Is there a difference between Western Dressage and Cowboy Dressage?

I attended a clinic for Cowboy Dressage at Equine Affaire over the weekend because I love dressage and used to take lessons, but I have switched to riding western on the trail. I thought Western Dressage would be the perfect mix, but the clinic I saw for Cowboy Dressage was disappointing. The horse, a lovely Morgan, had gaits with short mincing steps–not like pure, natural, dressage gaits at all.

So was it the discipline, that specific clinician, the horse, or what? I guess I should look up some WD sites and check out some videos. I definitely don’t want my horse in some short-strided, mincing gait, even if she would be willing to go that way, which I’m sure she wouldn’t. :confused:

I suspect that it was the specific clinician and/or horse. As far as I know, short-strided mincing gaits are not a goal of Cowboy Dressage.

But, Cowboy Dressage and Western Dressage are distinctly different things. Western Dressage, as promoted by the WDAA (http://www.westerndressageassociation.org/), is the one that is most common now and the one endorsed/recognized by USEF. It seems to me that Cowboy Dressage (which is a trademarked term) is something that is more closely tied to a specific individual (Eitan Beth-Halachmy).

However, since western dressage is so new, I think there is a strong need for people who are interested in getting involved to be informed consumers. If you see a new clinician or trainer doing/promoting western dressage, don’t just accept that they are “doing it right.” You need to educate yourself on the principles and ideals of the WDAA (or Cowboy Dressage) and decide if what that particular trainer or clinician is doing makes sense in that context.

I also saw that guy with the Morgan, although only at the Fantasia, not in the clinic. Very cute horse. That being said, anyone can call anything dressage. That does not make it dressage. IMO, what this guy did, at least what I saw, was not dressage.

[QUOTE=NoSuchPerson;7530409]

But, Cowboy Dressage and Western Dressage are distinctly different things. Western Dressage, as promoted by the WDAA (http://www.westerndressageassociation.org/), is the one that is most common now and the one endorsed/recognized by USEF. It seems to me that Cowboy Dressage (which is a trademarked term) is something that is more closely tied to a specific individual (Eitan Beth-Halachmy).[/QUOTE]

That’s right. Cowboy Dressage is Beth-Halachmy’s own personal training thing. in addition, his tests/ring have poles in them plain ol’ Western Dressage does not.

With these new, perhaps well-intentioned disciplines, “take what you like and the leave the rest” really applies.

I have been sitting on the fence about Eitan’s Cowboy Dressage, since the way I train kindof fits, until I saw a post on his FB page linking to an article written by people associated with extreme enviro/wacko groups siding with the feds over the Cliven Bundy blm case.
You would think that something that uses and exploits the term cowboy would uphold all things cowboy, ie, western traditions, which include such ideas as personal independence and freedom and self governing and stewardship etc. Open land, grazing cattle, that made the western horse what he is… There is nothing cowboy about Cowboy Dressage, it’s just another horse show…
After a lot of outcry, they took the link down and all the comments against it.
But too late for me. He can shove is organization, until I hear different.

^^^

IMO, one should not mix politics and horse training.

If you looked at the history of ranching in this country, you might find plenty of attitudes and commitments you wouldn’t like. “All things cowboy” aren’t necessarily next to God and cleanliness.

I don’t see why anyone would open that can of worms…. just over a modern way of riding a horse for fun and entertainment.

Again, “take what you like and leave the rest” will serve everyone well.

There ‘aint nothing about Cowboy when he steals peoples’ work, and a few BIG names to boot, and claim it as his own…just putting Cowboy Dressage into the wording.
Just proves his intentions and his knowledge. IMO
I won’t even go there with the Head to Tail gadget to promote bending and suppleness.

[QUOTE=Elatu;7532729]
There ‘aint nothing about Cowboy when he steals peoples’ work, and a few BIG names to boot, and claim it as his own…just putting Cowboy Dressage into the wording.
Just proves his intentions and his knowledge. IMO
I won’t even go there with the Head to Tail gadget to promote bending and suppleness.[/QUOTE]

Classy dig from the head of Canadian Western Dressage.

[QUOTE=aktill;7533403]
Classy dig from the head of Canadian Western Dressage.[/QUOTE]
As I understand it, in Canada it is referred to a “western-style dressage” and it is a “not-for-profit”…and I am not clear on how a “not-for-profit” is a discipline. ??? And I guess that makes it unclear as to whether there truly is a “Canadian Western Dressage” and who is the head of it.

But all those things aside, I take your point aktill.

I am entitled to my own opinion, just like anyone else on here. As I clearly made it that. It has nothing to do with anyone but is my OWN opinion, and not anyone else’s.
WD is WD in Canada. WSD is the association. Not by anyone’s choice but the Federal Government when the association was registered.

To answer the OP, it really depends on what you’re looking for. You sound like a dressage rider who wants to use western tack, so my suspicion is that you’d better suit the WD side of things. Even then, be very careful given there are lots of dressage instructors playing cowboy dress up, so keep in mind you’ll be learning with that slant. There are some people who’ve managed to seem far more qualified than they are by teaching to a crowd with little dressage education – (ie) they wouldn’t get away with that in the normal dressage world.

If you actually want to learn to properly use western specific tack (western curbs/spades/hackamores), you’re slightly more likely to find good help in the CD camp. Eitan and instructors with his mindset are really only teaching “western” habits in as much as the old cowboy westerns ala Will Rogers are western – far more showy and “singing cowboy” oriented. If you really want good, educated, working cowboy education, look up the Sanders family (Katrina and Jeff). They’re teaching things that aren’t strictly limited to being useful in the show pen, rather than most whose teaching would break down if you tried to use it working cattle outside for 10 hours.

In both groups, avoid the people who are slanted to the western pleasure side of the gait spectrum, or who are convinced they’re bringing the light of dressage to the unwashed western masses. I’d also look for folks who can play nice with others.

WD and CD are doing great things to boost attendance at dressage shows, but as to whether they’re making better western horses, I’m not really very convinced. Little would hold up doing things that working cowboys would do in the fields. There are better places to find that (the California Bridlehorse Association for ex), but not everybody’s looking for that.

Meant to add - there are great folks in both camps too! Jec Ballou is fantastic on the WD side as well. Look for folks who you click with and who make happy horses. The horses tell the true story.

[QUOTE=Elatu;7533503]
WD is WD in Canada. WSD is the association. Not by anyone’s choice but the Federal Government when the association was registered.[/QUOTE]
Registered as a not-for-profit corp or as a Charity??

Government aside as registration is usually done for tax purposes…where does EC sit on “Western Dressage” as a recognized discipline??

Just asking for clarity given the above reference to a “head of Western Dressage in Canada”…and it is my understanding that Western Dressage does not exist as entity in Canada…however “western-style dressage” does and it is a not-for-profit business.

I’ve had Morgans for almost 40 years. They are bred for up and down; knee action.

As with any sport, being built to do the job is the most effective way to be good at that job: tall and play basketball; fast and run track. Not all horses have the conformation for freely forward or even change within gaits.

I think for more western show Morgans than not, western dressage won’t be more than a pattern class.

[QUOTE=ezduzit;7554181]
I’ve had Morgans for almost 40 years. They are bred for up and down; knee action.

As with any sport, being built to do the job is the most effective way to be good at that job: tall and play basketball; fast and run track. Not all horses have the conformation for freely forward or even change within gaits.

I think for more western show Morgans than not, western dressage won’t be more than a pattern class.[/QUOTE]

I speak not as a major Morgan fan. I find your first sentence quite inaccurate. Morgans come in many packages, as they were originally bred as an all around using riding horse.

I know of one that is totally wasted as a western pleasure/trail horse, as his natural gaits are lovely for dressage. Another made a wonderful show hunter.
While another does wonders driving,and os moving to combined driving. And then there are :sigh: the ring bound gaited Morgans. :wink:

Back to Western Dressage, and its many directions.

^^^

What you say about the variability of the Morgans is true. But IIRC, it has been a segment of the Morgan Show World that bankrolled the invention of WD. It might be fair, then, to worry that those folks will bend the meaning of Dressage (or Western Riding, for that matter) to the standards of the modern show ring Morgan. And my impression of that horse was that it was bred to answer to the American Saddle Bred and its world.

You can see just how great a distance might lie between what the early enthusiasts of WD know/expect/have work with in the way of horses, and Dressage or Western.

At the moment, it is unlikely that Morgan dressage will do any such thing,because Morgan shows use USEF judges for their dressage classes.