[QUOTE=Velvet;8523936]
Pfffftttt She doesn’t understand the meaning of the word if she said that.[/QUOTE]
If you don’t have something constructive to add, please stay off this thread. I’m getting very good information and I don’t want it to devolve.
Please, please- it is conFORmation, we seem to be discussing here, and its relationship to dressage suitability. It is not conFIRmation.
I confirm that I believe conformation effectively affects suitability!
[QUOTE=hoopoe;8523423]
Proper and progressing dressage training will build muscle. One does not have to condition the horse to start dressage, the progress and progression goes hand in hand
“Dressage” is French and means training. All riding is a form of training. You are teaching your horse something, for better or for worse, each time you ride.
When you work in the discipline of Dressage, you work at progressively improving the whole horse. As the horse progresses, the body will change.
There are body types that make a horse less athletic, but all horses and riders can benefit from the basic foundation of the concepts of dressage.[/QUOTE]
I think “discipline of dressage” is an excellent way of signifying that one is actively following the training scale formally.
Gestalt, it’s a good thing I had no coffee in my mouth when I read about your confirmation. Good laugh.
[QUOTE=Mnsn2Mzrt;8523770]
I have a morgan/QH 13 year old gelding. He’s MAYBE 15 hands, possibly 14.3. He has a skinny neck and no butt, which is one of the reasons I became interested in dressage, however, I have the feeling that his neck will tone with work, but his butt is just a breed thing. He’s also really clumsy. Yet another reason I’m seeking training. But I just got to thinking, does he just have no balance, or is he built wrong? He’s also always been barefoot. Would he benefit from shoes? And yes, he has an excellent attitude and is very smart. He has his quirks, but he also has a lot of patience with new things.[/QUOTE]
The discipline of dressage will gradually make any horse more beautiful, have a healthier posture and improve communication between horse and rider. It will also improve balance The training scale will build muscle the correct way readying the horse for the next step. It will improve balance and clumsiness .
In using shoes, it depends. If your horse is moving in an ouchy way , more sensitive feet will benefit from shoes. Do you think he’s uncomfortable on the ground he’s using? Otherwise barefoot is fine. Another reason would be to fix a chronic problem . Shoes should not be used to correct confirmation after the age of 2. A farrier can help with that decision.
Example, my horse toes out . One farrier wanted to fix it. I changed farriers because fixing toes out at 12 years old would eventually damage her legs. And that farrier would not stop correcting for toes out. Not a farrier I wanted.
[QUOTE=Velvet;8523936]
Pfffftttt She doesn’t understand the meaning of the word if she said that.[/QUOTE]
I take her statement to mean dressage training is good for all horses, but you must be cognizant of your horses limitations. Pushing a horse to do what it physically can’t is a bad thing in all disciplines.
[QUOTE=Mnsn2Mzrt;8523770]
I have a morgan/QH 13 year old gelding. He’s MAYBE 15 hands, possibly 14.3. He has a skinny neck and no butt, which is one of the reasons I became interested in dressage, however, I have the feeling that his neck will tone with work, but his butt is just a breed thing. He’s also really clumsy. Yet another reason I’m seeking training. But I just got to thinking, does he just have no balance, or is he built wrong? He’s also always been barefoot. Would he benefit from shoes? And yes, he has an excellent attitude and is very smart. He has his quirks, but he also has a lot of patience with new things.[/QUOTE]
Your horse sounds lovely! From your description, I don’t see any reason why your horse can’t do ‘dressage.’ The clumsiness (as long as it is not a medical problem) very well could be related to not great balance, but then again it could be that he just needs to pay attention better! I was leading a friend’s horse and he about face planted because he dove for grass without paying attention to where his feet were…
The excellent attitude, patience, and smarts definitely bode well for your horse! As far as if your horse needs shoes, there is no way to know without seeing your horse. My mare has been barefoot her entire life and unless I was going to do a lot of riding on gravel or fox hunting, I see no reason to (neither does my farrier). Her sire needs shoes on front or he is tender footed, but her dam is barefoot with no issues. My mare’s half sister never needed shoes either. I would ask your farrier and trainer what they think.
One thing to note, when looking for a dressage trainer be sure to look for one that thinks dressage is for all horses. Some trainer’s specialize in certain breed and may not be a good fit for your horse.
Good luck and have fun!
[QUOTE=merrygoround;8524194]
Please, please- it is conFORmation, we seem to be discussing here, and its relationship to dressage suitability. It is not conFIRmation.
I confirm that I believe conformation effectively affects suitability![/QUOTE]
Love you fellow grammar nazi!!
[QUOTE=TheHotSensitiveType;8524385]
Your horse sounds lovely! From your description, I don’t see any reason why your horse can’t do ‘dressage.’ The clumsiness (as long as it is not a medical problem) very well could be related to not great balance, but then again it could be that he just needs to pay attention better! I was leading a friend’s horse and he about face planted because he dove for grass without paying attention to where his feet were…
The excellent attitude, patience, and smarts definitely bode well for your horse! As far as if your horse needs shoes, there is no way to know without seeing your horse. My mare has been barefoot her entire life and unless I was going to do a lot of riding on gravel or fox hunting, I see no reason to (neither does my farrier). Her sire needs shoes on front or he is tender footed, but her dam is barefoot with no issues. My mare’s half sister never needed shoes either. I would ask your farrier and trainer what they think.
One thing to note, when looking for a dressage trainer be sure to look for one that thinks dressage is for all horses. Some trainer’s specialize in certain breed and may not be a good fit for your horse.
Good luck and have fun![/QUOTE]
Thank you, I’m quite fond of him! He has wonderfully strong feet, which is why I’ve always kept him barefoot. Gravel is torture, but that’s why I keep him off of it. And my trainer (though I’ve yet to meet her in person) shows ponies and appaloosas as well as warmbloods. Java (my baby) has fallen twice while running on even ground, and trips a lot if he’s looking sideways or otherwise distracted. It’s not neurological, I had that checked the second time he fell on me. I think he’s just a poo brain. But I do worry about it being a lack of muscle or balance issue.
Sound, healthy horses don’t typically trip a lot just because they’re not looking straight ahead, or while running on even ground. Both of you would likely be safer if you had (from perhaps another vet) a second opinion.
[QUOTE=WasthatC;8523917]
Your answer is partly correct.
I will admit I don’t understand what you achieve by placing competition dressage in quotes.
Dressage, by definition is a specific form of training. My horse (or any horse) is as adept at it in the schooling ring as in the competition ring and yes their confirmation plays a role in how good at it they can be.
But regardless of confirmation dressage is good for any horse as it will help develop musculature and fitness.
If someone is asking the questions that the OP did then a simple “any horse can begin schooling dressage and build muscle as it goes/advances” and leave it at that.[/QUOTE]
THankyou for taking the time to correct the way I wrote something. What would I do without you! In writing ‘competition’, I meant “discipline”, a much better word.
In the future I will run my replies through you to make sure that my replies are correct.
[
[QUOTE=Mnsn2Mzrt;8524419]
Thank you, I’m quite fond of him! He has wonderfully strong feet, which is why I’ve always kept him barefoot. Gravel is torture, but that’s why I keep him off of it. And my trainer (though I’ve yet to meet her in person) shows ponies and appaloosas as well as warmbloods. Java (my baby) has fallen twice while running on even ground, and trips a lot if he’s looking sideways or otherwise distracted. It’s not neurological, I had that checked the second time he fell on me. I think he’s just a poo brain. But I do worry about it being a lack of muscle or balance issue.[/QUOTE]
Based on what you’re saying, Normally horses do not fall down. I would have a vet examine him and take some xrays . His falling is dangerous. Something may be wrong.
As far as balance goes, I feel he needs some work that he needs to concentrate for. Ground poles, cavaletti, and something called a counted walk. It’s stopping all leg and seat aids, maintaining slight contact with the reins and allowing him to slow down to where he would stop but do not let him stop. If he does you can use leg to get him going. The reasoning behind this is that the slower a horse walks, the more balance is required. Very easy, works well.
[QUOTE=Velvet;8523936]
Pfffftttt She doesn’t understand the meaning of the word if she said that.[/QUOTE]
Well, at the risk of muddling the conversation with facts, here’s what Centerline Scores says about her:
Lynn Palm (8348)
4th Level (68.78%)
USDF Bronze Medal awarded on Sep 13, 2013 This rider has 2 out of 4 required qualifying rides for this USDF Silver Medal. This rider has 0 out of 4 required qualifying rides for this USDF Gold Medal.
I’m thinking she knows a boatload more than some. And this is not considering any of her AQHA accomplishments.
http://dressagetoday.com/article/eqpalm2820
Anyway, the point is that systematic training and gymnasticizing of a horse is beneficial to any horse, say as opposed to getting on and with no warmup yahooing about. However, not every horse is going to be able to progress to the highest levels of dressage and one must take into account the horse’s conformation.
[QUOTE=netg;8523967]
I don’t know enough about gaited horses to know if some have a conformation which prevents them having w/t/c gaits. If so, that would prevent a horse from doing true dressage work, as the gymnastic development through dressage work is developed for the mechanics of trot and canter, so will not have the same effects in other gaits.
Netg, I know that you are very very experienced in the discipline of dressage. I’m only writing this to reply to your comment about gaited horses in hopes that if someone is curious about gaited horses and dressage, this may help.
There is gaited dressage and competition. Dressage following the training scale is actually lacking in trot work, but teaches the same principles such as rhythm, roundness, on the aids, impulsion, etc. In return the exercises make a gaited horse much more correct in their gaits. Dressage improves gaited horses as well.
In my experience, my gaited horse has followed the training scale and become more beautiful and balanced and the gaits more pure. The altering is that instead of a trot, there’s a walk, a more impulsive faster walk, and a running walk, which is faster, but not shortening steps. In essence, any movements that any horse can do at a walk, a gaited horse can do at a walk, a faster tempo without shortening the stride and an even a faster walk.
So if any horse can do a perfect circle, shoulder in, haunches in, half pass, proper contact, collect as in lowering the haunches and carrying more weight on the haunches, lengthening and shortening stride, at a walk, a gaited horse can do. The horse cannot trot, but can increase impulsion, increase speed, etc. Because a gaited horse is a horse with a walk at recognized speeds.
My horse has learned a walk in place and a walk in half steps with more impulsion , upward lift, and haunches lowering. I think the walk in place was easier because a non gaited horse walks into a piaffe but has to then switch to a two beat walk with animation (for lack of a better word). We are working on getting more impulsion to add to the walk in place. She has such a good mind for what we do.
The difference in confirmation is that they normally reach farther forward with the hind legs, and have to lower their hind end to do it. They do canter and I’ve seen a gaited horse do canter tempi’s . I have not found a difference in gymnastic development yet.
To the OP, any horse can learn the discipline of dressage and benefit from it.
Sincerely, I appreciate those who posted about their horse’s conformation problems. It’s refreshing to read that most of us do have horses with conformation differences that make formal training more difficult.
Yes, as many posters have pointed out, there is “dressage” meaning systematic training that improves how the horse carries itself, and any horse that is rideably sound can benefit from that.
And then there is competing in dressage competitions, where both the training and the horse’s natural way of going contribute to the total effect that is being judged. If you have two horses trained to the same level, competing in the same competition and test level, but one has a naturally bigger gait and suspension, and the other one doesn’t, the one with the bigger gait will win.
That is the perspective from which someone would say that a horse has the conformation for dressage, because it has the conformation for the big suspended gaits.
It’s just like humans and sports or dance. Every one of us could probably benefit from yoga, or from a dance-based fitness class. Every one of us would come out fitter, more supple, a better version of ourselves (as long as we didn’t get injured in the process). But most of us, even after years of yoga, would not be able to twist ourselves into pretzels, while some folks can do that effortlessly at their first or second yoga class. And most of us don’t have the body type to become ballerinas.
Same for horses. Every horse can benefit from dressage training carried out slowly and correctly, with attention to his level of fitness and his physical limitations. Dressage can correct posture and some conformation faults, and help the horse adapt to other faults. But not every horse is going to be win in the ring, if it doesn’t have the natural gaits.
Scribbler, I wish we could have words to specify the difference between the dressage discipline, competition dressage, classical , French light, the art of dressage, etc. I find myself worried about using the correct name if there is any or what I say isn’t what I meant.
Or maybe it’s just better to include a reason, like I practice dressage for completion, or I practice dressage to improve me and my horse, or ride properly, or I practice dressage to improve my chances of roping that steer…
[QUOTE=princessfluffybritches;8524483]
[
Based on what you’re saying, Normally horses do not fall down. I would have a vet examine him and take some xrays . His falling is dangerous. Something may be wrong.
As far as balance goes, I feel he needs some work that he needs to concentrate for. Ground poles, cavaletti, and something called a counted walk. It’s stopping all leg and seat aids, maintaining slight contact with the reins and allowing him to slow down to where he would stop but do not let him stop. If he does you can use leg to get him going. The reasoning behind this is that the slower a horse walks, the more balance is required. Very easy, works well.[/QUOTE]
This is precisely what I hope to accomplish by starting dressage.
OP, if your horse fell at liberty, I’m not so concerned, but if the horse trips or has fallen with you up, I would definitely urge you to tread with some caution. Having the horse fall while ridden is the most dangerous kind of accident, and at the very least, consider wearing a helmet.
Also be aware that a horse that has fallen may have pulled a muscle or otherwise might need a layup or some massage therapy.
That said, a horse like yours seems a very good candidate for dressage work and improving his musculature.
If you have concerns about his agility with you up, I’d also suggest ground work both in hand and on a lunge line. There is much you can do with these tools and it will allow you to observe the horse and possibly help you understand if he has an issue that needs attention and how to proceed with it.
I do hope you have your horse checked out. It is dangerous for him to fall. 
The last time he fell with me on him was 5 years ago. He trips occasionally, but I haven’t ran him at full speed since the last time he fell. I don’t fall off of Java, Java falls off of Java. It is so good to keep hearing about the potential benefits. This is exactly what I was hoping for when I started looking for a trainer. I expect dressage to greatly change the both of us.
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
