Is overworking the horse common OR what is wrong with me?

[Alagirl]

hmmm, I always considered it to be my duty to ride at least an hour, especially when the horse is stalled 24/7.

However, I am lazy so I don’t think I ever accomplished that very well.

As to the ‘walk breaks’ I guess that is suggesting the walk is not an element itself. One instructor used to tell us ‘The horse is getting a breather, but we are still working’

Then again, I find riding in in circles for 3 hours incredible mind numbing…(that’s why I can’t get into stock car racing…traveling 500 miles to end up where you started ;)) and many things can be worked on on the trail.

[Dressage_Art]

[QUOTE=MsM;4090096]
From the story written, my concerns would be more about the type of training/work and the apparent “one size fits all” situation.
There is a big difference between riding for condition and training, even in the same ride. If the ride is intensely focussed every day on developing new skills the whole time, I believe that is too much work for a youngster and really for any horse. If much of that time is spent in work that is already comfortable for the horse and is building muscle, muscle memory and wind then I find it more appropriate. Dont know that I would send a 3 year old, but possibly a 4 year old already with some base. There is so much more about the way the training is conducted and the condition and the attitude of the animals to consider.
Going along with that - I would be hesitant if the “trainer” appeared to have a recipe type formula that was applied the same way to every horse. Training needs to individualized and the trainer needs to be willing to hop off after an important training breakthrough and to adjust the time and intensity based upon the horse’s reactions. Yes, fitness needs to be built and the horse needs to be worked past its comfort zone at times, but insisting that any horse fit the mold would be a red flag to me.[/QUOTE]
nicely put MsM

[stuge]

Yeah, a 2+hour workout more days than not is too much for any level any age horse BUT most BNT, upper level trainers start riding/schooling the horse twice a day once it reaches the upper levels, depending on the horse. You can’t school GP everyday but the horse needs to be fit enough to do grand prix. My trainer starts working the hrose twice a day at about 4th level but she does incorporate hill work and schooling in the fields and long lining into that so it isn’t twice a day 5-6 days a week in the arena. I’ve never sat there and timed her schooling sessions but at least one of those workouts seem to be about 45-60 minutes though. If you are showing your horse needs to be fit enough for the 2 warmups plus the 2 test (assuming you do two tests a day) so I just don’t see how you can do that in 30 minute rides, 3-4 times a week!

I’ve often wondered if my horse would benefit more from two 30-minute workouts than one 1-hour workout. He’s 19 yrs old though, very often our warmups are 15 minutes long!

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

[QUOTE=mbm;4088284]
my trainers motto is a short no-nonsense workout 6 days/week.

i personally do 5 days/week - and depending on where the horse is some of that will be lunging over cavelletti’s etc to build topline etc. if the horse is green or coming back from injury i might do every other day lunging for a few weeks and build up from there.

my personal experience has been that many “popular” show barns over work their horses and end up with many horse who got “cast in their stalls”

if you are in doubt you could always get the klimke book whch lays out training regimes which are quite sensible and effective.[/QUOTE]

Small but relevant hijack–Which Klimke book are you referring to–just curious, as I see there are several.

[mbm]

basic training of the young horse.

[LilyandBaron]

I know this is an older post, but I was searching because I had this issue at my barn this weekend - had a friend ride, and had to tell her to stop riding as my horse was getting tired and frustrated. I want to add something that I think too many riders ignore - simple psychology and exercise physiology. I think when you are working a horse that knows his job - 30-40 minutes or longer of work is fair, if you warm up, cool down, etc, and listen to your horse - if he starts balking more at the end of the session, it’s a sign he’s tired and sore. When something is a NEW task and they are learning, learning theory proves you have about a 20 minute window of opportunity. So, when you are asking for something new, don’t drill on it. I do conditioning for cardio fitness by doing things we know, and have a shorter session when we are working on a new task. I build up those sessions as the new task becomes ingrained. Plus, this adds variety to the rides in the arena - they are different lengths with different challenges.
So, learning theory dictates that new, complicated tasks should be taught in short sessions, with a nice reward for successful efforts (trying at first, working toward perfection always). As far as physical issues for exercise - I’ve done competitive 5Ks myself, and I’ve done figure competitions (weight lifting without getting too bulky). I worked with top trainers for people in both endeavors, and I know there are studies on horse conditioning as well. If I had a heavy weight lifting day, I needed 24-48 hours AT LEAST before I worked those muscles again. So asking our horses to collect every day is just flat wrong. If you want to build strength, it’s fine to have a tough workout session - with warmup, cool down, etc. BUT they have to recover!!! For cardio, I like interval training - 5-7 minutes of good forward work, not collected, but in a contact, then a rest. That for 20-30 minutes is good conditioning. The longer days - a nice easy trail or trot, no frame, just moving - it’s called a recovery run for people. And our horses do not need marathon training unless we do endurance or eventing - dressage tests last 8 minutes, and doing a hunter or jumper course doesn’t take that long either, but takes dynamic strength. So focus more on the strength training and so-called plyometrics (bursts of energy, so jumping or short gallops along the arena - like people doing drills). As long as you respect the muscle recovery time and the limits of how long a horse can focus on tough tasks and learn, you should be fine. Trust your gut- and yes, you can absolutely progress without working an hour 6 days a week, but you do need to build muscle to sustain collection for at least 10 minutes - to get through a test. So as your horse matures, work harder (smarter), not longer.

[meupatdoes]

I am currently in the process of trying to get a horse that can now “do the tricks” at 2nd/3rd truly strong enough to ride those levels well.

He goes about an hour 5-6 days a week.

After a walk warm-up he does about ten minutes of loose trot with walk transitions and stretchy circles built in,

then he does some lateral work at the walk,

then he does some lateral work at the trot (with some extended walk diagonals for quick breaks, and frequent stretchy trot circles at the ends of the arena),

then he get a brief loose-rein walk,

then he does some trot/walk transitions into the canter work,

then we work on developing smaller circles at the canter, canter/trot and canter/walk transitions and counter canter (with some extended walk diagonals built in to catch his breath)

then he finishes with some more loose trot work.

One or two days a week depending on how hard he has been working or how difficult the work has been for him he gets a mental health day where we WTC and hop over some small jumps in the hunt saddle (takes 15 min tops) and then head to the hills to do an hour+ trail ride on terrain that includes grass, gravel and pavement, mostly at the walk.

He is definitely fit in both muscle and wind but I am also trying to develop the tendons and ligaments gradually as somebody else has mentioned.

The four year old is the type that takes forever to build up muscle and strength so he does 30-45 minutes and not much intensity. Also trail rides. He is primarily in a young hunter program at the moment so he trots and canters lightly on the bridle and works on straight lines, basic transitions, hopping over little jumps and lead changes over a pole.

[retrofit]

less is more

I’m starting to think that most people work their horses harder than necessary.

I tend to ride about 25-30 minutes, including walking warmup & cooldown. So the “work” part is really only 15-20 minutes. I keep it active & effective and I try my best to use the arena efficiently. My horses progress and get fitter & stronger at no slower a rate than anyone else’s. I do arena work 4-5 days/week and weather permitting, a nice walking hack on the hills once/week. (Weather has not been permitting lately, unfortunately.)

I started this lighter program for a big horse with several previous leg injuries, but my younger horse also seems to stay mentally fresher & more willing on a lighter schedule too - and to be honest it makes it easier for me to get 2 horses worked after my fulltime job & mucking stalls.

[Thomas_1]

Morehorses,

Prepare to be shocked…

Mine are exercised or worked or used on lessons 5 days a week as a minimum and 2 hours minimum.

If something isn’t required for lessons, then my staff have to get it out or school it to keep it fit and in work.

Ideally I prefer them to do between 4 and 6 hours a day of varied activity, so a good mix of schooling and riding out with interval cardio vascular fast work.

I happen to think that far too many horses do wayyyyyy too little.

Underlying assumptions too little work =

weak musculature and supportive structures
poor recovery rates
lack of stamina
more prone to injury
bad behaviour - boredom and stress induced conditions more prevelant

However I tend not to start them too young doing a great deal and in particular for mine that means not a mass of going round in circles in an arena before they’re reasonably well balanced. So my arena is big… driving arena size. No tight or 20 metre circles for youngsters. The programme is varied and mixed in terms of what they do and the area they’re riding on. So they’ll be out hacking more than in an arena in the early period.

Mixed in terms of paces so walk, trot and canter. Gradually and steadily building duration and repetition over time.

[nadasy]

How long do regular workouts last?
an hour (sometimes it’s 25/30 min tops, but on an average about an hour, seldom over)

Broken down into 10/15 min of warm up at walk-stretching, working, medium, free, on the aids, marching along, some lateral and figures then balance of time in trot with transitions, figures, hills, elevated trotting poles, transitions within gait and to walk, halt etc., then canter work but lots of transitions still in and out of trot and walk. Frequent walk breaks when necessary but on longer connection, and stretching, and not slogging along unattended on a floppy rein, ending with stretching at trot and walk around the big field for about 10 min keeping balanced and rhythmic tempo-not fast.

All of the trot and canter work depends on the footing in the grass arena and in the log field, and the big field and dirt road. I can’t control the weather and can only have so much influence over the footing. This isn’t the easiest place to work, but most of the year-June-early November it’s really fine.

How many days a week?
5 to 6 (again depends on weather).

How hard/long are your lessons?
About an hour. We work with breaks like I do when I’m on my own, but we work more on areas which require a good set of eyes on the ground, and with my coach who gives us the right kind of homework between lessons and challenges us because it’s too difficult to be rider/coach/teacher/critic on my own. This is here at home, or in rainy weather, I go to a friends indoor about 45 min away where she gives both of us individual lessons inside and we work more on connecting bits of tests and things that are a bit more involved because we have an actual area to work in with no distractions like we have at home.

I could not progress as efficiently without this. It’s way too easy to slip into bad habits (read-trying to chew gum and walk at the same time-not on the horse :D).

Do you take walk breaks?
Absolutely, sometimes we will stand and discuss, and sometimes we will be walking and stretching, but we are still working. Like Thomas, I agree that many horses do way too little. Of course it is the quality and not quantity in terms of time. It’s an HOUR out of 24 that we’re asking them to work, and sometimes the time is shorter depending on what we are working on.

What are your goals (are you actively trying to build stamina)?
To have a healthy, sound, fit and conditioned horse that enjoys what we do. Some days we walk out in the big field 300 acres, with hills. We trot, we canter, this is our LD work. This also depends on whether or not they planted corn or alfalfa (we are left nice 12’ lanes to use and don’t trample the crops).

What is your rule of thumb for young horses vs. mature horses?
It depends on the horse. Varies by individual. I prefer to start a bit later with the youngsters and give them a solid foundation and build on that. Some of them have better natural balance, mentally and physically than others. I don’t want them burning out or having meltdowns, but at the same time, I really try to pay attention to them after the ride as well as during to keep their attention.
Older horses still need to be kept fit and in condition as well. Mine enjoyed a regular program to keep them sound and happy, and depending on what they were doing, we kept it fairly limited in time, preferring not to overdo on anything. I consider older horses of mine over 20, that had a career and are now in a kind of semi semi retirement. My UL event horse retired sound at 19 and at 23/24 got his Dover A/A medal and was in the mid 60’s in 4th level. I’ve had some retire to foxhunting, and some to broodmares, it just depends on the horse.

How/when do you determine when to vary ride length and difficulty?

I think you have to be responsible as a rider to know when enough is enough and when it’s not going to ‘alter the fate of nations’ if you stop when you do because that day whatever is going on just isn’t working. Ending on a good note always made more sense to me than - pressing beyond the point of exhaustion and no return.

There are SO MANY variables with individual situations and people with their horses. At the end of the day, you can take polls, ask opinions, research until your eyeballs fall out, with things like this; but basically listening to your gut and your horse and observing what works and what doesn’t with other plans, and being brutally honest will show you the way.

I think you certainly are on the right track.

[samd]

I am a working student for a barn in my area and generally the program we follow with any horse is 5 days a week of work. Varying from a lesson with the owner, 30-45 min. ride under one of us, or a trail ride. All of the training horses get trail ridden at least one day a week. We have 100 acres that we can trail ride on that is also owned by the barn owner.

Now my horse who is working roughly 2nd level. Starting to school 3rd. I generally ride her on my own or in a lesson on Tuesdays, Lesson Weds., Thurs. trail ride or light easy ride(15 or so mins.), Fri. lesson or trail ride., Sat. she has off, Sun. Either school in arena or trail ride, Mon. off.

Lessons are usually 30-60mins. depending on the demnand of work being done.(i.e. collection). Trail rides vary from 20-60 mins. and degree of difficulty varies. I usually only take her out on a trail one day a week so the days were its either or its if I haven’t taken her out on a trail ride yet.

This is the same program that all the horses follow no matter whether they are working training level or Grand Prix.

[shawnee_Acres]

I actually think we do not work our horses enough these days, leading to a lack of fitness and elasticity in the tendons and ligaments and therefore causing mroe breakdowns. When I was young, in the 70’s we worked the HECK out of the horses. Two to three hours of serious riding was not uncommon, and I really never had any soundness issues. Of course you woul;dn’t do that with a horse coming abck into work, or a youngster, but I do think we “baby” our horses far too much these days

[JRG]

I will add myself to the list of people that don’t think some horses are worked or in condition enough.

I ride a least an hour a day for 6 days a week. My horse is not stressed nor is he out of shape. I didn’t start out that schedual but worked up to it and maintain it.

For the record I believe that you can’t keep moving up the levels (if that is the goal) on a horse that is worked infrequently and not consistantly. It is not fair to the animal. I am a firm believer in giving the animal all the tools necessary to succeed. I also believe that as you move to the upper levels strength, elasticity and stamina are intertwined.

It is far more humane to work up and maintain a certain level of fitness then to tax a horse one particular day when the ground work has not been laid. jmho

[esdressage]

I haven’t read all the replies but I find this topic interesting…

The length of the workout and whether there are walk breaks involved is far less the issue than how the horse is brought to his level of fitness. Horses (and people) can become tremendously fit, healthy, without injuries or undue stress and quite happy if they’re brought to that level with patience and care.

Look at endurance horses, for example. Granted that’s not the case here but it’s a great example of how horses can be brought to an incredible level of fitness and cheerfully trot down the trail (and canter from time to time, with relatively few breaks) for miles upon miles and hours upon hours. Some endurance horses have been doing it literally for years and are machines to be marveled at! My horse couldn’t begin to do that right now, nor would I begin to ask her to do that,

because…

it takes time to safely get to the point where you can do that without injury.

Personally, I ride my horse about an hour in her workouts. My lessons do frequently go over an hour. I incorporate plenty of walk breaks, but for uber fit horses I can see trotting long and low also relaxing them and stretching out the muscles. Lately, my horse is getting fit to the point that she’s sometimes still so eager to work at the end of our session (I can practically hear her say, “what? done already???”) that I feel guilty ending, but I don’t have the time to do super long workouts usually!

So, I don’t necessarily think that what you’re seeing is bad, but horses need to be brought to that level of work slowly and steadily to handle it, both mentally and physically. That’s the real question about the things you are seeing, and it’s hard to know (although many injured horses would indicate otherwise). More work doesn’t necessarily mean more wear and tear. It’s a matter of being fit enough for the work that is asked.

[nhwr]

It depends largely on your goals. If you want to progress up the levels and do well in competitions, an hour a day (with 1 day off a week) might be ok. If your horse is conditioned properly, they can (and arguably should) do more.

I think of riding in terms of training components; submission, cardio, strength, flexibility and balance. All these things feed into one another and should be considered as part of a training program. Achieving the desired results despite stress (like what happens at a show) and fatigue are the tests for the success of your program.

I don’t go into the arena and grind out collected trot for an hour solid. But if I wanted to train for the next level in the spring, I’d be riding intensely for at least 50 to 90 minutes a day.

Human athletes at the top of their game continuously devote several hours a day to physical conditioning. I am nowhere near that level of competitor but I work out 90 minutes every day. As mammals in the physical world, horses aren’t that different from us.

[quietann]

I think people have touched upon but not necessarily addressed the biggest issue most of us (especially AAs) have – time. Riding for an hour can feel like a lot to someone who has a full time job, family, has to drive to a boarding barn, or perhaps isn’t all that fit herself. Add in the before-and after-care of the horse, and it gets longer. I am super slow in that regard, and it can take me 45 minutes to get the horse and myself ready. A day when I am at the barn for 3 hours is a pretty efficient one.

In any case, I ride 5 days a week, for 45 minutes plus. I’d say we average around an hour; we have two lessons per week, one a half-hour (which is really not long enough), and one a half hour or sometimes an hour (which I prefer). This doesn’t include warm-up time; I try for 20 to 30 minutes of warm-up so we’re ready to learn when we get to our lesson. We take walk breaks but that’s for my sake as much as hers :lol: There are also times that after a lesson, we’ll go for a trail ride if there’s someone to go with, and that can be anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour more, but it’s pretty gentle usually. And some days we just trail ride.

Maresy is in good condition for a Training level dressage horse with a rider with, maybe, First Level ambitions. When she was eventing-fit she really needed much longer rides, more high speed work etc. and she was wound MUCH more tightly. For what I want to do, this “pleasure horse” level of fitness is fine.

[Cowgirl]

How long do regular workouts last?

The length of my workouts has changed as my horse has progressed and as her living circumstances changed. When she was younger, the workouts were shorter. Now that she is schooling FEI, I ride about an hour and a half at least three or four days a week, forty minutes to an hour on the first and last riding day of the week. There is a lot of walk. She is spending more time in a stall at the moment because the facility I am at does not turn out for more than two or three hours. So I like to give her longer rides, but do a longer, slower warming up and lots of walk.

How hard/long are your lessons?

I’m not sure what you are asking here. I always try to prepare for the learning part of the lesson. And then we do the learning part and push the horse to the edge of what it can do but not beyond. That is how they develop. I think of my rides as being composed of “sets”. I have a warming up set, one or two or three loosening sets, some preparatory exercises, a training set or two, a cool down set and a stretching set, for example. I try not to work the same things every day.

Do you take walk breaks?

Absolutely. Walk and how the horse responds to being allow to stretch and relax tells alot about how successful the prior set was. It is a reward.

What are your goals (are you actively trying to build stamina)?

Stamina? Not sure what you mean. Yes I want stamina, and strength, and fitness, and muscle development, and development of coordination, and carrying ability, and swing, etc. I am trying to meet the requirements of the training scale. For me, to try to build power in relaxation…very very difficult.

What is your rule of thumb for young horses vs. mature horses?

When my horse was young, and getting sufficient turnout/pasture time, I rode her less, mostly to develop balance, strength, coordination and trust. My rides lasted about 45 to 50 minutes. When we started really training for collection, my rides necessarily had to be longer. I still had to have the warming up phase and all those loosening phases, before training for collection–so I added TO what I was already doing and that lengthens the ride.

How/when do you determine when to vary ride length and difficulty?

I usually have a general plan for my ride and what I want to work on that day, but how my horse responds sometimes changes things. If she is stiff, for example, I might have to spend the entire ride on suppling with the goal of simply getting her really through…so that the next day I can have a super training ride. Training movements and difficult things is not very productive if your horse is not supple and through.

(If you answer these, then please include horse age and approximate level of training)

My horse is now nine years old. She is schooling FEI work–tempis through twos, pirouettes, piaffe/passage, half passes, etc. but increasing her self balance, suppleness, throughness is the most important part of it. She has never had a performance related injury and comes out of the stable really wanting to work every day. I rarely do any other type of riding than arena work, but I make sure that she gets out and lives like a horse.

I would not call riding for an hour and a half or so “overwork”. It all depends on what you are doing and how you are doing it.

[slc2]

The more work a horse gets, the better. The more frequent the work, the better. The more trotting and cantering, the better. The more CONSISTENT the work, the better. The more progressive the work, the better. The better the training techniques, the better. The better the facilities, footing etc, the better.

45 minutes to get ready?

The secret to riding frequently is that any one session doesn’t require 3 hours. Only a few people I know have 3 hours a day six days a week on a regular basis. Most have only an hour and a half.

The average working amateur has to make a decision. Does he want to ride in a concentrated, consistent way or not. If he does, he will be able to move up the levels without stressing his horse.

Some of my riding friends have small children. They HAVE to be done and get home.

Most of them are masters of efficiency. They find an appropriate barn near their home, they do not socialize at the barn, they blanket and clip to minimize grooming, they plain old get on and ride and ride in a concentrated, focused way, they cool out at a walk and can reblanket immediately and walk out the door. Most of those gals, they ride 6 days a week, and from the moment they walk in the door til the moment they leave is 45 minutes to one hour. The trick is that they spend 40-55 minutes riding.

NONE of these gals ‘neglect’ their horses or don’t ‘bond’ with them. The horses are perfectly happy. They get into a familiar routine and they do very well. There’s plenty of time in there for hugs, treats and a check over of the horse’s health and how their legs are, etc.

The best way to ‘make time for riding’ is to make the time for actual riding. There are a million ways to do that.

Clip the horse so cooling out and grooming time is less.

Blanket the horse to keep mud off and reduce grooming time.

Pay someone at the barn to tack up or cool the horse out, reblanket when cool, etc.

Board the horse at a stable with an indoor riding arena, with well maintained footing, so one can ride more often

Get properly fitting tack that is easy to put on

Avoid making the barn a place to socialize. Make it a place to work.

Make up a schedule and stick to it. Teach family members and friends that the schedule needs to be stuck to.

Take lessons. They have an amazing way of creating ‘homework’ and a goal in a given period of time.

Make a show or clinic as a goal. This has a way of focusing one and making a goal to reach.

Make each ride efficient and concentrated. Don’t drill or repeat things more than a couple times, ‘tomorrow is another day’. Don’t cover excess ground when making corrections, turn around and repeat a problem exercise immediately.

Don’t take long walk breaks in the middle of the ride, the horse has to go through the whole process of getting on the bit and through again and it’s a form of punishment, not really a rest or break. If one does walk, make it a working walk on the bit.

Select the right horse. An appropriate horse that fits the rider is a far, far more easy horse to maintain and ride.

Pick the right facility. What my friend calls a ‘Hot Water Barn’. Good facilities make one able to ride more often. Footing maintained, etc.

Stick to the program year round. The more consistent it is, the easier it is to maintain. Once it’s established the habit is far easier to maintain than it is to first begin it.

[retrofit]

What about the rider?

How long/intense/frequent are YOUR workouts? I don’t see most riders working out an hour+ 5-6 days/week.

I typically run 3 miles/day and it takes me about half an hour. Or I will walk 2.5 miles on steep hills - that’s about 45 min. but low intensity. Or I will do an abs & push-ups and that takes 15 min. I have lost 20% of my body weight this way (of course nutrition plays a huge role too) and I’m fitter & stronger than I’ve ever been - and I never workout for a whole hour.

A lot of riders don’t even bother to workout at all, yet they work their horses pretty aggressively. It seems to me that these riders are less likely to be sympathetic to the demands & stresses of physical activity than riders who are more active.

[MaximumChrome]

A young horse - as in 3 or 4 years old, shouldn’t work that much, but after that, the only way to get a horse fit enough for moving up the levels, advancing in their training is to consistently work them past their comfort zone. Stretch the muscles, stretch the mind. Walk breaks are needed in between, but for an FEI horse or FEI bound horse, working 1 hour or more 5 or 6 days a week is normal.

If you quit every time your horse gets tired, your horse will always get tired at the same time - you won’t advance in fitness or in training.