Is Friesian a draft horse or warmblood?

[chicki]

Well…they are classified as light draft in your books ADW, but the parent registries don’t classify them as such…although I can see them fitting in with those other breeds listed.

So what are exactly the criterion and definition of draft, coldblooded and light draft??

How is a Gelderlander drafty at all? I recently saw one at a driving competition and that horse looked exactly like KWPN with higher knee action. They are still used in KWPN breeding…and know that registry does NOT accept draft…so??? I am just wondering…is there a unversal definition here or what?

I think of cold blooded just as I do of hot blooded… cold is lack of hot, and hot is lack of cold…and both should be pure strains of each. Maybe I am wrong tho… I dunno.

[Equibrit]

Warmblood horses are not “breeds”. They are crosses registered in open books. Friesians are a breed (closed book) and have been a breed longer than the warmblood crosses have been around. The Cleveland Bay breed provided a lot of foundation blood for said warmblood crosses.

[Renae]

@chicki;2225489

How is a Gelderlander drafty at all? I recently saw one at a driving competition and that horse looked exactly like KWPN with higher knee action. They are still used in KWPN breeding…and know that registry does NOT accept draft…so??? I am just wondering…is there a unversal definition here or what?

I classifiy a Gelderlander as a heavy harness horse. Back in the day when driving competitions were far more common there where heavy harness and fine harness divisions. I believe it had to do with the actual weight of the horse. But a heavy harness horse in America was likely to be a Hackney Horse or Cleveland Bay while a Fine Harness Horse was likely to be a Saddlebred. If you look at pictures of famous old socialite horse people, such as Loula Long Combs, you will see them pictured with their various heavy harness and fine harness horses.

An example of a Heavy Harness Horse from back in the day, Lord Brilliant http://www.hackney.ca/hhof_legacy.html

[Waterwitch]

@Equibrit;2225544

The Cleveland Bay breed provided a lot of foundation blood for said warmblood crosses.

As did the Irish Draught.

[chicki]

Well…everyone has their own definition of warmblood LOL. I would say there are warmblood breeds…and then warmblood types. You can’t say the Hanoverian is not a breed…?? And on top of that…what is a trakhener then? AKKK.:lol:

[holsteinersrock]

They are great for funerals and parades and entertainment, but hardly going to be in the Olympics any time soon. It’s a very spectacular draft horse.

Anna

[Thomas_1]

A friesian is a warm blood and its showy high knee action with good forward travel means it is extensively used as a light harness horse.

Same as a dutch warmblood.

Same as a lippezaner.

Same as a hackney horse.

Same as a gelderland.

Same as a hanovarian.

Same as a hungarian warm blood.

etc etc etc

[Black_Forest]

No. A Friesian is not a Warmblood because it is not a Warmblood breed.

Why does there seem such an overwhelming need to stuff such an amazing and totally unique breed into a pidgeon hole?

Surely EVERYONE knows what a Friesian is? Why does it have to be categorized?

The Friesians are a pure and old and separate breed much like a Lusitano (in that they are defined separate breeds) etc.

[Thomas_1]

[QUOTE=Black Forest;2226155]
No. A Friesian is not a Warmblood because it is not a Warmblood breed.

Why does there seem such an overwhelming need to stuff such an amazing and totally unique breed into a pidgeon hole?

.[/QUOTE] duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[chicki]

[B]They are great for funerals and parades and entertainment, but hardly going to be in the Olympics any time soon. It’s a very spectacular draft horse.

Anna[/B]

I love the opinion without the reasoning behind it. And thanks for the comment about the olympics…what does that have to do with anything:rolleyes:

[chicki]

You can’t tell me a hanoverian or trakehner is NOT a breed of horse. It may have a more open studbook, but it is still a breed. I just went to the german site and it clearly calls the hanoverian a BREED of horse. How else would you ID your horse? If you have a hanoverian and someone asks you “what breed is he/she” are you gonna say “ohhh it’s a cross with an open studbook”? LOL no…ALOT of breeds that no longer have open studbooks, once did ie quarter horse…it is still a breed of horse.

[Thomas_1]

I’m thinking that perhaps the definition of “cold blood” “warm blood” and “hot blood” must be different in the UK v USA

[Equibrit]

[QUOTE=chicki;2226715]
You can’t tell me a hanoverian or trakehner is NOT a breed of horse. It may have a more open studbook, but it is still a breed. I just went to the german site and it clearly calls the hanoverian a BREED of horse. How else would you ID your horse? If you have a hanoverian and someone asks you “what breed is he/she” are you gonna say “ohhh it’s a cross with an open studbook”? LOL no…ALOT of breeds that no longer have open studbooks, once did ie quarter horse…it is still a breed of horse.[/QUOTE]

You cannot change the facts. Whenever you can enter horses into more than one registry, they are a cross.

[chicki]

Thomas…that may be the case. What I don’t get it why it is so hard to figure out what is meant by COLD blood or hot blood(warmblood is another matter)…isn’t it sort of self explanitory? Ie you have a horse with no hot blood in it’s lineage…it’s a cold blood. You have a horse with no cold blood in it’s lineage and its a HOT blood. These are both just descriptions of TYPES are they not? And breeds can fall into any of these TYPE catagories? Then I think there are warmblood BREEDS and warmblood TYPES…but either way…a friesian horse is neither a hot nor a cold blood.

From what I understand…Heavy drafts breeds are the only horses that have pretty much nil hot blood in them, Ie Draft is a cold blood and therefor friesians are not drafts.

Thats my logic anyways.

Here are some definitions that I found…obviously they aren’t the authority but they make sense to me:
http://www.horseforsale.ca/breeds/coldBlood.cfm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse#Hot_bloods.2C_warm_bloods.2C_and_cold_bloods

[Black_Forest]

[QUOTE=Thomas_1;2226731]
I’m thinking that perhaps the definition of “cold blood” “warm blood” and “hot blood” must be different in the UK v USA[/QUOTE]

I think the problem is that you do not understand even most VAGUELY what a WARMBLOOD is - this has nothing to do with UK or England or Germany for that matter. You mention Hackneys in your last post - NOWHERE in England is a Hackney considered a Warmblood (nowhere anywhere in the world)

So maybe you should go and find out what a Warmblood actually is before you screech “DUUUHHHH” !

A Hackney a Warmblood :winkgrin: :winkgrin:

That’s the best joke I have heard this year

[chicki]

You cannot change the facts. Whenever you can enter horses into more than one registry they are a cross.

I was simply telling you how they are classified by the breeding authority on that studbook. Anyways…you can enter arabs and tbs into different registries,…I don’t consider them crosses. A horses breed is what it is registered as. I don’t there there is any definition of horse breed that states: breeds are only those which have a closed studbook".

[Auventera_Two]

@chicki;2226715

You can’t tell me a hanoverian or trakehner is NOT a breed of horse. It may have a more open studbook, but it is still a breed. I just went to the german site and it clearly calls the hanoverian a BREED of horse. How else would you ID your horse? If you have a hanoverian and someone asks you “what breed is he/she” are you gonna say “ohhh it’s a cross with an open studbook”? LOL no…ALOT of breeds that no longer have open studbooks, once did ie quarter horse…it is still a breed of horse.

“Hanoverian” or “Trakhener” is the BREED. “Warmblood” is the TYPE. It’s like someone asking you what you drive to work every day and you say - a truck. Well, okay, what KIND of truck? Chevy, Ford, Toyota? You can say you own a Warmblood, and that’s the TYPE. But the breed would be Hano, Oldenburg, Dutch, etc. But yes, all Warmbloods are basically the same thing with just different studbooks. Like the different “lines” of the Quarter Horse, where you can have everything from a 4 foot jumper to a working ranch horse to a race horse.

And for what it’s worth - I have always considered Friesans to be a light, cold blooded, draft horse, primarily used for carriage. Having the designation “draft” doesn’t have to mean pulling a plow.

[chicki]

Black forest…can you tell us the universally accepted defintion of warmblood?

[chicki]

“Hanoverian” or “Trakhener” is the BREED. “Warmblood” is the TYPE. It’s like someone asking you what you drive to work every day and you say - a truck. Well, okay, what KIND of truck? Chevy, Ford, Toyota? You can say you own a Warmblood, and that’s the TYPE. But the breed would be Hano, Oldenburg, Dutch, etc. But yes, all Warmbloods are basically the same thing with just different studbooks. Like the different “lines” of the Quarter Horse, where you can have everything from a 4 foot jumper to a working ranch horse to a race horse.

Yeah…that’s pretty much how I see it too…makes the most sense anyways.

[Auventera_Two]

@Equibrit;2226747

You cannot change the facts. Whenever you can enter horses into more than one registry, they are a cross.

That’s not true at all. With warmbloods, you can have a purebred, lets say, Hanoverian, but that horse can be presented, and approved by the Oldenburg registry if he/she meets the requirements of that registry.

With Quarter Horses, you could have a purebred QH but register it with the IBHA if it is a Buckskin or Dun. Doesn’t make a cross, just makes it eligible for registration with a 2nd registry because it was able to meet the qualifications set by that governing body.