Is Frequent Urination/Parking Out - A Sign of Early PPID?

[TXKing99]

Hello,
I have a 12 yo Andalusian mare who starting urinating more frequently in April of this year. She had an internal exam and sonogram, everything seemed fine. At the same time we did labs and urinalysis. The only thing that showed to be off was that her urine was dilute. No infection, nothing else out of the ordinary.

On June 20th of this year I had her checked for PPID using the ACTH test. Her pre TRH response was 17.1. Her post response was 274. Her insulin was 23.45. The vet said she was marginal for PPID and we should retest in December/January.

Since them she has continued to park out under saddle as if she has to go and sometimes she eventually does go and sometimes she will urinate multiple times. In the last few weeks it seems to be getting worse. For example, when I attempt to ride, either bareback or saddled, (and by riding, I mean just walking around the arena for 20-30 minutes) she might park out 15 times and urinates twice (not a dribble, but a full amount). I can’t get her to walk around the entire arena a single time. When I work her on the ground she will usually stop and pee at least once, but doesn’t do the frequent parking out thing. I can’t watch her all day to see what she is doing in the pasture, but when I have observed her, I don’t see her parking out multiple times before urinating.

I contacted my vet again and because I randomly get a ride when she doesn’t pee, he doesn’t think the frequently urination and parking out is PPID related. If it was, he thinks it would be consistent.
I contacted a second vet and spoke to her on the phone. I shared the labs and PPID test results with her. She suggested I confine my horse for 24 hours and measure how much water she is actually drinking as that may give us a clue to what is going on.

Has anyone with a horse that has PPID experienced what I am describing with the parking out? Did putting your horse on Prascend/Pergolide help?

Could this be something else? What else would you check? The second vet suggested that I might take her in to be x-rayed for stones, but looking at the symptoms for kidney stones online, she doesn’t have any of them.

I know it is not ideal to test during the seasonal rise, but I hate to wait until December or January to retest for PPID.

Any suggestions or thoughts are appreciated.

BACKGROUND INFO:
She is on a forage diet: Timothy pellets, vermont blend, flax, copper/zinc hoof supplement, Immubiome Focus blend, iodized salt (1-2 tablesoons a day), Emcelle vit. E. She also gets 1 flake of alfafa in a hay net in her stall.
She is out 24/7 with a herd and has access to coastal hay and comes in 2x a day to eat.
She is barefoot, gets trimmed every 4 weeks and her feet are great, she has never had laminitis or been lame.
She has a fatty deposit on her neck, which was there when got her about 16 months ago.
She was born in Texas and as far as I now, has only lived in Texas
Sheds and sweats appropriately.
I’ve had a saddle fitter out and her saddle has been checked.
She is not losing weight or top line.

[Demerara_Stables]

I have a client horse that I swear has PPID (despite two tests that only show him at the high end of normal), in part because of frequent urination (once while grooming/tacking, once while under saddle, and once while cleaning him up in the cross ties). His insulin was out of whack (don’t remember the actual numbers), so we started him on insulinwise and no more urinating in the cross ties or under saddle. I have no idea if there are adverse effects to trying the insulinwise if they don’t really need it, but maybe something to ask your vet?

[TXKing99]

Thank you for sharing. I haven’t heard of Insulinwise but will check into it.

[SusanO]

I have a Cushings pony on Prascend and he does pee a lot for a little guy. He did one thing a few years ago that I thought was strange - he would devour a salt block in record time and would drink so much water he would soak his stall overnight. In the morning his water bucket would be bone dry and I would wonder if I had not filled it up the night before. But his stall was swimming in pee. Then I would watch him stand there for hours gnawing on his salt block. He finally quit that but still really eats a lot of salt. He does not sweat so it isn’t like he is losing salt sweating. I would say he pees a lot more than you would think for a small animal.

[Livie]

I had a mare that did this and it ended up being ulcers. The stretching out to pee in stressful situations is apparently an effort to relieve discomfort.

[hallie2]

maybe diabetes insipidus? rare in horses but it does occur. polyuria(freq urination), polydipsia (increased thirst/drinking) and dilute urine. https://www.vetequine.theclinics.com/article/S0749-0739(11)00003-4/abstract

[TXKing99]

The more I think about this, the more I think you could be on to something. She lost her best friend about 5-6 weeks ago and they were attached at the hip. She is somewhat of an outsider in the herd so she loved having a buddy. Maybe the loss of her friend caused her more stress than I realized. She isn’t losing weight, isn’t cinchy, eats well and poops like a champ. But maybe her tummy is bothering her and when we ride it is more uncomfortable. That would explain why I don’t see her acting that way in the pasture and why we get some days that seem a little better.

Was your mare actually peeing more too?

[Lusoluv]

I had a horse that would go through a 4lb salt lick in a few weeks, compared to my horse before her who would finish one in 3-4 months. She would also have a very wet stall. I board so it took me a few months before I put 2 and 2 together. I would ad 1-2 Tbsp loose salt to her feed and removed the block. Voila - no more overly wet stall.

[TXKing99]

Thanks! She doesn’t have a salt block, just gets loose salt in her food, 1-2 tablespoons a day.

[Janet]

Is she coming in season?

[Living_In_The_Sticks]

Yes. My 24 yr old ottb has PPID even with high normal ACTH. We will start prascend as soon as it shows up this week.

Long story short, was at the clinic for 6 days last August/September for a minor impaction caused by liver numbers in the toilet. Came home with increased thirst/urination & ravenous appetite. Liver numbers normal in 3 weeks & still odd behavior. If I was not fast enough with grain he would be stretching in his stall.

Treated for ulcers, prostride the hocks. Put on chasteberry because all bloodwork was normal. All was ok until 2 weeks into seasonal rise. Had to double the chasteberry. ACTH was still high normal. Asked vet to consult with Cornell endocrinology. Cornell advised he is most definitely positive for PPID due to response to chasteberry. There are other hormones that increase besides ACTH that can’t be measured. They recommend dropping chasteberry & trialing meds.

Jon the equine PPID group on facebook. There is a post with a ton of early symptoms to look for.

[Livie]

It was a strange one for me but my vet was not surprised. Mare would pee excessively in frequency and volume and at times she normally wouldn’t (never did undersaddle until during this period). Once she did a course of gastrogard it went away, Now I watch her like a hawk for any change in behavior urinating

[TXKing99]

I track everything on a spreadsheet. Initially it looked like it might related to her cycle, but after months of tracking it doesn’t appear to be the case.