Is there a conformation that CAN'T do dressage?

[MysticOakRanch]

[QUOTE=Countrywood;8529850]
That is true, people have conformation differences, with some conformation better suited for riding or certain disciplines than others.

But assuming two people with equivalent build and proportions and same years riding access to same trainer, why is one a better dressage rider than another? It’s timing, focus, ability, as well as endurance and energy level.

The longer I live the more I see success as willingness to endure discomfort and frustration. Sure dressage can be rewarding and sublime, but it can also be exhausting, frustrating and hard on the body. I made the mistake when starting out in it thinking it would be easy since all they were doing was going in circles ( how it looked at the time)

I think the same is true of horses, those who thrive in any discipline including dressage have the needed endurance and energy and can take a certain amount of discomfort in training (not rider imposed discomfort but the discomfort of being asked to do more than they would do in a less demanding mode)[/QUOTE]

Absolutely, just like with horses - too that are very similar in build may be very different in ability. It is a combination of innate talent, which is probably a mix of SO many things. Natural flexibility (which is probably partly just the way our fascia works, combined with our muscle tone?), natural tone, natural balance, and of course, our brains willingness to work through difficulty (including discomfort). And I agree, this relates to horses too. Top athletes have the whole package and ESPECIALLY the mental drive.

I know people who have the ability - but not the motivation. Always very envious of those with talent, and sad to see it wasted - but just like with horses - not everyone has the drive, it isn’t sad to them.

[stryder]

Trainability is an important issue for both the horse and rider. Some riders aren’t willing to put in the time or training to learn to ride well. They want to pass off responsibility for their failure to progress, or slow progress, to the saddle, the horse, their trainer. Being able to ride well isn’t for sale, and for most people, isn’t easy. It takes some work.

[atlatl]

[QUOTE=stryder;8529912]
Trainability is an important issue for both the horse and rider. Some riders aren’t willing to put in the time or training to learn to ride well. They want to pass off responsibility for their failure to progress, or slow progress, to the saddle, the horse, their trainer. Being able to ride well isn’t for sale, and for most people, isn’t easy. It takes some work.[/QUOTE]

It takes a lot of work

[princessfluffybritch]

[QUOTE=CFFarm;8529629]
LOL! Our specialty at the track. “He’s a problem…give him to the girls”. I’ve had a soft spot for this type ever since too.[/QUOTE]

I think it takes a special kind of person to work with OTTB, or TB’s. I remember giving lessons to a woman with one and an 18 year old boy who had 2. With all 3 TB’s it was a matter of letting them run away with you in a big ring until they realized that was harder than paying attention on a circle. The boy was fine with it, a good kid. The woman would go shrieking around until she got dumped which was once a week. When they got to the point of a solid training level, she went on to lessons with a wealthy locally famous woman who was a half owner to Graf George. One day this woman tells me that this trainer asked her to train for the Olympics with her! I realized she was a chronic liar and dc’d the relationship.

I think you have to be real creative to get horses like OTTB’s, which are only taught MOL to run fast, and run out of energy. Even walking on a circle and relaxing is something they don’t understand and have some anxiety about. It takes a lot of patience to wait wait wait until they realize it’s really not that bad, LOL.

Someone mentioned having timing and coordination , some more than others. I think you also need feel that gets developed to the point of timing and coordination becoming feel , or the other way around, not just a rider’s response, but a rider’s feel of what the horse is thinking of doing before he actually does it.

I think that every circle, every correctly ridden corner, every transition, keeping the horse straight, serpentines, then shoulder in is actually training to collection (and submission) . Not “let’s work on collection today”. It just happens with correctly riding these movements.

[Scribbler]

OP, is your horse the same one in the photos on your other post about choosing a saddle? If so, I’d say he looks to me like he has a fairly straight shoulder. From these photos, it looks like he does hold his head high quite often, but he is holding it “upside down” or “inverted.” He is doing so in two of the photos (in another he is stretching down quite nicely). And we can see by the muscle development that this is a habitual posture for him because his throat muscles (the underside of his neck) are overdeveloped and bulgy, while the muscles along the top of his neck are underdeveloped.

I can’t tell from the photos where his neck actually ties in, but often this kind of high neck carriage goes along with a neck bone that actually enters the body relatively low on the shoulder. So you can have a horse that has a low set neck in terms of skeleton, but a high, though upside down, head carriage.

A horse that holds his neck upside down is usually also going hollow in the back, which strains the back and makes it harder for him to get his back legs fully engaged. Wild horses can move like this without doing any damage, but a horse under saddle needs to lift its back and engage the hindquarters in order to carry a rider without too much stress.

I think your horse would definitely benefit from basic dressage exercises to get him to stretch his neck down and out to the bit, lift the back, and develop some abdominal strength.

I just came across this blog post that might be interesting to you:

https://christinakeim.wordpress.com/2015/12/08/hilary-clayton-biomechanical-interactions-amongst-the-rider-the-tack-and-the-horse/

You might also find Deb Bennett’s website Equine Studies Institute useful. She has a good book on functional conformation, too. Her blog is pretty much dormant now but has lots of good threads on these topics if you search.

http://www.equinestudies.org/

[Velvet]

[QUOTE=princessfluffybritches;8530032]
I think it takes a special kind of person to work with OTTB, or TB’s. I remember giving lessons to a woman with one and an 18 year old boy who had 2. With all 3 TB’s it was a matter of letting them run away with you in a big ring until they realized that was harder than paying attention on a circle. The boy was fine with it, a good kid. The woman would go shrieking around until she got dumped which was once a week. When they got to the point of a solid training level, she went on to lessons with a wealthy locally famous woman who was a half owner to Graf George. One day this woman tells me that this trainer asked her to train for the Olympics with her! I realized she was a chronic liar and dc’d the relationship.

I think you have to be real creative to get horses like OTTB’s, which are only taught MOL to run fast, and run out of energy. Even walking on a circle and relaxing is something they don’t understand and have some anxiety about. It takes a lot of patience to wait wait wait until they realize it’s really not that bad, LOL.

Someone mentioned having timing and coordination , some more than others. I think you also need feel that gets developed to the point of timing and coordination becoming feel , or the other way around, not just a rider’s response, but a rider’s feel of what the horse is thinking of doing before he actually does it.

I think that every circle, every correctly ridden corner, every transition, keeping the horse straight, serpentines, then shoulder in is actually training to collection (and submission) . Not “let’s work on collection today”. It just happens with correctly riding these movements.[/QUOTE]

Actually, I think it’s more about appreciating what they already know and using that as a starting point. Most OTTBs I’ve retrained all wanted to just understand the new “game” – not run off at warp speed.