Menu

Stay in Touch
Sign up for ENews
Subscribe Now

Unlimited access >

Menu

Is Dressage Declining?

Dressage
#41

I think there is just a decline in general with equestrian sports. I live in Los Angeles, which used to be a haven for horses and horse riding. There were barns everywhere. It’s a daily battle it seems for these facilities now. Developers want the land, people are distracted in traffic and with technology. It’s not the same, it’s sad too because LA has so many historic equestrian areas which are just so interesting to me.

I guess it just depends on the area. Not sure how dressage specifically plays a part in that decline.

1 Like
#42

Wow. I’m really sorry that your experience of dressage hasn’t been one of soft and willing partnerships, and involves boring drilling in an arena. I feel even more grateful, now, that having moved all over the U.S. I’ve always been able to find dressage communities that embrace kind and correct riding and are full of riders who keep their arena work interesting and mix it up with adventures outside the sandbox.

As for whether it’s money or anti-dressage attitudes that are making it difficult for everyday people to find good boarding, training, etc., the NIMBY attitudes that are making it harder for boarding and training barns to survive in the wake of urban and suburban development are, IME, coming mostly from people who know just enough about horses to distinguish the tail end from the head end, not people who have a clue what dressage is or for whom the phrase “crank and spank” evokes anything other than kinky websites. Which is to say, this particular phenomenon is not about dressage but about horses in general losing ground to real estate development.

I find the opinions in this thread fascinating, more for the picture of regional and individual variation they paint than for any objective answers they provide about the potential decline of dressage. My sentiments on the topic have been pretty well articulated already by what @MysticOakRanch wrote. Having lived in a number of different regions, I’ve seen some of the same general trends across the U.S. (showing as a rewarding endeavor requiring fancier, $$ horses, show costs increasing, amateur communities splintering and GMO participation waning). But a number of other things that make dressage unsustainable for ‘regular’ people vary regionally (losing barns to real estate development, migrations of lower level riders to western dressage, lack of accessible showing opportunities, lack of good dressage instruction outside of full training barns, barn hours that prohibit working folks from riding during the week, etc.). I tend to believe that most of the changes that are causing the decline of a certain segment of American dressage are not about dressage, per se, but are symptoms of much deeper economic and social trends.

9 Likes
#43

Correct, if you are showing as an amateur I do not think you should get to compete at training level and I1 at the same show. Your abilities are obviously far beyond training level. Show open with the other professionals since that’s basically what you are, and don’t take it away from people who have one average horse and may never go past 2nd. It is in fact poor sportsmanship.

ETA: I know this is allowed. I am saying that it is allowing things like this that is killing off the lower levels of the sport. We cater to the wealthy and the wealthy win and then nobody who isn’t wealthy wants to play. Same story told with many different words.

6 Likes
#44

Absolutely agree. While total fairness can never been achieved, things can be made better. The Amateur rule really needs to be revisited and changed.

4 Likes
#45

I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on this. The one thing I’ll say is that it’s all relative.

You don’t want to compete against me on my young horse (that I bought as a yearling and started myself because that’s how I can afford quality) because I competed at GP with my older horse (who, by the way, is only about a 6 mover and overcame quite a few physical issues to get where he did, with once a week lessons from a good local trainer). You think it’s unfair/poor sportsmanship on my part.

Meanwhile, I take my average mover to finals in Kentucky where I compete against Alice Tarjan. I don’t really like to think in terms of “fair” and “unfair,” but when this in fact happened to me IRL, I’m somewhat chagrined to admit that there was a part of me that thought, “Unfair!” even though she was abiding by the rules.

So, just because I showed GP on a rather average horse, am I put in with Alice Tarjan and her illustrious mounts? Or am I more like you, an everyday rider doing my best with what I have? How many different gradations of amateur do we need to account for all of us? (Rhetorical questions.)

5 Likes
#46

Yeah, you’re taking what I said and taking it personally.

If you showed as an amateur in the grand prix and the training level at the same show, I do in fact think you’re not displaying good sportsmanship. There comes a point where you ride at a level commensurate with people who are professionals (you yourself say you develop your own horses) and the intent of the rule was exactly this - to prevent trainers from riding against actual amateurs. Just because you don’t get paid, doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t avoid engaging in the practice of ribbon-stealing.

Alice Tarjan has exactly 4 scores below I1. Further, she’s shown the same horse from the 5yo classes all the way to GP, so she’s exactly in the class you just put yourself - bringing along her own horses. If she’s supposed to be a pro but you shouldn’t be and consider yourself to be a “true amateur”, why do you feel that’s the case?

If I can’t win at 4th level because I’m competing against someone with a lot more money than me - that’s a different problem than being asked to compete at VERY BASIC SKILLS against someone whose skills obviously and objectively exceed mine. It’s a Formula 1 driver driving in a go-kart race. Even if you’re the worst grand prix rider of all time, you are still going to have more riding skills than someone who’s only previously topped out at 2nd.

The amateur rule needs to be overhauled because it allows for exactly this - the ‘pro-am’ who is well heeled enough to not need to get paid to ride, but is otherwise doing everything a professional is doing.

7 Likes
#47

I don’t think you can randomly determine amateur status based on someone being better than you.

that’s totally not a good rubric.

I say this as a generally sub-par “professional”.

6 Likes
#48

That’s not what I’m saying, but that’s fine.

I’m saying there is an objective point at which someone’s riding skills mean they don’t get to drop down to the bottom of the level chain, regardless of whether they get paid to ride or not. If dressage is about training, and training is about rider skill, then there has to come a point where you admit that you riding at training level is just 1. not necessary and 2. not particularly fair to others. There is an open division exactly for this situation. If the only distinguishing feature between you and someone who has to ride pro is that person gets paid to ride 4 horses a day while you support your own, then that is why the rule needs to be revamped. I can’t race a car in an intro level race even if I enter a 1998 Audi in a class of brand new corvettes, because I’ve been placed out of that level.

For the record, the same horse who won the training level also won the first level. That also shouldn’t be allowed, but it is, because rich people like it.

3 Likes
#49

Really? I know lots of people who cross enter their one single horse between training and first. Their one usually off breed horse and/or young horse. I have no issue with that at all.

You really are competing against an idealized score, you understand right, not the other rider. Unless you too are ribbon chasing.

5 Likes
#50

You’re still missing my point.

The subject of the thread is “is dressage declining?”

The answer is yes. One of the many reasons for that is the people going out and buying a $100k horse and flying it here and competing it at training/first level. Why is that a problem? because it leaves the little person literally nowhere to go. You have the choice of wasting a pile of money at a show in which you will, at best, get maybe a 70% while that horse gets a 70% for rolling out of the stall in the morning, green as grass, being ridden by a quasi amateur grand prix rider. There is zero incentive to participate in this scheme, which leads to lower numbers at shows and championships, which leads to less and less lesson income for trainers and eventually you get to the hunter/jumper model of things - one client with 15 horses.

This can be fixed by changing the amateur rules and the entry rules so that someone can’t do that and you’ve got to compete where you belong.

Insofar as the cross entered levels - this was specifically referring to regional championships. I do not believe you should get to compete for two levels at the same championship with the same horse. You should have to pick one, because you are contesting a championship.

There has long been an argument that amateur status should be determined by the level you ride at, and not the amount of money paid or spent. This will never change because the amateur rule specifically benefits people with a lot of money, who also write the rules. That was the case when the rule was created and it’s still the case now.

9 Likes
#51

I thought you were only allowed to enter the same horse/rider combo in adjacent classes at any one show, IE training and first, or 3rd and 4th, etc. And there’s a maximum number of tests you can do in one day.

As regards pros riding in training level, well if they are bringing along green horses, that’s what they do. They go back to the start with every new horse. Because dressage is judged on the horse not the rider.

Now pros on a straight shot to FEI might go in a 5 year old class. But around here we don’t have those, and the pros do training and first level etc. But the classes are split ammie/open so it’s not taking away ammie ribbons.

I expect there are ammies out there doing first level tests on PSG schoolmasters. There are ammies out there who drop more than my annual before tax income on a horse. That’s just a symptom of growing income inequality and nothing you can do about it.

But somehow I doubt there are loads of pro riders or even accomplishef ammies taking their finished horse in both Grand Prix and Training Level on the same day. Why would they even bother?

5 Likes
#52

I’ve said this elsewhere but I’ll say it again: I know very wealthy women who have imported FEI horses to ride training level. It rarely rarely works out to be an advantage. Because those horses are almost without exception sensitive and accomplished athletes, and the riders are often not. If the the rider is accomplished enough to successfully ride that horse, they aren’t showing training/first level.

7 Likes
#53

No, dressage as a dicipline is growing and has been for years. There are many more clinic options, and MUCH better education.

Showing?

Eh, yes and no. It depends. I think we have more flavors/choices of things- it’s not just dressage or jumping anymore. Ie- working equitation, WD, ranch horse, many breed and color shows, trail and obstacles, camping trips, eventing at lower levels, etc. I think more people want options and diversity in horses, more so than I recall 30 yrs ago.

There are more dressage schooling shows which takes from USDF, but that is not a bad thing in the big picture.

However, I have seen more and more non-WBs doing very well in USDF classes. If they could just offer a bit more universal judging and better facilities we would rebound in 5 yrs.

#54

I will say that as I read everyone’s comments about people importing horses (or looking for horses) of higher and higher quality and that those are required to win/place/do well, I find that this really doesn’t relate with my personal experience - it could be a matter of region, judges, or something else that I’m not taking into account.

I showed with a trainer in the Midwest before judges like Janet Foy, Axel Steiner, Linda Zang, and Gary Rockwell for the better part of ten years. Her rides were almost uniformly thoroughbreds (with a quarter horse thrown in for diversity) - I had a thoroughbred (who I had purchased as an event prospect). I can’t remember a single show where we were ever really blown out of the water by fancy imported horses, or warmbloods bred to the nines in North America. They certainly are around! But it never felt, to me, that I was doomed to place behind them (or they were a shoo-in for top scores).

It was especially apparent with the more experienced judges - the average class scores (looking at training and first level classes, where I spent most of my time) might be lower than I could find in a non-recognized show (or a smaller show) but the people who scored highest of the competitors were the ones that put together a complete, mindfully ridden, correct test.

I would strongly disagree with the commentary that imported horses are responsible for the decline of dressage (if indeed, it is), or even that the warmblood-import market is related to the soaring costs of purchasing/ownership. I think there’s a lot of components behind that (which may be worth another thread, I imagine it’d be a really interesting discussion) but not really fair to blame it for the decline in dressage.

Some of the factors that I think are more likely culprits: trainer accessibility. People have talked about dressage specific barns, which I think might be worth expanding on. Despite being a dressage rider, I’ve never been at a barn that was “a dressage barn”. I rode with a trainer who got started in eventing and switched to dressage later in life when her event prospect sustained an injury that made jumping impossible. I think we need more trainers like that - maybe not a fundamental “niche” dressage rider, but someone who has solid, fundamental basics and who can start students and horses correctly. Riding with her has always been so affordable (a training ride is $30, a lesson is $35 for 30 minutes, and they often run long) and it’s made it easy for her to introduce other students to dressage as well.

This might also be an answer to the issue of some people being priced out of the discipline. You don’t need a big name trainer/coach, or a big name barn, or a big name breed horse to go, ride a good test, get good scores, and feel like you accomplished what you came to do. I think that by the merit of how the horse industry markets itself though, the big names tend to get the majority (if not all) of the press so people fall into the idea that they need a dressage-only barn, trainer, dressage-bred horse, to succeed.

(Also: I would ask if winning a class or having the highest score is what succeeding in dressage is about. Is it fun to win? God, yes, absolutely! But I never felt like dressage was about comparing my ride to the person before me or the person after me - it was about me going out and putting down the best test I could, especially compared to prior tests I’ve ridden. Is that passé now?)

7 Likes
#55

No, dressage as a dicipline is growing. It just has taken different forms: we now have more competition for where to spend your weekends and effort- there have never been more clinics of various forms, more breeds participating, and more and more ages.

However, yes shows are suffering for a similar reason- I have 5-10 different choices of where to participate- (give or take depending on what kind of horse you have) such as breed classes, open classes/local 4h, ranch horse, WD, eventing, HJ A/B/C shows, trail challenges, biomechanics seminars, etc

Dressage is more $, more stress, and more rules than 90% of these. I myself have chosen to show in different sports even though I school dressage very very seriously 6 days a week and pay 1000/board per month. Why? it’s a better value and less stress.

Get the judges back on track, get some better footing, and the people will come back.

#56

I think it all depends on your criteria and definitions, and you could find evidence for both a yes and a no.

From my perspective, I’m more positive and hopeful about dressage in my area (Tucson) than I have been and see it improving. I see few trainers riding, as it seems to be mostly amateurs riding. Which I think is GREAT. If I had unlimited money I would without question sponsor one or more trainers to ride and show. But I think it’s great that hard working amateurs of limited funds are showing their own horses, not watching their trainers show horses they can’t but want to show.

My trainer is not big into showing, and so naturally attracts clients who aren’t as into showing. That suits me well, as I want to show a bit as report card check-ins, but just don’t love it. He doesn’t have the time to work with everyone who wants to work with him. Right now in Tucson I think we have more trainers with gold or silver medals than we have in the past, with multiple silver medalists who are partway to their golds - on horses they trained themselves.

We have regular clinicians coming to the area, and opportunities with both very classical and more modern showing types. In the last few years our show numbers have started rising at the Tucson shows, including a new summer series which maxes out in entries. In Tucson. In June and July. And as someone who frequently scribes, I feel like the riding we are seeing as a whole is improving based on what I hear judges saying. Fundamental basics seem to be there, and it’s more amateurs being less experienced, or just goofing, or a super tense day for a horse. It used to seem that judges had an impression a lot of people were not being taught what they needed to know for the levels they were showing. To me, that’s a huge positive.

Then there are trends - I see movement away from so much overbent, to instead more active hind ends, more folding through entire hind leg, more open throatlatches. It’s very nice to see, even as I constantly struggle with my own tendency to pull.

I’m also seeing riders move up the levels on their horses. For a while it seemed as if everyone was in Training or First. Of course now that’s still where the largest number of people are, but we see more 3rd, 4th, PSG. There were a ton of riders who hit PSG at the same time, and some of them are now showing Intermediare. Some are now showing that level only at bigger shows in CA, too. Or already on to GP.

2 Likes
#57

I agree with this. Think of the different world that some of us grew up in where horses were everywhere in the media, galloping through Westerns on T.V. and even featured in their own shows, My Friend Flicka, Fury, Mr. Ed, even Francis the Talking Mule. More people lived outside of urban communities than in. Now that is the opposite. It is not common to keep a horse in the backyard because our backyards are too small.

The effect of this is that the younger generation has no exposure to horses and there are no longer hoards of horse-crazy girls growing up, some of whom will be the next equestrian stars, and many others who will come into horse ownership in their 40s and 50s, facilitated by their larger disposable incomes. Couple this with the trends of land development with most people living in the horseless cities and suburbs means that the distance to available spaces to keep a horse are getting too far. The only remedy is great wealth so that you can afford the large property within driving distance of a job, and the wealth to support the expensive infrastructure for shows and horse ownership in general.

If you follow horse racing you know that this topic is a great concern in that area as well. Gambling, which pays for racing, is available in other forms and younger people have no sentimental attachment to horses.

4 Likes
#58

I don’t think dressage is declining in the show ring or the backyard. I also don’t think Baby Boomers aging out has an effect on anything. Baby Boomers have children and those are the upcoming junior/young riders.

I don’t know what qualifies as a ‘mecca’, but here in my area of NJ there are numerous stables with indoors. It’s true many of them are run by trainers that only take full training customers, but there are those that are just boarding barns too.

I don’t know anything about where the OP lives in Colorado, but I do not know of any stables here that have closed up shop. There are at least 5 boarding places with an indoor within 7 miles of me. Probably a few more.

I often wonder if there weren’t any more dressage shows, how many people would still buy a horse and train dressage. I I remember a time when we bought a horse only for the love the horse and riding.

#59

My concern is that the current crop of top riders seems to have zero interest in teaching or passing on their knowledge. They are all riding their personal horses in their private barns or flying to Europe to ride with Olympians, but when their trainers die off who will replace them? These ladies don’t want to teach up and comers. Their showday routine as described in a day-in-the-life article is wake up at 9am, swing by Sbux, grab a horse from a groom to warm up, and then sit in the stands watching while eating a salad until its their turn to ride.
Zero interest whatsoever in teaching anyone else or even training a horse, they just want to ride something that’s ready to show, get a ribbon, and go home. This is where all or our USEF funding is going to support international competitiveness worldwide, but really who is going to pass anything on to the next generation?

But maybe they have 4 year olds they also ride or a group of junior clients of which I am unaware.

#60

Obviously the training level horse and the grand prix horse are not the same horse so is your argument here that once you have another horse going GP, you shouldnt be allowed to show a training level horse ever?

11 Likes

Get your Digital Subscription here - only $21.95 / year

Subscribe here
See gift options

Sign up to our monthly newsletter!

By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.

Copyright © 2023 The Chronicle of the Horse