Is it ever OK to leave a vet with part of the bill...

[ihearttbs]

I’m really torn about this and want people’s advice. Let me start by saying that as a horse owner, I have always paid every single one of my bills even when they were huge financial hardships for me as a student making less than 20,000 a year.

My gelding this year got bitten by another, very aggressive horse in turnout. The bite abscessed on his withers and became very difficult to treat. I ended up paying $1800 in vet bills to one vet who did not even fix the problem. Switched to a different vet, paid about $300, problem is fixed. However, I technically still owe the first vet $100 (I paid the rest of the balance). I so far have refused to pay it because of the following reasons- but I want to know if other people think this is a bad move. Here are the reasons:

1. vet promised he would come out to check on my horse for free since he comes to a farm across the street 3 days a week. He ended up charging me farm calls for these visits on which he did nothing.

2. vet had me flushing the wound with pure hydrogen peroxide. 2nd vet told me that this is actually really bad for the healing of the wound after the first few days. Was very painful for my gelding, and ended up making him very difficult to treat even when I switched to a sterile salt water flushing solution (he was anticipating pain).

3. despite the fact that he knows I’m a student and short on cash (and usually try to buy medication cheaper from elsewhere), he kept bundling in expensive supplies that I could’ve gotten for less elsewhere. I didn’t look through the bills carefully before writing a check because I was very flustered at the time.

4. Vet charged me for a culture of the wound, but didn’t send me the results until 2 months later, and actually took the culture after already starting the horse on antibiotics, which to me is just dumb.

5. Instead of letting me give the exceed antibiotic shots myself, the vet charged farm calls (without my express permission or knowledge) to go out and give the antibiotic shots to my horse when I could have done so myself.

All in all, I’m just very upset, especially as the vet kept saying things like he was trying to help me out/etc. financially. I have talked to other people in my area about this vet and he apparently has a bad reputation for not having fixed prices and gouging prices based on the barn you keep your horse at.

[Tiffani_B]

In the past when I’ve gotten poor service and/or high bills that I didn’t authorize, I’ve paid what I thought was acceptable/what I approved and included a letter outlining why I would not be paying the remainder. Of course, you run the risk of the vet never working on your horse again, but if you don’t want to use them in the future, you might not care.

[GoForAGallop]

Regardless of everything, at this point in time, I am not sure I would burn a bridge with a vet over $100.

Issues with the bill should have been brought up immediately, not after you have already paid the majority.

[AKB]

If you think you will ever need this vet or any other vet from his practice in an emergency, I would pay the bill.

Did you tell the vet that you were giving the Excede injections yourself and make arrangements to have the Excede available at the right time? Did you have the supplies needed on hand whenever the vet came by so he knew you didn’t need his supplies?

When I treat children, I often take a wound culture if an infection is not responding to the antibiotic that has been prescribed. I don’t know why you think it is “dumb” to do a culture when an infection doesn’t respond to the first antibiotic. Without a culture, it can be hard to figure out which antibiotic is the most likely to work.

At least in people, hydrogen peroxide is controversial. Some MDs use it regularly on wounds; others believe it is caustic and ineffective. Most people don’t complain that it is particularly painful.

Did you have an arrangement with the vet that he would only be paid if the wound healed quickly and uneventfully? With people, you pay even if the person has a long and complicated recovery. The personal injury lawyers who advertise on late night TV take cases on contingency, but most other professionals are paid no matter what the outcome.

Sorry to be hard on you, but I think you did not communicate what you wanted to the vet. I also think you had unreasonable expectations.

[Halt_Near_X]

@ihearttbs;7394208

4. Vet charged me for a culture of the wound, but didn’t send me the results until 2 months later, and actually took the culture after already starting the horse on antibiotics, which to me is just dumb.

This one depends. We cultured my pony several times after he went on antibiotics, because he was not responding as expected. We thought maybe the culture or sensitivity on the first test was wrong, and then we were trying to verify if an alternate antibiotic would work when it was clear the first one simply wasn’t.

For the rest of it – the best you can do is to call up his practice and speak to his billing person to see if you can get it written off.

They may not, because you didn’t question the supplies/services when he was giving them or when you got the bills, and you have been paying on them all along as if you agreed with them.

But if you are professional and unemotional about it, they may work with you.

[staceyk]

My .02

Here is my .02…

IMHO at this point, you should pay the rest.

If there were problems with the vet throwing in charges you did not expect, did you confront him at the first incident? Did you explain that you need to approve all procedures? If you had, and he still persisted, you would certainly be within your rights to go through the bill, circle the items that were not approved, and subtract them from your payment.

To arbitrarily choose the last $100 seems a little more spite that righteous.

Other points
– I appreciate that you got a vet to help your horse (awful-sounding wound!).
–Your financial situation is your own concern and responsibility. You need to be VERY CLEAR and to REINFORCE your limitations with professionals you work with. Any chance this could have been a lapse in communication on your part? Only you will know the answer to this.
– The second vet may have been more successful due to the point in the healing process, not because he or she was more competent.
– The fact that your horse did not get better immediately does not really change what you owe. Veterinary work is not really outcome-based.

Good for you for paying this very large bill nearly off. I think the fact that you’re uncertain if it is right to let it go unpaid is legitimate moral discomfort. Pay this one off, and next time, be a harda$$ :-).

Best of luck.

[mep0726]

I will just reiterate what others have said in that if you think you might want/need this vet (or anyone else in their practice) to work on your horse again, pay the bill. This includes a middle-of-the-night colic call when you can’t get a hold of another vet.

As a poor student myself, I understand wanting to cut costs. However, sometimes it is easier to pay a surcharge to have the needed supplies (bandaging, medication, etc.) right then instead of getting them the next day or in a few days. Those 24 - 72 hours could make a huge difference in treatment duration and prognosis. That’s also the reason why I try to make sure I have a fully stocked first aid kit at all times, in order to prevent those “must have a syringe and needle at 2 AM” type deals. (Been there, done that – not fun!)

As far as farm calls charged and what not, it might be helpful to talk to his accounts manager. Sometimes farm calls are automatically added onto the bill by the accounts manager or office staff, and then the vet just forgot to remove the charge. However, it is hard to dispute a bill after you have already paid the majority of it.

If it were me, I would just pay the $100 and keep in mind that if/when you use these vet again, you need to be more clear about your finances to him (and look over any bills before you pay them!). However, if paying the $100 will be a financial hardship for you, it might be worth a call to the vet or his accounts manager to see if they could waive the remainder – just don’t expect the vet to be willing to drop everything he’s doing to come out to your farm the next time you need him.

[Chief2]

I would call the office manager, ask to speak with the vet, and go from there. Perhaps you can get him to waive part or all of the bill. If not, maybe they will accept low payments. A friend of mine used to stop by the office each week with $10 until the bill was paid off, and that was fine.

[2tempe]

There were two times that I did not pay the vet: The first was when I asked for health papers to take horse to Florida. Shipper shows up, says papers wont work and explains why. I had to contact a different vet to get papers as mine wasn’t available. I did not pay first vet because they knew it was a problem when I explained, and couldn’t get there any time soon to fix.
Same vet a couple years later billed me for shots for my horse done in October, even though horse had moved south in August (???).

Here’s the deal, though. If you believe you were overcharged - the right thing to do is talk to vet and say “here’s what I’m not paying and why”. In a timely fashion. Then be prepared to switch vets if necessary. To have 6 or so reasons why you don’t want to pay the last $100 of a bill that was close to $2000 is not logical. At this point, use it as a learning experience as to the importance of clear communications w/ your vet - in writing if necessary to delineate who will do what. IF you believe the vet is not a good vet, or that things have really been handled incorrectly, then seriously consider a switch of vets.

[fire_911medic]

I’m sorry you have experienced this. However, I, like most of the others on here would advise against the refusal to pay all but $100 of the bill for the following reasons :

1. If the vet did the work, then you owe him. Period, end of story. It’s like saying I don’t like the way you did my driveway, but I’m only going to pay you almost all of it without having a discussion with the worker about what the issue is.

2. You didn’t bring it to the vet’s attention that first, you were capable of doing the vaccinations yourself, and that you didn’t bring it to his attention initially after the bill was received that contained the additional billing you thought you shouldn’t receive.

3. You chose to pay almost all of the bill before discussing the fact that the vet had performed services beyond what you thought he should.

4. Did you tell the vet what you were capable of doing yourself and also what your financial limits were ? There is NO shame in telling a vet what your limits are. Most appreciate that, and if something is absolutely needed to make the horse 100% after that, they will work with you regarding payment. But telling them what your limits are is just responsible.

5. As someone previously stated, payment is not based on outcome. Especially if things or disagreements weren’t discussed with either the vet or his billing staff prior to and certainly at the point that almost all the amount was paid. To me that just doesn’t seem right. If it had been turned into insurance, they still would have paid, and no different than a human illness, you would still be expected to pay for the expenses regardless of outcome.

Granted hind sight is 20/20, but you first should evaluate each bill as it comes in. That’s first thing I do and then go over any questionable charges with their billing person for validity and go from there. Once I was assessed an emergency charge in addition to a farm call during regular hours. My vet never charges me a farm call (as I usually just tell him swing by when you are out this way - is usually two or three times a week) as he can easily work me in his schedule. I get a routine farm call if I need him off hours or on a holiday. Had a horse that split his face open requiring stitches on fourth of July and wanted to validate that yes I should be charged both (it was what it was, but wanted to make sure I was being charged both as he said it was a regular farm call). The billing person said she would check with him and get back with me and sure enough should have been a basic farm call of $35. No biggie, got a corrected bill and immediately paid.

Another time, had a foal go into the clinic. It was a high stress time for sure, but I knew I had to be practical and didn’t want to leave them in a situation where they could potentially not be paid. I told them immediately what my financial limit was and informed them what I was capable of doing once/if he came home. Also told them exactly what I was capable of spending for care. Told them if it was going to exceed that they needed to consult with me as well as must haves and nice to haves would need to be approved through me. Again, I just think that is responsible ownership and professionalism. Unfortunately ended badly, though I know they gave it their all, but the foal was just too far gone. An 1800 bill later, I promptly paid all of it.

I’m glad your guy is feeling better, but I think to continue a good reputation as well as the fact you haven’t discussed the situation with the vet, you should pay the remainder. I don’t know if you have access to a large amount of vets in the area or not, but you may need the vet in an emergency, and either way you don’t want a reputation of not paying your bills regardless of reason. If you were considering witholding partial payment, should have been discussed when first bill was received, not long after and payments had been made.

[Prime_Time_Rider]

I once had a vet treat my horse for misdiagnosed colic for 5 days staight. Other than refusing to eat, my horse displayed no signs of colic I finally confronted the vet and asked why he was continuing to treat my horse for colic when she wasn’t improving (or deteriorating). I finally asked another vet to exam my horse, who quickly diagnosed my hrse as having a sore throat!

My horse had major medical, so I submitted the claim (which was well over $1,000) to my horse insurance claims adjuster. The horse insurance paid a portion, butnot the entire amount of the bill. When I contacted the vet’s office and asked about a reduction in the bill since I had been charged over $1,000 to treat a condition that my horse didn’t have, the vet refused. Bottom line, I paid the vet bill but never used that vet again.

The time to have raised concern about the vet bill was when you received in the mail, not much later. Withholding $100 doesn’t make sense, and your vet can trah your credit for that.

[Prime_Time_Rider]

I once had a vet treat my horse for misdiagnosed colic for 5 days staight. Other than refusing to eat, my horse displayed no signs of colic I finally confronted the vet and asked why he was continuing to treat my horse for colic when she wasn’t improving (or deteriorating). I finally asked another vet to exam my horse, who quickly diagnosed my hrse as having a sore throat!

My horse had major medical, so I submitted the claim (which was well over $1,000) to my horse insurance claims adjuster. The horse insurance paid a portion, butnot the entire amount of the bill. When I contacted the vet’s office and asked about a reduction in the bill since I had been charged over $1,000 to treat a condition that my horse didn’t have, the vet refused. Bottom line, I paid the vet bill but never used that vet again.

The time to have raised concern about the vet bill was when you received in the mail, not much later. Withholding $100 doesn’t make sense, and your vet can trah your credit for that.

[Texarkana]

My anecdote on why you shouldn’t just walk away from the bill, even though that’s not even what happened to me!

When I was just out of college, I moved one of my re-sale projects to a different barn from where I regularly boarded. Horse came in lame one day. BO called me and mentioned her vet was already coming out later that day if I wanted him to look at my horse. I had never met or used this vet, but I was already at work, so I agreed.

I arrive at the barn after work to find several tubs of holistic hoof supplements, a bottle of bute, and a $300 bill on my tack trunk. Horse had an abscess. I was charged $150 for the shared farm call/exam/wrap with ichthamol, and another $150 for bute and supplements I didn’t ask for or need. I was more than a little miffed.

I called the vet and told him he could take the supplements and bute back-- I did not need them and would not pay for them. He agreed and said he’d pick them up next time he was at the barn, I paid the remainder of the balance, and I thought all was done… never saw or heard from that vet again.

Fast forward 6.5 years. I had sold said horse and later moved to a different state. I get a collections notice in the mail for an unpaid balance to the old vet. I call the collections company to dispute it, they tell me to call the vet.

Come to find out, the vet had died about a year prior. His wife was going through his books and going after any unpaid accounts. For whatever reason, he had left my account status as past due/unpaid for the bute and supplements. So she sent me to collections for their cost plus 6 years interest.

The wife was a royal pain to try to reason with, even when I explained the situation. The whole thing was just ugly. I ended up bitterly paying the bill to avoid ruining my credit since I really didn’t want to deal with taking legal action. It still burns me to think about it, though!

[DesignerLabel]

Call the vet’s office and explain why you don’t feel you owe the charge. If they agree to waive it, may sure they give you something in writing stating the bill is satisfied.

If they don’t agree, you will probably find a collection on your credit at best, or he could take you to small claims court, and you’d possibly be responsible for court costs as well.

[Laurierace]

It is not worth burning any bridges for $100 in my opinion, justified or not.

[Chall]

Re: being charged farm visits when the vet “didn’t do anything”.
Vets and doctors do get to charge for checking a patient.
They don’t have to “do” anything physically, but a visual, a hand on the body, look at weight, bright eyes, stance attitude, visual confirmation that wound is “normal” etc etc.
I would object if vet charged but didnt look at the horse ( didnt visit the horse at all).

[toady123]

As others have said, the time to discuss your concerns or disagreements would have been at the time the vet was treating and billing, not now. You can’t just not pay because you don’t want to.

Given how much you have paid already another $100 isn’t much. Pay it and let this be a lesson to ask questions when in these situations - that is your absolute right as a client!

[SLW]

Important things get lost in communication- like the idea the vet would not charge a FC fee for peeking at the progress of your horse’s healing. To him he did not charge an exam fee but he did bill the FC fee so in his eyes he gave you a break.

I don’t know that leaving you with supplies to treat the wound was a bad thing but yes, the markup on those things is 100%. In hindsight if you had read the invoices you could have asked him to stop leaving the supplies so that you could purchase them elsewhere.

I would pay the balance due to the original vet and leave it at that. You already have a new vet to treat your horse so build on that relationship and just pray that your new vet doesn’t use your old vet to handle emergencies if he is out of town. That way you don’t have to use him again.

Vet’s are free spirits and can bill at the rate they want or need based on anything. A pain in the ass fee can be added to an account and likewise, a bit of charity can reduce fees. The nanno second you feel like your vet is billing you like a “pain in the ass” you need to reevaluate the relationship. Are you being unreal or is he in need of revenue??

[merrygoround]

I would pay that last $100, and then as you have already done, WALK away. If in the future you need to call him, I would try to pay on the spot. or if impossible exam all bills and deal with possible problems immediately.

I have paid on the spot with one vet who I like very much because the office invariably did expensive add-ons.

[subk]

Pay the bill. I predict that in the future you will have multiple opportunities to steer business away from his practice in the way of a poor review or lack of recommendation. This has a much more damaging effect on his practice than the loss of $100 in non-payment. You are legally obligated to pay the bill at this point as you didn’t address your concerns at an appropriate time. Be the better person, stay on the moral high ground and your negative reviews will have more credence when the time comes.