending right now.
Iâm sorry to hear you have so few options and surprised that your recognized shows cost so much more than ours. Here there are a lot of schooling shows, some of which offer year-end awards, and you pay around $25-40 per test to be judged by an L grad or an r judge. At the recognized shows, a few tests over two days is under $300 for the weekend (without stabling, which would probably add $100-120 for the whole show, not per day). $400/day is mind-blowing! I couldnât justify that either.
Side note: Iâm confused by this. One person canât show the same horse at training and I1 at the same show. Do you mean the person won training level on one horse and I1 on another? I donât see how it makes someone a poor sport to show two different horses at the horsesâ levels of ability. In your mind, because I have competed my old horse successfully to Grand Prix I canât take my 5-year-old out at training/1st without looking like a poor sport!?
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I donât think dressage per se is declining, at least in this area⊠however it is aging⊠and the class lists at shows have been getting smaller for several years. The biggest impact however is the lack of facilities to board at. One more is closing in Santa Barbara, and while not a dressage place exactly, its just indicative of how hard it is to keep horse facilities going with the cost of land and water. That BO/lessor has been there 30 years. Especially if you want board, and not full training⊠then your options are even fewer. And dog forbid you actually work and need reasonable access hours. Oh⊠and lets not forget an all weather ring. As the riders age, many are thinking about retiring and how they will pay for everything horse related in the future. There are not the young people willing to put forth the effort to actually learn and do dressage ârightâ. They want buttons and results. That means H/J.
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@Libby2563 I agree, I certainly donât want to be considered a poor sport for showing green horses at an appropriate level! They need miles somehow, at least the ammy is trying to produce a horse themselves. Not that there is anything wrong with having a pro do it either!
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I live in the Midwest. I think our area recognized shows are doing OK. I see a lot of horses that are not WBs entered. We also have a popular schooling show series. What we donât have are quality instructors within a couple of hours drive. That makes it tough. I donât even know of any barns within couple of hours that would even offer a full training option with someone qualified. It does seem that dressage horses under 12K are selling very quickly in our area especially if they are QH or QH crosses.
